Itachi vs Aizen

TheFinalOrder · Apr 19, 2018

Location: Fake Karakura Town

SoM: In character w/ Intent to kill

Note: This is EDO Itachi vs EoS Aize

Speed Equal

Starting Distance: 2 meters away

Scenario 1: As soon as the Match starts, Itachi casts Tsukuyomi and Aizen casts Kyoka Suigetsu. Both are hit at the same time. Starting from here, the fight starts, who wins?

Scenario 2: They have complete knowledge of each others powers and abilities. The match starts without them casting anything first. Who takes it?

Aizen:

Itachi:

IC:

TheFinalOrder · Apr 19, 2018

Benjamin_Ben_Israel · May 8, 2018

'''''Bump.'''''

Celestial_Judge · May 8, 2018

1st scenario is a stalemate 2nd scenario Itachi because he's reanimated so his body would just regenerate after every attack.

Onracol · May 9, 2018

How is Itachi going to even hurt Aizen?

In the first scenario, there are too many variables to say what happens. Kyoka Suigetsu alters senses to an extreme level, but so does Tsukuyomi. Aizen does have the Hogyoku and Zanpakuto to snap him out, but I won't go there.

Scenario 1: Inconclusive; both trapped (I won't make the Zanpakuto and Hogyoku argument).

In the second scenario, Aizen automatically places Itachi under perfect hypnosis since this is also in character. Aizen has always placed everyone under hypnosis at first sight (examples are the Vizards, Yhwach, Captains etc). With that being said, Itachi won't even touch him especially with the huge DC, and Durability advantage that Aizen has. Not to mention a huge arsenal of Kido that will seal him. With Itachi's durability at city level, then Aizen will delete him with a casual Hado 90. In this forum, it states that Itachi is "extremely hard to kill" in Edo, so he isn't unkillable; therefore, Aizen will easily kill him with a Hado 90.

Scenario 2: Aizen; deletes with a continent level Kido.

Burning_Full_Fingers · May 9, 2018

Yep, pretty sure Aizen would casually kill him.

Rocker1189 · May 9, 2018

I personaly disagree about scenario 1. I dont think Aizen's KS is nearly as potent as people make it out to be, literally no one in Bleach has any actual resistance to mind manipulation. Like seriously fodder Kabuto was able to put a whole stadium to sleep with genjutsu. I say scenario 1 goes handily to Itachi. He would break out of KS (if ever trapped in the first place). Most likely Aizen would look in his eyes first. And he is instantly in Itachi's Tsukuyomi without ever knowing it. Even if he realizes there is literally nothing he can do.

Scenario 2 they both know of each other's abilities. Aizen has the advantage for sure because of the fact it would be a straight up fight. Itachi would never get put under KS. (Even if he does I am sure he would break out). Itachi could possibly win if he even nicks Aizen with the Totsuka blade but that is unlikely. So that definitely goes to Aizen. There is the argument that Itachi could put him under genjutsu by pointing though. But it is not the type that saves Itachi from collateral damage unlike Tsukuyomi.

Final answer:

I think Aizen's KS is overrated when comparing to other verses that have mind manipulation of any form. It is only powerful in the bleach setting and controlling the 5 senses is literally fodder level genjutsu in Naruto.

Round 1: Itachi. mid-diff.

Round 2: Aizen. easy-diff.

LordGinSama · May 9, 2018

KS is definitely not fodder level Genjutsu, that's extreme downplay and we both know it. Also I doubt Itachi is gonna break out of KS whenever it effects all 5 senses and can work on people with enhanced senses for years on end. Even if the victim is aware of the hypnosis they still can't escape it.

Aizen takes both rounds.

Rocker1189 · May 9, 2018

Knightofannihilation666 said:
KS is definitely not fodder level Genjutsu, that's extreme downplay and we both know it. Also I doubt Itachi is gonna break out of KS whenever it effects all 5 senses and can work on people with enhanced senses for years on end.

Aizen takes both rounds.

Affecting the 5 senses is the basics of genjutsu dude. KS has no actually good feats unlike high level genjutsu. I would not say it is fodder level I admit. But it has no actually good showings (as in against people that can resist any sort of mind manipulation, or against a huge number of peole).

Itachi can beat it 100% unless you can bring a good example for KS. I believe you are wrong about scenario 1.

Enhanced senses does not give you mind resistance either.

Burning_Full_Fingers · May 9, 2018

Well, we all know how this is going to go down.

Rocker1189 · May 9, 2018

Knightofannihilation666 said:
Even if the victim is aware of the hypnosis they still can't escape it.

Only because they have no one with mind resistance.

Burning_Full_Fingers · May 9, 2018

For me, Round 1 is a tossup, but Aizen babyshakes in Round 2.

Rocker1189 · May 9, 2018

I still want actual reasons for round 1 being a toss-up tbh, no one has any good arguments for Aizen's KS to be nearly as good as Itachi's which exists in a setting where controlling the 5 senses is the basics of mind manipulation.

TheFinalOrder · May 9, 2018

There is a reason I said EoS Aizen. Thanks to the "suit", not the "chair", Aizen has holes in his reiatsu. With Sharingan, Itachi would clearly see the holes him his reiatsu and attack him there. So, despite the huge Tier Disadvantage, Aizen can still be harmed.

Rocker1189 · May 9, 2018

TheFinalOrder said:
There is a reason I said EoS Aizen. Thanks to the "suit", not the "chair", Aizen has holes in his reiatsu. With Sharingan, Itachi would clearly see the holes him his reiatsu and attack him there. So, despite the huge Tier Disadvantage, Aizen can still be harmed.

He can but he can also easily harm Itachi. He also has too much hax for Itachi to deal with. And none of Itachi's normal ttacks would be enough. He would need to use Susanoo and Totsuka blade. And really the Totsuka blade iis the only thing that stops Aizen from completely wiping Itachi in round 2.

Onracol · May 9, 2018

Rocker1189 said:
Knightofannihilation666 said:

KS is definitely not fodder level Genjutsu, that's extreme downplay and we both know it. Also I doubt Itachi is gonna break out of KS whenever it effects all 5 senses and can work on people with enhanced senses for years on end.

Aizen takes both rounds.

Click to expand...

Affecting the 5 senses is the basics of genjutsu dude. KS has no actually good feats unlike high level genjutsu. I would not say it is fodder level I admit. But it has no actually good showings (as in against people that can resist any sort of mind manipulation, or against a huge number of peole).
Itachi can beat it 100% unless you can bring a good example for KS. I believe you are wrong about scenario 1.

Enhanced senses does not give you mind resistance either.

Genjutsu is resisted via Chakra manipulation. Kyoka Suigetsu affects people's senses directly and thus, IItachi can't escape via chakra manipulation since it does not attack chakra. Regardless, Itachi has tsukoyomi which bypasses the need to attack Chakra, so its a moot point. Anyways, saying Kyoka Suigetsu has no good feats is ignoring the fact that somsone who is capable of seeing the future was tricked heavily by Aizen simple moving around him. When you're under KS, you are not aware of it like you are of Genjutsu. KS happens without you knowing and it will seem as if you're winning until you realise your getting back stabbed.

Anyways, I want to know why you think Itachi is going to take down Aizen when their difference in power is massive (7B vs 6A). Itachi is not winning either one of the scnearios. Given the amoutn of variable that we need to take into account for the first scneario, its easily inconclusive.

Burning_Full_Fingers · May 9, 2018

I don't know about KS vs Tsukuyomi or whatever, just not sure if Itachi will be unaffected by KS, and I'm not interested in going further because it's clear what's going to happen.

Knightofannihilation666 said:
Whenever it effects all 5 senses and can work on people with enhanced senses for years on end. Even if the victim is aware of the hypnosis they still can't escape it.

That's what genjutsu in Naruto sort of does though. But I can't remember how long Obito controlled Yagura for.

LordGinSama · May 9, 2018

As On explained the mechanics are very different. KS attacks and effects the mind and the 5 senses itself. Also I'm curious as to where all these head Canon anti feats for KS are. Scans would be nice.

Rocker1189 · May 9, 2018

Onracol said:
Affecting the 5 senses is the basics of genjutsu dude. KS has no actually good feats unlike high level genjutsu. I would not say it is fodder level I admit. But it has no actually good showings (as in against people that can resist any sort of mind manipulation, or against a huge number of peole).
Itachi can beat it 100% unless you can bring a good example for KS. I believe you are wrong about scenario 1.

Enhanced senses does not give you mind resistance either.

Genjutsu is resisted via Chakra manipulation. Kyoka Suigetsu affects people's senses directly and thus, IItachi can't escape via chakra manipulation since it does not attack chakra. Regardless, Itachi has tsukoyomi which bypasses the need to attack Chakra, so its a moot point. Anyways, saying Kyoka Suigetsu is ignoring the fact that somsone who is capable of seeing the future was tricked heavily by Aizen simple moving around him. When you're under KS, you are not aware of it like you are of Genjutsu. KS happens without you knowing and it will seem as if you're winning until you realise your getting back stabbed.

Anyways, I want to know why you think Itachi is going to take down Aizen when their difference in power is massive (7B vs 6A). Itachi is not winning either one of the scnearios. Given the amoutn of variable that we need to take into account for the first scneario, its easily inconclusive.

Yes that is ture about genjutsu but actually I argue that does the fact that you dont affect their chakra not play to the favour of the ninja? It means that chakra is free to do whatever it wants. And can likely allow then to see through his mind tricks since it does not affect theri chakra. Remember his KS is not mind control or mind jacking or anything like that. It essentially affects youer mind to make you see what he wants you to see. I am sure if for example they can see his reiatsu with chakra they would still be able to see him if he uses KS to trick them. Or can pronbabaly use their chakra to take back direct control of their mind sort of like what Sasuke did when he absorbed Orochimaru.

As for how he can harm him. He has killed someone by making them age in their mind till their own mind literally killed them in seconds(ofcourse Aizen is immortal, but I mean he can probably make his mind think of someway to die, but unlikely anyway). Or he can use the Totsuke blade to seal him.

Rocker1189 · May 9, 2018

Knightofannihilation666 said:
As On explained the mechanics are very different. KS attacks and effects the mind and the 5 senses itself. Also I'm curious as to where all these head Canon anti feats for KS are. Scans would be nice.

Head canon anti feats? Like what? I dont think I have cited any anti-feats for it. I have simply compared it to genjutsu. And I have simply said what it has not done.

Burning_Full_Fingers · May 9, 2018

Round 2? Aizen doesn't even need to move to destroy Itachi and his Susanoo.

Rocker1189 · May 9, 2018

Yeah round 2 is definitely a win for Aizen I dont think anyone is arguing that lol.

Burning_Full_Fingers · May 9, 2018

Wait, what about Izanami? If we say Itachi successfully uses it on Aizen, can he safely resist its effects?

Rocker1189 · May 9, 2018

Burning Full Fingers said:
Wait, what about Izanami? If we say Itachi successfully uses it on Aizen, can he safely resist its effects?

Izanami is Tsukuyomi but waaaay better and does not require eye contact. And I forgot about it lol.

Onracol · May 9, 2018

Rocker1189, I don't want to quote your entire message, but you're very mistaken of how Kyoka Suigetsu works. Aizen doesn't make you see what he wants you to see. For example, Aizen wasn't aware of what Yhwach was seeing. All Aizen did was activate his hypnosis and Yhwach was perceiving what he thought was reality. As we know, from the scan i linked, Aizen didn't know what Yhwach was seeing, so its literally mind jacking and not Aizen making you see things. Can Aizen do that, yes he can as we saw in the Fake karakura Town Arc, but it still has a passive ability.

Rocker1189 · May 9, 2018

How does that disprove that it basically makes people see illusions? And if he does not know what the person is seeing that makes it worse. You literally disproved nothing..

Dzhindzholia · May 9, 2018

Ok,let me start the shitstorm...

Why Aizen gets round 2?Itachi has a chance to cast different type of genjutsu,it is in character to start every single fight with genjutsu and i don't see resistance to mind manipulation and illusion creation in Aizen's profile.

He has cool abilities and i am not knowledgeble in Aizen's abilites but how is he going to escape genjutsu in the beginning of the fight?

Rocker1189 · May 9, 2018

Dzhindzholia said:
Ok,let me start the shitstorm...
Why Aizen gets round 2?Itachi has a chance to cast different type of genjutsu,it is in character to start every single fight with genjutsu and i don't see resistance to mind manipulation and illusion creation in Aizen's profile.

He has cool abilities and i am not knowledgeble in Aizen's abilites but how is he going to escape genjutsu in the beginning of the fight?

Cause he knows about every genjutsu Itachi has and would not look into his eyes.

Also I dont want to argue much more because I remember what happened with Cell lol. It is also why after remembering Izanami I dont want to say much lol.

Onracol · May 9, 2018

In regards to the "making them age" argument, considering Aizen has longevity via the Hogyoku, it won;t even work on him. Let's not forget Aizen's intellegence and strong emotional state. Mind tricks won't work on him. As stated in data bnook 3:unmasked, Aizen can see through the personality as well as the intentions of others instantly upon first glance.

Rocker1189 · May 9, 2018

Onracol said:
In regards to the "making them age" argument, considering Aizen has longevity via the Hogyoku, it won;t even work on him. Let's not forget Aizen's intellegence and strong emotional state. Mind tricks won't work on him. As stated in data bnook 3:unmasked, Aizen can see through the personality as well as the intentions of others instantly upon first glance.

But yes the aging point was a moot point it was just about how potent it is. That is all not mind resistance cmon man. Seeing through intent or personality means nothing. It means nothing he has no way to escape Tsukuyomi that literally creates a reality in your mind. Tsukuyomi is extremely potent it is not just illusions or mind tricks. It is literally a world created in your head that is controlled by Itachi.

Onracol · May 9, 2018

Rocker1189 said:
Onracol said:

In regards to the "making them age" argument, considering Aizen has longevity via the Hogyoku, it won;t even work on him. Let's not forget Aizen's intellegence and strong emotional state. Mind tricks won't work on him. As stated in data bnook 3:unmasked, Aizen can see through the personality as well as the intentions of others instantly upon first glance.

Click to expand...

But yes the aging point was a moot point it was just about how potent it is.
That is all not mind resistance cmon man. It means nothing he has no way to escape Tsukuyomi that literally creates a reality in your mind. Tsukuyomi is extremely potent it is not just illusions or mind tricks. It is literally a world created in your head that is controlled by Itachi.

You said it yourself. It makes you think like you're aging. How is that going to work on an immortal with longevity? How is that even going to work on Aizen who is extremely stable in regards to emotions point is, in scenario one, Itachi can't kill Aizen. it's an impossibility.

Onracol · May 9, 2018

Rocker1189 said:
How does that disprove that it basically makes people see illusions? And if he does not know what the person is seeing that makes it worse. You literally disproved nothing..

It proves that you don't know how KS works. You said Aizen is the one that controls illusions and i disapproved that by explaining how its more versatile than that.

Rocker1189 · May 9, 2018

Onracol said:
You said it yourself. It makes you think like you're aging. How is that going to work on an immortal with longevity? How is that even going to work on Aizen who is extremely stable in regards to emotions point is, in scenario one, Itachi can't kill Aizen. it's an impossibility.

Reread what I just wrote I said I know it is a moot point I was just talking about its potency and level of mnid control to make people age in their mind.

He does not need to kill him he can seal him in the Totsuka blade while he is under Tsukuyomi I have said that several times.

Onracol · May 9, 2018

Dzhindzholia said:
Ok,let me start the shitstorm...
Why Aizen gets round 2?Itachi has a chance to cast different type of genjutsu,it is in character to start every single fight with genjutsu and i don't see resistance to mind manipulation and illusion creation in Aizen's profile.

He has cool abilities and i am not knowledgeble in Aizen's abilites but how is he going to escape genjutsu in the beginning of the fight?

Aizen can escape via sword spirit and Hogyoku, but again, i won;t argue that. Its inconclusive for that reason. Neither can escape one's illusions.

Mindovin · May 9, 2018

Itachi could torture him decades maybe even centuries with Tsukuyomi while in the real world it only count as seconds and this Itachi has experience with Tsukuyomi and there is no chakra shortage problem.

Not a vote.

Rocker1189 · May 9, 2018

He can not escape via sword spirit or the Hogyoku wtf.Itachi put Naruto who had Kurama in him under a genjutsu he could not break. Sword spitrit is useless. Show me how and dont make up abilities for him. And no I believe his KS is not potent enough or at the very list even if it works with Itachi having direct control on his mind he can make him release it.

Onracol · May 9, 2018

Rocker1189 said:
Onracol said:

You said it yourself. It makes you think like you're aging. How is that going to work on an immortal with longevity? How is that even going to work on Aizen who is extremely stable in regards to emotions point is, in scenario one, Itachi can't kill Aizen. it's an impossibility.

Click to expand...

Reread what I just wrote I said I know it is a moot point I was just talking about its potency and level of mnid control to make people age in their mind.
He does not need to kill him he can seal him in the Totsuka blade while he is under Tsukuyomi I have said that several times.

You're forgetting Itachi is under Kyoka Suigetsu. You're making it seem as if Aizen is just sitting there doing nothing and he'll wait for Itachi to hit him without utilising Kido or his sword. Too many scenarios and variables hence why it is still inconclusive. Itachi has never shown to be able to seal people at Aizen's level anyway. Reitasu blocks abilities when they are inferior as we saw soi fon's one shot ability failing to work.

Rocker1189 · May 9, 2018

Onracol said:
You're forgetting Itachi is under Kyoka Suigetsu. You're making it seem as if Aizen is just sitting there doing nothing and he'll wait for Itachi to hit him without utilising Kido or his sword. Too many scenarios and variables hence why it is still inconclusive. Itachi has never shown to be able to seal people at Aizen's level anyway. Reitasu blocks abilities when they are inferior as we saw soi fon's one shot ability failing to work.

Except Itachi is an Edo meaning he has infinite chakra. That argument is not working here. He is doing nothing because he is under Tsukuyomi. There are always a lot of variables in a fight and I give it to Itachi 7.5/10 in round 1. He does not need to seal someone on Aizen's level. Sealing is hax.

Onracol · May 9, 2018

Rocker1189 said:
Onracol said:

You're forgetting Itachi is under Kyoka Suigetsu. You're making it seem as if Aizen is just sitting there doing nothing and he'll wait for Itachi to hit him without utilising Kido or his sword. Too many scenarios and variables hence why it is still inconclusive. Itachi has never shown to be able to seal people at Aizen's level anyway. Reitasu blocks abilities when they are inferior as we saw soi fon's one shot ability failing to work.

Click to expand...

Except Itachi is an Edo meaning he has infinite chakra. That argument is not working here. He is doing nothing because he is under Tsukuyomi. There are always a lot of variables in a fight and I give it to Itachi 7.5/10 in round 1. He does not need to seal someone on Aizen's level. Sealing is hax.

Itachi solos anyone via Tsukoyomi confirmed? LOL

As if the Hogyoku will just sit there and reactive evolution gets thrown out. What exactly is Itachi going to do to Aizen in the Tsukuyomi? nothing will happen. Soi fon was hax yet she failed to one shot Aizen with her shikai. why would the rules be different here especially since Totsuka blade works on a soul level like every Bleach character ever(i forgot the word for it).

Rocker1189 · May 9, 2018

Onracol said:
Itachi solos anyone via Tsukoyomi confirmed? LOL

As if the Hogyoku will just sit there and reactive evolution gets thrown out. What exactly is Itachi going to do to Aizen in the Tsukuyomi? nothing will happen. Soi fon was hax yet she failed to one shot Aizen with her shikai. why would the rules be different here especially since Totsuka blade works on a soul level like every Bleach character ever(i forgot the world for it).

Sigh. Yes most people without good mind resistance or who are not as fast as him would be soloed by Itachi, it is a fact, Aizen is not that OP stop making it look like he ***** on most people.

Reactive evolution is unquantifiable asf.

I said it several times I dont know if you can not read TOTSUKA BLADE. Or you know what yeah leave him in the genjutsu forever. Or make him think he is in space so that his brain suffocates itself of oxygen. I assume they might still need that to live.

Soi fon does not have infinte reiatsu.

Itachi vs Aizen

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