The Arisen vs The Undertale-verse

ThePerpetual · Nov 22, 2015

Hailing from a world where sheer force of will is what makes one strong enough to rise up from the common people and be capable of defeating the supreme deity of the world itself. Going most of the entire game without a heart, then proceeding to few things can claim to have willpower of the Hero of Gransys. But... what about a world where extreme determination like this can be found all around, an entire world where his determination is put to the test?

Rules: The Arisen must battle each named character from weakest to strongest at least once, with five minute breaks in between. He starts at his weakest stat block; if he dies, he must re-try with his next strongest one. Exhausting all four lives means failure to complete the gauntlet. Each battle is until knockout (Or death!! [gasp]), incapacitation, or whatever other method would obviously contextually be a win. Each one starts at a distance of 25 meters apart, in an area in the Undertale-verse where one would encounter the Undertale character in question.

Life 1: The Arisen gets starter equipment, no curatives.

Life 2: The Arisen gets standard equipment, basic curatives.

Life 3: The Arisen gets one copy of all equipment, including tomes, Maker's Arrow, and Wakestone.

Life 4: The Arisen gets one copy of all equipment, including tomes, Maker's Arrow, and Wakestone, and all Seneschal powers. In addition, since the Seneschal's speed is largely an unknown, you may consider speed equalized.

Is The Hero of the Eternal Cycle determined enough to defeat his new foes? If not, what entity ultimately stops his hopes and dreams? (On a side note, I love making these references, hehe.) Stating your reasoning would be appreciated.

ThePerpetual · Nov 22, 2015

Forgot to mention this earlier, but yes, the Arisen does get three similarly equipped pawns to accompany him each life (though they can't use wakestones.)

Double also, this. Listen to it. It's great.

Squid_peanut · Nov 22, 2015

First go, they lose to the stronger normal monsters (i.e. tsundere plane and Knight Knight, etc). not well versed enough to say anything about intermediate parts. At maximum however, just by looking at their stats, their only going to be able to make it to UtU best, as sans would mop the floor with them due to the combined KR of both their own in world actions and the fact that they killed everyone to reach him.

Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot · Nov 22, 2015

Life 1: Probably loses to Lesser Dog or something of that ilk.

Life 2: Clears most named characters due to pure power, probably loses to Sans.

Life 3: Still potentially loses to Sans, but very possibly takes him down. Should he take down Sans, he likely loses to Undyne the Undying.

Life 4: Likely loses to abstract Chara do to being at a massive speed disadvantage. Should he make it past them, he almost certainly loses to God Flowey.

Final Result:

low end = loses to Chara

high end = puts up a good fight against God Flowey

average = makes it to God Flowey

The_Everlasting · Nov 22, 2015

Speed is equalized in Life 4...

Not that it matters in the long run.

Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot · Nov 22, 2015

The Everlasting said:
Speed is equalized in Life 4...
Not that it matters in the long run.

Whoops. Missed that. Gives him a much, much higher chance against abstract Chara. God Flowey still save scums him, though. Because God Flowey is an asshole.

Squid_peanut · Nov 22, 2015

should it go sans UtU or UtU sans?

Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot · Nov 22, 2015

Squid peanut said:
should it go sans UtU or UtU sans?

I was thinking Sans to UtU, just because while Sans is far more difficult and far more crafty, UtU is technically far stronger.

ThePerpetual · Nov 22, 2015

I can explain any of the powers the guy's got if anyone needs clarification.

Also, should we establish some sort of order these fights occur in, or does it matter?

Squid_peanut · Nov 22, 2015

low end normal monsters, napstablook & dummy (unless arisen cant deal with ghosts), high end monsters, known powerfull monsters, so sorry, papyrus, muffet, mettaton, toriel, asgore, UtU, sans, Chara, Omega Flowey, Frisk, Asriel Dreemurr & Asriel 100%, jerry.

Squid_peanut · Nov 22, 2015

does the arison actually possess a soul or not, this is important as it determines if soul manipultaion work on him.

ThePerpetual · Nov 22, 2015

^Is this order agreeable to everyone else? If not, what else needs switching?

Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot · Nov 22, 2015

ThePerpetual said:
I can explain any of the powers the guy's got if anyone needs clarification.
Also, should we establish some sort of order these fights occur in, or does it matter?

I'm mostly familiar with the Arisen, but I may have forgotten a few things.

Well, if we don't take basic enemies into account, then it probably goes:

Doggo

Lesser Dog

Greater Dog

Dogi

Mad Dummy

Royal Guards

Papyrus

Base Undyne

Muffet

Mettaton/Mettaton EX

Toriel/Asgore

Mettaton NEO

Sans

Undyne the Undying

Chara

God Flowey

Asriel

Frisk's placement would vary based on Determination. I'm not including Napstablook, because the Arisen likely couldn't hurt him and he couldn't hurt the Arisen, making the fight pointless. Not sure where the Amalgamates would go.

Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot · Nov 22, 2015

This is just a totally rough list, so it's not set in stone.

Squid_peanut · Nov 22, 2015

if we're doing one time encounters then shyren and temmie should be worked in, all be it low. as for amalgamates, I say so cold is kept out because it doesn't desrve this, the rest go around undyne

Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot · Nov 22, 2015

Squid peanut said:
if we're doing one time encounters then shyren and temmie should be worked in, all be it low. as for amalgamates, I say so cold is kept out because it doesn't desrve this, the rest go around undyne

Sounds about right. I need to check Shyren, Temmie, and the Amalgamates' stats again, too.

Squid_peanut · Nov 22, 2015

I also say base Undyne may need to be bumped up to above mettaton & muffet and mettaton neo get taken out since we don't know much of it and it has pathetic defenses

Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot · Nov 22, 2015

True. However, looking at NEO's stats, he's technically offensively superior to Asgore and Toriel, which is hilarious. Muffet and Mettaton are supposed to be superior to Undyne power-wise, but they're nowhere near as skilled.

Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot · Nov 22, 2015

Also Temmie has the same attack as Undyne but -20 defense.

I just...........

Squid_peanut · Nov 22, 2015

if neo goes after tori and gory. Temmie goes at the same time as Undyne

Squid_peanut · Nov 22, 2015

also sans is more powerful the further back he is, as the more people the arisen kills, the more damage sans' attacks do

ThePerpetual · Nov 22, 2015

That's an important question. Are we making this be to the death, or just to KO? Given Sans is on the field that might matter.

Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot · Nov 22, 2015

The fact that Temmie is a powerhouse yet gets one-shot by like...anything is still incredibly amusing.

Also, I'm even more unsure now where to put the Amalgamates, if even include them, at all. Apparently, most of them are around Undyne's level in power, but completely unable to be hurt by conventional means (their defense is 9999, and attacking them results in it passing through them as if they weren't even there).

Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot · Nov 22, 2015

ThePerpetual said:
That's an important question. Are we making this be to the death, or just to KO? Given Sans is on the field that might matter.

Hmm...I'm not sure, actually. Which would you prefer?

Squid_peanut · Nov 22, 2015

Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
The fact that Temmie is a powerhouse yet gets one-shot by like...anything is still incredibly amusing.
Also, I'm even more unsure now where to put the Amalgamates, if even include them, at all. Apparently, most of them are around Undyne's level in power, but completely unable to be hurt by conventional means (their defense is 9999, and attacking them results in it passing through them as if they weren't even there).

if that's so take amalgamates out, and Dummy too since their all the napstablook problem (maybe metteton rectangel too? idk)

Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot · Nov 23, 2015

Hmm...base Mettaton seems to be able to be hurt, but just have really REALLY high defense. I think Mad Dummy may be fine, as he still seems vulnerable to magic, whereas we don't know if that's the case for Napstablook and the Amalgamates.

ThePerpetual · Nov 23, 2015

Hmmm.

I mean, both seem in-character potentially, dependent on the situation. On the one hand, Canon!Arisen is the classic honorable white knight type (at least in personality, fighting-style wise he's not afraid to exploit the living hell out of enemies personality flaws/weaknesses, and has got some fairly brutal attack animations with some of his weapons skills, comes with the territory for M-rated games.) He's dealt with talking monsters before and doesn't rush into things without thinking, his fighting style is more akin to something like Batman: slow, methodical, patient. In fact, if everyone's in-character, he might get past some fights just by making it a friendly spar, one could argue, at least against some of the less evil these peeps.

...on the other hand, he is sort of a monster slayer first and foremost for most of the game, as "good monsters" don't exist in proper in the Dragon's Dogma-verse, the closest you'll get is Grigori, and some of the monsters might cause him/one of his pawns to freak out and attack simply by virtue of looking super-bizarre/evil.

The idea of the first options seems slightly more probable and entertaining to my inner fan overall, but you may consider both or only the second scenario/s if you like I guess?

Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot · Nov 23, 2015

Sounds reasonable, really.

Squid_peanut · Nov 23, 2015

granted but he'll still probably catch hell with the characters that would give him hell. also him being able to be talked down would turn Frisk from a brick wall, to a diamond one.

ThePerpetual · Nov 23, 2015

I'd imagine he'd be determined to get through them and continue his quest in one way or another, not much of a Vs Thread without the "Vs" kek

Though that's another question, where does Frisk fit in to all of this?

Squid_peanut · Nov 23, 2015

ThePerpetual said:
I'd imagine he'd be determined to get through them and continue his quest in one way or another, not much of a Vs Thread without the "Vs" kek
Though that's another question, where does Frisk fit in to all of this?

um, well undetermined Frisk can only knock over a tomato at max strength so we should cut them out. High determined Frisk goes right above tori & gory, and max determination Frisk either goes right before Omega Flowey or right before Asriel

Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot · Nov 23, 2015

ThePerpetual said:
Though that's another question, where does Frisk fit in to all of this?

Frisk without any Determination/minimum Determination? Near the bottom.

Frisk with high amounts of Determination? Above Asgore.

Frisk with incredibly high amounts of Determination? Somewhere with Omega Flowey and Asriel.

Squid_peanut · Nov 23, 2015

how about facing Frisk takes into account Frisk trying to demorallize and weaken the arisen and Flowey finishes arisen off if Frisk beats them.

Squid_peanut · Nov 23, 2015

because Flowey is a good friend

Angry_Dummy · Nov 23, 2015

Things I would like to contribute...

Temmie only does damage because Frisk is allergic to it.

Like, city-level allergic to it.

HO1vES!

Flowey's favorite tactic is unavoidable. We all love the undodgeable ring of bullets.

Sans... uh...

No way on Earth is anyone taking down Sans with their first life.

I don't care who you are, you are not going to like having the rules of the game averted right out of nowhere. That guy is getting dunked on by Karmic Retribution during Sans' first and strongest attack without even getting a turn to warm up.

After that comes more nonsense, like Sans throwing him around like a rag-doll and putting him in situations that might cause him to panic through his teleportation (or is he just pausing the timeline for a moment, rearranging some things, then turning it back on? Heck if I know...) and the knowledge that even a tiny mistake can quickly cause things to spiral out of control, ending a match right then and there.

I would argue that Undyne would become Undyne the Undying IMMEDIATELY after her first form, refusing to let this crazy person from nowhere end her entire race right then and there.

Then there's StabsMcGee, Chara. I sure hope that the Arisen can breathe in a temporal vacuum, because that's what the battlefield will be after Chara swings for the first time.

Or... or... oh no...

Guys, you know how Chara is the embodiment of an RPG player's desire to grind for loot and EXP, brought into the game whenever you speak their name to possess the lead character?

...

Ca9a066ec6cdd06fd089170f59a9e078ae7ab797db4c8a3cc5e10725985a30f1 1

I think we goofed up when we came up with this idea.

Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot · Nov 23, 2015

Chara exists just to make you realize how terrible of a person you are while playing an RPG.

Squid_peanut · Nov 23, 2015

In a twist arisen somehow manages to win only for his body to be taken over by chara... good thing he can't win then ey. also Undyne would not go UtU right after being defeated unless the Arisen is at least 5-B at that point

Pikachu942 · Nov 23, 2015

Frisk without any Determination/minimum Determination? Near the bottom.

Frisk with high amounts of Determination? Above Asgore.

Frisk with incredibly high amounts of Determination? Somewhere with Omega Flowey and Asriel.

Frisk with even max determination is still weaker than Omega Flowey, I'd say he's actually about as strong as Chara

Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot · Nov 23, 2015

Pikachu942 said:
Frisk with even max determination is still weaker than Omega Flowey, I'd say he's actually about as strong as Chara

Yes, but Frisk didn't have max determination in the Omega Flowey fight. While they're not as strong, they're far more durable, as even Asriel couldn't kill them.

Angry_Dummy · Nov 23, 2015

If Chara is involved, and they are, then the Arisen most certainly is not human anymore.

Considering he probably got one-shot by Doggo earlier on, he's definitely on his second life by that point, which is possibly 5-B. He can definitely one-shot base Undyne at life 2 (at least high country level vs city level+).

I would say that if this guy were going to try and kill off the ENTIRE Undertale line-up, then Undyne would get her Animu-Upgrade pretty quick. And that would knock off one or two lives right there.

Regardless, that means that he'll be on his fourth life by Sans (whom I would argue is still a bigger threat than UtU on account of haxiness), and that's just a death sentence.

And if he makes it past that, he either punches himself in the face with a sword trying to kill Chara, who has possessed them, therefore losing, or he's up against Omega Flowey, and still losing, because of this.

The Arisen vs The Undertale-verse

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