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Morgoth vs. Abeloth

Jinsye

Jinsye

She/Her
10,463
1,587
I was tempted to give Emprah another win but, eh.

So yeah, I watched the LOTR movies and never read anything related to Star Wars. I can't help on this one much.

4-A versions used.

Speed Equalized because I think Abeloth outspeeds by alot.

Who wins?

Morgoth: 0

Abeloth: 4

Morgoth 2
AbelothArt
 
Can't say I'm too angry a Star Wars character had a fair fight with the Emperor

Also, Abeloth's precog is straight up bullshit, not seeing how she doesn't just mind hax after seeing that Morgoth doesn't have resistance to you know what

Does he have anything particularly dangerous to her?
 
Not that I'm seeing that would work fast enough besides maybe Time Stop.
 
She has High Mid regen, so that's going to have mixed results

Abeloth should mindhax eventually even if she doesn't lead with it

Voting her...Ir it, IDK
 
Abu2411 said:
How would Abeloth's mind hax even work on Morgoth?
Click to expand...
Abeloth is stronger than both of the Son and Daughter and can make Grandmaster Luke look like an ant when the two are in their full power, and Grandmaster Luke is superior than Dark Empire Sidious who is more powerful than Sith Lord Odion wearing the Helm of Iedis, which allows him to mind control every single being in the galaxy with ease and this includes other Sith Lords.


Since when Morgoth have resistance to casual galactic-scale mind hax.
 
Abu2411 said:
that does not mean her mindhax is good
Click to expand...
Are you suggesting that Abeloth when it comes to using the Force is weaker than Odion with the Helm of Iedis.

Here's the thing, if one is stronger with the Force, the stronger all of their abilties this includes Telekinises, Telepathy, and etc.

Father>>>Abeloth>>>Daughter/Son>>>GM Luke>>>Dark Empire Sidious>>>Lord Odion with the helm of Iedis.

If Lord Odion with the helm of Iedis tries to fight against Abeloth, Abeloth mindhax him even if Lord Odion have his helmet that can give crazy godly mindhax, I mean Abeloth should be superior than Dark Empire Sidious who is more superior than Lord Odion with the Helm of Iedis.
 
Morgoth takes this , albeit maybe with a hard fight. Morgoth is capable of everything any Valar can do in addition to being the Prince of Darkness. He's not going to be a pushover.
 
Morgoth's will is supreme in Middle Earth over all others. Sauron's power over magic and corruption comes from his will, and his will is like a gnat compared to Morgoth's. Abeloth might be able to force lesser beings like Sauron to kill themselves, but it's not going to work on someone like Morgoth.
 
None of that explains the potency of his resistance.

Especially when Abeloths Mind Hax is way above the quadrillion's at this point
 
Gargoyle One said:
None of that explains the potency of his resistance.

Especially when Abeloths Mind Hax is way above the quadrillion's at this point
Click to expand...
I just don't see Abeloth Mindhaxing a being that is the equal to Biblical Satan. That seems unquantifiable to me, so the only thing we have to go on is sheer power, and while Abeloth has that in spades, I don't see her as having more than Morgoth, or necessarily even as much power as Morgoth.
 
None of that helps whatsoever

Abeloth is vastly superior to Sith like Darth Sidious who can control 100 Quadrillion's Sentient and Non sentient beings with a single thought

Saying he resists mindhax of that level because he's equal to Satan makes zero sense and isn't helpful
 
Gargoyle One said:
None of that helps whatsoever

Abeloth is vastly superior to Sith like Darth Sidious who can control 100 Quadrillion's Sentient and Non sentient beings with a single thought

Saying he resists mindhax of that level because he's equal to Satan makes zero sense and isn't helpful
Click to expand...
Well saying that "Mindhax" = one drop of rain in the ocean in the following analogy should help. You're saying, "Abeloth's Mind Hax is way above the quadrillions at this point? Quadrillions of what? Quadrillions of ants? People? Gods? Sorry, Morgoth is a god who has the following feats with his mind alone, with no psionic powers:

Existed in a realm without Discord, and was able to comprehend it. Created the concept of Discord in the Anulindalë. Existed beyond linear time and the physical universe.

That's only if Morgoth decides to stupidly stand still while Abeloth Mind Haxes him. What Morgoth has that might come in handy against Abeloth is his ability to literally create new forms of Magic, and that isn't even counting the fact that he could just Curse Abeloth to be unable to use Mind Hax of any kind. There is ample reason that he should be able to do that to Abeloth.

Now, on to the analogy about rain drops and the ocean. If an ordinary human being is one of those rain drops from the sky, look, Morgoth would be an absolutely enormous mass of floating water in the vast expanse of space. It would be unwise to say that Morgoth is just a drop in the bucket.
 
His status as a god doesn't matter, and her mindhax is caused by thinking and isn't something you can Dodge.
 
Also, she, the Son and Daughter, and arguably GM Luke could be considered as God's if you wanted to. That's an incredibly subjective adjective.
 
The Son and The Daughter are considered gods of the dark and light sides of the force, and she stomps them

Morgoth bring god is an utter non argument
 
Doesn't he have a 4D mind through being Valar? Unless it's for 2-C key only.
 
Wokistan said:
His status as a god doesn't matter, and her mindhax is caused by thinking and isn't something you can Dodge.
Click to expand...
His status as a god isn't what is being discussed, it's the reality of this designation that matters. Abeloth Mind Hax is not something that exists in Lord of the Rings, therefore the closest proximity we have to quantify something like that is the sheer magical power and strength of will that Morgoth possesses. In Arda, the setting of Lord of the Rings, how you measure someone's power is through authority or strength of will. Even if The Force exists in Arda, which it doesn't, The Force isn't automatically superior to the magic in Tolkien's work. So, the reason why Morgoth being a god matters, is because his magic is simply stronger than Abeloth's IMHO.

If you want to argue sheer power and esoteric magnitudes, that would be an easier way to convince me.
 
That's not really how verse equalization works, but I don't think you can really get how absurd a number 100 quadrillion is. That's not an insult, numbers that high are extremely difficult for humans to conceptualize. World population is what, 7.5 ish billion? Say each person gets their own earth with the same population. That's still only about half of what abeloth can overcome. The collective will of 100 quadrillion minds, including profocient force users, seems more impressive than creator god type stuff.
 
Wokistan said:
That's not really how verse equalization works, but I don't think you can really get how absurd a number 100 quadrillion is. That's not an insult, numbers that high are extremely difficult for humans to conceptualize. World population is what, 7.5 ish billion? Say each person gets their own earth with the same population. That's still only about half of what abeloth can overcome. The collective will of 100 quadrillion minds, including profocient force users, seems more impressive than creator god type stuff.
Click to expand...
It's not necessarily about quantity so much as quality. The Quality of a Creator God type mind is innately superior than any mortal's. So, we have to prove, what makes Abeloth's ability to do things like Mind Hax entire population's so impressive that it automatically proves she can do anything to Morgoth's mind? The answer is, nothing.
 
We don't really do things like that here, not even counting how the Daughter and Son are God's and lose to it, and the strongest force users are basically God's and lose to it. You need feats beyond just being a god to resist mindhax on the order of 100 quadrillion beings, unless morgeth is some ridiculously abstract being somehow.
 
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