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Continued from here. (PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING ANYTHING IN THIS THREAD)
If you want to say something that you consider important, leave it on my wall and I'll make note of it.
Introductio
Ryukama's debunks to the 4-galaxy theory.
PART 1:
PART 2:
PART 3:
I also agree with Ryukama.
That said, here is my analysis of the situation at hand, as requested by Ryukama and Ant:
Revision
The 3-C Scaling
A correction of what Ryukama said here:
For the first part, the multiplier on GT is implied to be only between 2-3x, as shown by General Rildo saying Base Goku was a little less than half of Super Saiyan Goku's power:
Also, the thing about characters only needing to be ten times stronger than Kid Boo to be 3-C is kinda inaccurate. It was probably sparked by what I said in the blog, but that was me confusing units.
Since the new baseline for 3-C is 10.53 ZettaFoe, they would need to be roughly 77 times stronger than Kid Boo to be scaled to 3-C.
Who gets scaled to this?
I don't know exactly, but Julian suggested Super Saiyan 4 Goku (Baby Saga) and above would be a good choice, which I think makes sense via scaling:
Of course, we generally frown upon multiplier calcs and scaling, so it all really depends on what our instance is regarding this. However, I tried to use low estimates.
My suggestion so far is:
This was initially brought up by Ryukama, who agreed with scaling Omega and Gogeta to this level. I'm personally neutral on this idea, and I'm fine with whatever we decide to do with it.
The reasons are:
Translations:
"It's about an Evil Dragon inhabiting a star and immediately destroying all the galaxies around that star." - ALRF
A long long time ago, the Evil Dragon appeared on another planet. That planet was immediately destroyed, as were the galaxies surrounding it. - Ukatama on Reddit. Source
"I think the inaccuracy is that it should be all the galaxies around the planet were wiped out. Also, the word star can also mean planet, so depending on the context this might be about a star being destroyed but that's less likely." - Domromer on Reddit. Source
This would solidly upgrade Omega to 3-B. This also scales to Gogeta, since he kicked away Omega's Negative Karma Ball (which had all the negative energy) like a toy and then converted all of the negative energy to positive energy, restoring the Earth to what it once was.
Profiles
I'll now help out with the profiles.
List of profiles that scale to 3-C
If you want to say something that you consider important, leave it on my wall and I'll make note of it.
Introductio
Ryukama's debunks to the 4-galaxy theory.
PART 1:
| I personally think that 4 galaxies is silly. We're so anal on what's canon in DB and what outside guides/sources to use. Yet this one guidebook statement where nearly all the other information from the guidebook we adamantly deny that isn't supported elsewhere we base the entire consmology of GT off of. And we would've based the entirety of DBZ and Super had Super not debunked this beyond any reasonable doubt, which we called a "retcon", when really it's more like the series never had just 4 galaxies to begin with. Plus this same guidebook also claims the DB universe is infinite. Cherrypicking one part out of a source we deemed as noncanon to support an argument that the other part completely debunks is very disingenous in my opinion. |
| Also GT has arguably shown more than 4 galaxies: https://gyazo.com/8eae8a91dc75015c67eaca6bceff7fb4 |
| "A local collection of stars and planets in outer space. A nebula is a collection of stars and planets, and in turn a collection of several nebulae is called a galaxy. Being responsible for the north/south/east/west, the four Kaios in practice oversee these galaxies. The divides between north/south/east/west galaxies are units which the celestial gods and Kaios produced for occupational purposes, in order to unify the galaxies which exist infinitely in outer space" |
| ^ A statement which not only calls North, South, East and West sections of galaxies, but also claims infinite galaxies. Why is 4 galaxies based on this guide again? |
|
That said, here is my analysis of the situation at hand, as requested by Ryukama and Ant:
Revision
The 3-C Scaling
A correction of what Ryukama said here:
| I know we hate using the SSJ multipliers (even though they come from the same guides we're basing 4 galaxies off of lol). However SSJ1 has to be at least more than a 20x increase, since it's stronger than KKx20. And GT Base Goku is superior to SSJ3 Z Goku. So if Kep's blog for anime Kid Buu gets accepted, then most people worth a damn in GT would be 3-C. Since you'd only have to be 1/10 Kid Buu to be 3-C. |
- Episode 19
- Time: 19m40s
- Context: Rild senses Goku's ki after Goku transforms into a Super Saiyan
- Rild: "Up to now, you haven't been putting out half of your power."
Also, the thing about characters only needing to be ten times stronger than Kid Boo to be 3-C is kinda inaccurate. It was probably sparked by what I said in the blog, but that was me confusing units.
Since the new baseline for 3-C is 10.53 ZettaFoe, they would need to be roughly 77 times stronger than Kid Boo to be scaled to 3-C.
Who gets scaled to this?
I don't know exactly, but Julian suggested Super Saiyan 4 Goku (Baby Saga) and above would be a good choice, which I think makes sense via scaling:
- Base Goku against Rildo went Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3, making him, say, 10x above Kid Boo.
- After his battles in space, Goku's power increased so much he could keep up with both Super Saiyan Gohan (Possessed) and Super Saiyan Goten (Possessed) at the same time, both being far stronger than normal due to Baby's power boost. This means Goku became at least many times stronger than before, let's say 4 as a super-lowball.
- That means Goku as a SSJ3 would be at least 40x Kid Boo. Now, remember the fact that even BASE Baby Vegeta is above SSJ3 Goku? He has two more forms, both of which increase his power level by " a lot", making him overall far, far above 40 times Kid Boo at least.
- Add Super Saiyan 4, which unlocks the potential of the person, anin and you have SSJ4 Goku being far, far more than 77 times Kid Boo.
Of course, we generally frown upon multiplier calcs and scaling, so it all really depends on what our instance is regarding this. However, I tried to use low estimates.
My suggestion so far is:
- Upgrade all characters above this level to 3-C.
- Leave all the ones who scale under it at "At least 4-A"
This was initially brought up by Ryukama, who agreed with scaling Omega and Gogeta to this level. I'm personally neutral on this idea, and I'm fine with whatever we decide to do with it.
The reasons are:
- Omega Shenron was going to destroy the universe , which we now consider to be normal-sized, with his Minus Energy in an unquantifiable period of time. However, it was fast enough for Elder Kai to say it'd happen "soon".
- According to Mr. Popo on the original japanese anime, the Evil Dragons immediately destroyed galaxies last time they appeared. This translation has been confirmed by ALRF and several other fluent Japanese translators on the internet:
Translations:
"It's about an Evil Dragon inhabiting a star and immediately destroying all the galaxies around that star." - ALRF
A long long time ago, the Evil Dragon appeared on another planet. That planet was immediately destroyed, as were the galaxies surrounding it. - Ukatama on Reddit. Source
"I think the inaccuracy is that it should be all the galaxies around the planet were wiped out. Also, the word star can also mean planet, so depending on the context this might be about a star being destroyed but that's less likely." - Domromer on Reddit. Source
This would solidly upgrade Omega to 3-B. This also scales to Gogeta, since he kicked away Omega's Negative Karma Ball (which had all the negative energy) like a toy and then converted all of the negative energy to positive energy, restoring the Earth to what it once was.
Profiles
I'll now help out with the profiles.
List of profiles that scale to 3-C
- Uub (Possibly 3-C via fighting a Suppressed Baby and being probably at least above SSJ3 Goku)
- Goku: Multi-Solar System level ((Put up fights against Uub and Base Rilldo. Both of which were on levels similar to anime Buu, who gradually destroyed a galaxy) | At least Multi-Solar System level (Kept up with both Super Saiyan Gohan and Goten in his base form while they were much stronger than normal. Is several times stronger as a Super Saiyan 3) | Galaxy level (Casually fodderized Super Baby Vegeta 2 and kept up with Oozaru Baby. In the Super 17 fight, he became so much stronger he surpassed Uub in his Super Saiyan 1 form, making his Super Saiyan 4 countless times stronger. Kept up with Syn Shenro after breaking his limits) | Unknow
- Vegeta: Multi-Solar System level (Somewhat comparable to Base Goku, who became even stronger than Kid Buu, who gradually destroyed a galaxy | At least Multi-Solar System level, likely Galaxy level (Surpassed Uub, who was able to keep up with a suppressed Super Baby Vegeta 2) | Galaxy level (Comparable to Super Saiyan 4 Goku after breaking his limits)
- Uub: Multi-Solar System level (Forced Goku on the beginning of GT to go all-out, and had by then surpassed Kid Buu who gradually destroyed galaxies | At least Multi-Solar System level, likely Galaxy level (Fought a suppressed Super Baby Vegeta 2, who was casually many times above Super Saiyan 3 Goku on much weaker forms)
- Baby: Galaxy level (Stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku even in his weakest form, and after transforming, he became many times stronger than before, which would make him this strong) | Galaxy level ([1] Absorbed 1,000 times the normal amount of Bruits Waves and became even stronger than Super Saiyan 4 Goku])
- Super 17: Likely Galaxy level (Casually fodderized Vegeta and Uub, and could fight evenly with Super Saiyan 1 Goku, who had become much stronger than Uub) | Galaxy level (After absorbing Goku's 10x Kamehameha, he became so much stronger he easily stomped Super Saiyan 4 Goku and required the power of a Dragon Fist to be defeated)
- Syn Shenro: Galaxy level (Fought Super Saiyan 4 Goku while he was blind, and could keep up with Goku after he surpassed his limits and became far, far stronger) | Multi-Galaxy level if it is accepted (Was going to destroy the universe over a period of time with his Minus Energy. Also, Black Smoke Shenron, who is equal to him in power, destroyed several galaxies immediately the last time he appeared), Galaxy level otherwise (Said to be ten times stronger than before)
- Nuova Shenro: Galaxy level (Stalemated Super Saiyan 4 Goku and could fight back against Syn)
- Eis Shenro: Likely Galaxy level (While considerably weaker than Goku, he was still strong enough to manage something against him)
- Gogeta: Multi-Galaxy level if it is accepted (Very casually fodderized Omega Shenron and is implied to be at least thrice his power. Kicked back Omega Shenron's Negative Karma Ball away and converted it to positive energy, revitalizing the Earth).Galaxy level otherwise (Several dozens of times above SSJ4 Goku or Vegeta)
