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Hypothetical Multiverse Type Question

Fodder-level Composite Hierarchy.

Edit: LOL. But seriously, what do you mean "Type Infinity".
 
I'm saying if the Types kept going on forever... And the others share the same qualitative diffrence compared to each other in a never-ending cycle ... What Tier would "Type Infinity" be ? I need to know as a character of mine is going to make one.
 
Oh, I getcha.

Speaking purely theoretically here, it would essentially be on the levels of something extremely ridiculous like the Omega Omnisphere or The Box (I don't mean extremely ridiculous in a bad way either). Even Type V would be scientifically and likewise mathematically impossible, and since this is Type Infinite, it would keep containing everything, infinitely, similar to "The Box" yet be contained in itself by a Tier 0.

Again, strictly theoretical based on Ven's composite hierarchy scale.
 
Glad you understand.

I get you. Speaking Hypothetically IS what i wanted here. I know what you mean, i personally believe both Box and Omega Omnisphere is a very detailed and great theoretical concept. I see.... What an amazing implication .

I understand. Thanks for answering. I would like others opinions on this though.
 
@Aeyu

Precisely. Such a thing would be logically impossible, but if we use a composite hierarchy scale based on the sole concept of perspective, such a thing could exist and be philosophically theorized.
 
I can't say, Seed, because "type infinity" is arbitrary at best. No offense .-. Even a type V would be probably beyond all spectrums of possibility, including the logically impossible, if I wanted to entertain that for a moment.

@Sera

You have a link to this "composite hierarchy," stuff? I've been making my own tiering system and I'd like to see how it compares to yours.
 
The page I made for this wiki is tremendously outdated, as it was made to explain certain verses like Umineko and others with "reality-fiction" layers that can be applied to our system, despite the difference being greater than the difference between dimensions.

The gist is that absolutely everything is limited by persepctive. So a Type V Multiverse beyond all spectrums of possibility, including the logically impossible, could exist and we would never even be capable of knowing. Forever unknowable to us.

To quote Tokiomi

"How can a being exist higher than us? Such a thing would be logically impossible."

Despite The Chousin already being beyond all scientific theories, math, logic, dimensions, etc.

Or the Outer Gods who are "beyond all perspectives and conceptualizations" and yet still are the dreams of Azathoth.
 
@Aeyu

I have it as a Google Doc but it's untranslated at the moment.

I would love to see your tier system sometime, people have told me it's gewd and stuff.
 
Sera Loveheart said:
Oh, I getcha.
Speaking purely theoretically here, it would essentially be on the levels of something extremely ridiculous like the Omega Omnisphere or The Box (I don't mean extremely ridiculous in a bad way either). Even Type V would be scientifically and likewise mathematically impossible, and since this is Type Infinite, it would keep containing everything, infinitely, similar to "The Box" yet be contained in itself by a Tier 0.

Again, strictly theoretical based on Ven's composite hierarchy scale.
Click to expand...
i'm an admin for verse and dimensions http://verse-and-dimensions.wikia.com the box can't be contained lol, if it did, it'd be contained by itself again
 
The Structure of Everything exists outside the Box. Nothing is beyond an omnipotent.

Therefore the box can be contained (at least here, it can be different on V and D).

Thanks for the invite btw. :3
 
The Box is sort of like a long list of everything an omnipotent being can touch. To say that the Box is limited is to say that an omnipotent being is limited. An omnipotent being containing the Box is isomorphic to an omnipotent being containing another omnipotent being - of course it can't, the other omnipotent wouldn't let itself be contained, or it would otherwise be contained in a way that doesn't match to our ideas of containment, like being simultaneously contained and uncontained, or the question doesn't make sense because putting two omnipotent beings in the same place isn't well-defined (how do you guys resolve this, actually?).

There is no Type-Infinity multiverse. Tegmark wasn't making some kind of function that takes natural numbers and outputs powerful -verses, he was just listing some categories and giving them names that happen to look like numbers. If you felt like it, you could put the Box at V (generalisation: any mathematical system to any metaphysical system), and say it only has five values.
 
@Holomanga

Basically this. The Box is an arbitrary concept, whereas MUH is well-defined as being all forms of mathematical universes on every level possible, under all possible laws of physics, under every permutation that could ever exist. This would include aspatial and atemporal items, as all ideas would tangibly exist as well as being "real," in a more metaphysical domain.
 
The Box is sort of like a long list of everything an omnipotent being can touch. To say that the Box is limited is to say that an omnipotent being is limited.

This is implying that Omnipotent beings are limited to such a list and to imply that the Box is equal to said Omnipotent being. If they are, said being isn't actually Omnipotent. And so using said being as a reference would mean that the Box isn't containing what one could call Omnipotent at all. And if said being is Omnipotent, it would be foolish to imply that anything at all could contain it.
 
It's self-contradictory, so sorta. Though I doubt the intentions were malicious like Suggs'.
 
Oh my gah! Hello Holomanga!

Anyway, the Box and Omega Omnisphere can both be limitless concepts in a sense, but there's enough philosophical evidence to support an Absolute such as Ein (being The Nothing) being outside even the Box. Moreover, true boundlessness contains everything. So either the Box is God or God is the Box. Either way, boundlessness encompasses it because it encompasses boundlessness. It's a Catch 22.
 
It's not. Omnipotence is irrelevant when discussing true boundlessness. Ein Sof, Parabrahman, From the Good, etc. have never been described as "omnipotent" because they are not "beings". They are not "I can do everything." They are "everything" without limit. The Box is no different than any random concept of the Absolute from various philosophical schools or even certain religions.
 
Beyond imagination and beyond idea are Suggs-terms that hold no weight on top-tier cosmological structures. (Again, perspective). But, I'm trying to not be so dismissive, like I was discussing Seed's idea of a Type Infinity Multiverse, even though it's impossible on the Kardashev scale. Everyone tries to come up with their own "largest cosmology" ever and think it's biggest, baddest, thing ever. Truth is, it's not. Not even the Ultimate Ensemble. I mean which is bigger? Umineko or Demonbane? Everything is relative, even everyone's favorite "power" omnipotence.
 
If you can prove omnipotence then it has no longer purpose. And therefore someone is not omnipotent if you can prove it.

Also ; Boundlessness =/= boundless.
 
TheHadouCyberspaceWitch said:
The Box just seems to be a single infinitely self-recursive set with fluffy words like "beyond imagination" and "beyond idea" thrown into there.
Click to expand...
Other way around - the Box is "beyond imagination" and "beyond idea", with some fluffy words like "infinitely self-recursive" thrown in there becuase otherwise people go "ah, but the Box does not contain the Box. Checkmate!"
 
"Type" refers to the Kardashev scale. Types I, II, III, and IV.
 
If you are using the Kardashev scale (assuming you are using Carl Sagans version) a K-infinity civilisation would be one that could harness an infinite amount of energy in an infinitely small timeframe. The Kardashev scale is really just measuring the amount of energy a civilisation can access. Adding an infinite just means infinite energy.
 
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