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Crimson King (DT) vs Death of the Endless (DC)
- Thread starter Aeyu
- Start date
- Status
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Last time on "The Higher Random VS The Endless"...
Continuing from that, what I've gathered from the previous thread is that the entire reason Dis couldn't do anything short of stalemating is because Destiny's function keeps the King's metahax in check.
Death's function, however, does not.
Now before anyone evokes an argument of how Death's function gives her 'absolute control' over life and death, the same thing is undoubtedly true of Gan. (As far as DT's verse goes, Gan has 'absolute control' over just about everything. I've explained this in the last thread in great detail.) Gan, from what evidence we are given, wasn't able to outright kill Dis; he simply locked him out of creation and actively limited his power. If he had been able to, the overarching cosmic conflict of DT would have never had to happen.
With no means of nullifying the Crimson King's powers over fate and story, as well as no means of killing him by virtue of a being who should easily have the same level (if not a higher degree) of Life/Death control being unable to do the same, I'd have to give this one to the Crimson King, albeit with high difficulty to an extent.
And by the by, Dis is not limited by the end of all existence. Thus, Death's act of 'claiming Destiny at the end of creation', even if taken literally, should not apply to him.
Anyone else's move, but that's my standpoint at the moment.
Continuing from that, what I've gathered from the previous thread is that the entire reason Dis couldn't do anything short of stalemating is because Destiny's function keeps the King's metahax in check.
Death's function, however, does not.
Now before anyone evokes an argument of how Death's function gives her 'absolute control' over life and death, the same thing is undoubtedly true of Gan. (As far as DT's verse goes, Gan has 'absolute control' over just about everything. I've explained this in the last thread in great detail.) Gan, from what evidence we are given, wasn't able to outright kill Dis; he simply locked him out of creation and actively limited his power. If he had been able to, the overarching cosmic conflict of DT would have never had to happen.
With no means of nullifying the Crimson King's powers over fate and story, as well as no means of killing him by virtue of a being who should easily have the same level (if not a higher degree) of Life/Death control being unable to do the same, I'd have to give this one to the Crimson King, albeit with high difficulty to an extent.
And by the by, Dis is not limited by the end of all existence. Thus, Death's act of 'claiming Destiny at the end of creation', even if taken literally, should not apply to him.
Anyone else's move, but that's my standpoint at the moment.
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Crimson king via plot manipulation, and the reasons stated by king
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I think Death can potentially have this, but I need time to get my information in order, and I can easily be wrong.
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@Cal:
Take your time. I need to step away for a moment anyway.
Take your time. I need to step away for a moment anyway.
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I'm probably gonna go to sleep soon anyway, so no need to wait 
. And tbh, I was kinda just saying things without any backing, and using elementary knowledge on the two to make a hasty decision. Death has a chance, and I stick by that, but it may or may not be enough.
. And tbh, I was kinda just saying things without any backing, and using elementary knowledge on the two to make a hasty decision. Death has a chance, and I stick by that, but it may or may not be enough.
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Is this gonna be a trend now? If so, gud c':
Anyway, everything seems analyzed well enough by others that I really can't say much else other than I agree The King takes it for their reasons. Death has an extremely potent function with her hax, yes, but it won't be as useful as what Destiny had to stalemate The King soooo...yeah. CK for those reasons.
Anyway, everything seems analyzed well enough by others that I really can't say much else other than I agree The King takes it for their reasons. Death has an extremely potent function with her hax, yes, but it won't be as useful as what Destiny had to stalemate The King soooo...yeah. CK for those reasons.
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I actually find it to be the opposite as far as 'not being cut-and-dry' goes. At this tier, battles basically boil down to the questions of 'Which character is more unbeatable?' and 'Whose hax are more unstoppable?' at the absolute extreme. The matches are usually very clear-cut due to the sheer size of the tier and the nature of the hax being tossed around at this level. (Take a good, hard look at how CK's matches prior to now have turned out, for example...)Aeyu said:
And judging by all of the past/dead threads I've looked at, I'd say the Endless have been kicking the shit out of everyone else in High 1-B for a long time now. And now there's a guy (technically three of them if we lowball Gan & Bessa) who can give them a real fight?
The hype is real.
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Like I said in the thread before, CK will run into a different problem if he fights Death.
Death isn't as limited as Destiny.While Destiny's power seems to diminish or maybe even disappear outside of Creation.Death does not, Death is there wherever the concept of Death exist.SHE IS the concept of death.Whenever there is something capable of dying.Death will exist and Death will be there
Death is the endless with the least restriction because her job requires her to be everywhere
So how far does Death's reach extend?
Claimed Elaine even though she is in Lucifer's creation, which is completely separated from the original Creation as shown when the Basanos was blinded by Lucifer's creation
This shows that Death is present even in the Creations in the Void
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11125/111258855/5215594-teleport.png
Maybe even present across all Creations in the Void
[1]
The void is infinite, the Void is the paper
Even Lucifer said Death is inevitable
So Death already claimed the Creation where silk man came from.That Creation is older than the current Creation and is likely that the Presence or Michael or Lucifer doesn't even exist during the time when this Creation exists.Yet Death already claimed it, so this seems to imply that the Endless are old, very old and as Lucifer said even fleeing to the Void won't help
So why is this important? this just means that Death is omnipresent or nigh omnipresent right? Each of those Creation is Creation similar to DC, similar to the Dark Tower and Death is present across all those Creations
As shown in The Sandman Overture, The Endless are just viewpoints.So each creature have different viewpoints
Crimson King might be able to Destroy the Dark Tower but Death is the end of all creations.All those possibly infinite creations in the Void.
Infinite Creations, not universes but other Creations like DC or Dark Tower
And as shown in Overture there's a different Endless for every being that exists
http://abload.de/image.php?img=2awj48.png
http://abload.de/image.php?img=2awj48.png
http://abload.de/image.php?img=3stk7l.png
http://abload.de/image.php?img=4h7xbh.png
Also even if CK manage to kill one of "viewpoints" of the Endless, there are still possibly other Deaths across the Void.Overture also showed that killing a single Endless isn't enough if you want to get rid of them permanently
So what can Ck do to permanent put Death down?
He needs to go into the Void (but that would make him 1-A right?) and eliminate the concept of Death not just in DC but across all those Creations in the Void
This function of Death, existing where death exists no matter where even across the Void would prevent CK from Perma killing her
Death isn't as limited as Destiny.While Destiny's power seems to diminish or maybe even disappear outside of Creation.Death does not, Death is there wherever the concept of Death exist.SHE IS the concept of death.Whenever there is something capable of dying.Death will exist and Death will be there
Death is the endless with the least restriction because her job requires her to be everywhere
So how far does Death's reach extend?
Claimed Elaine even though she is in Lucifer's creation, which is completely separated from the original Creation as shown when the Basanos was blinded by Lucifer's creation
This shows that Death is present even in the Creations in the Void
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11125/111258855/5215594-teleport.png
Maybe even present across all Creations in the Void
[1]
The void is infinite, the Void is the paper
Even Lucifer said Death is inevitable
So Death already claimed the Creation where silk man came from.That Creation is older than the current Creation and is likely that the Presence or Michael or Lucifer doesn't even exist during the time when this Creation exists.Yet Death already claimed it, so this seems to imply that the Endless are old, very old and as Lucifer said even fleeing to the Void won't help
So why is this important? this just means that Death is omnipresent or nigh omnipresent right? Each of those Creation is Creation similar to DC, similar to the Dark Tower and Death is present across all those Creations
As shown in The Sandman Overture, The Endless are just viewpoints.So each creature have different viewpoints
Crimson King might be able to Destroy the Dark Tower but Death is the end of all creations.All those possibly infinite creations in the Void.
Infinite Creations, not universes but other Creations like DC or Dark Tower
And as shown in Overture there's a different Endless for every being that exists
http://abload.de/image.php?img=2awj48.png
http://abload.de/image.php?img=2awj48.png
http://abload.de/image.php?img=3stk7l.png
http://abload.de/image.php?img=4h7xbh.png
Also even if CK manage to kill one of "viewpoints" of the Endless, there are still possibly other Deaths across the Void.Overture also showed that killing a single Endless isn't enough if you want to get rid of them permanently
So what can Ck do to permanent put Death down?
He needs to go into the Void (but that would make him 1-A right?) and eliminate the concept of Death not just in DC but across all those Creations in the Void
This function of Death, existing where death exists no matter where even across the Void would prevent CK from Perma killing her
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Also I'm not saying that Dark Tower is in the Void but rather you can think of those Creations as something similar to DC multiverse or the Dark Tower
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Crimson King for Negativity's reasoning.
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He won't be able to completely Destroy Death unless he can:
1) Erase the concept of Death not just in DC multiverse alone but all across the infinite Creations in the Void.That is assuming he can survive on the Void long enough to erase all concepts of Death
2)He's more powerful than the Presence
1) Erase the concept of Death not just in DC multiverse alone but all across the infinite Creations in the Void.That is assuming he can survive on the Void long enough to erase all concepts of Death
2)He's more powerful than the Presence
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- Thread starter
- #24
Well, the Dark Tower encompasses multiple infinite creations as well, as it is the nexus of absolutely all realities. I will again reference that one blog where it says Gan is one with literally all possible multiverses that could exist, not to mention the Man in Black's comments to the Gunslinger about every atom containing an infinite number of multiverses, to which universe is another atom in a larger universe which serves as another set of infinitely infinite multiverses. When the King's machine was destroyed, it affected ALL of these realities at once, so it's not far-fetched to think that without the Tower, that he could use his powers across all of existence at once.
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So does the DC multiverseAeyu said:
But those multiverses still exists in DT while the Creations in The Void are separated by... well the Void
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You can compare The Void to the Prim and all those Creations as something similar to the Dark Tower or DC
The only reason why Death is present across all of them is because her function requires her to be present everywhere where the concept of Death is present
The only reason why Death is present across all of them is because her function requires her to be present everywhere where the concept of Death is present
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- Thread starter
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But the King could extend his reach over voids as well, like the Todash Space, which existed between realities.
I'm not telling you you should change your vote, just giving context.
I'm not telling you you should change your vote, just giving context.
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Unless the The Todash Space is a 1-A space like the Void then still no.
The closest thing to The Void in DT verse is the Prim
The closest thing to The Void in DT verse is the Prim
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And also unless CK was shown to be able to destroy infinite Dark Towers separated by the Prim then he wont be able to permanent put down Death
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Death is the highest type of Void though
Even the Void isnt incomprehensible to the likes of Presence and Lucifer
Edit: I mean they still view the Void as infinite
Edit 2: I mean the Void is the highest type of void
Even the Void isnt incomprehensible to the likes of Presence and Lucifer
Edit: I mean they still view the Void as infinite
Edit 2: I mean the Void is the highest type of void
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Because those Creations are similar to DC multiverse and we know that DC multiverse like DT was shown to contain all possible multiverses.Aeyu said:
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Any feats of CK doing something like cleansing the concept of Death across an infinite High 1-A Void?
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...Yeah, I got nothing. Well played.
As such, however, this is still inconclusive. She can't effectively kill him thanks to his absolutely preposterous defenses and his separation from the death of the DT setting, while he can't effectively end her due to her function. Same vehicle as the last one, just with a new coat of paint.(At least red and black look good together, amirite?)
Minor Addendum: Wouldn't this make her reach 'Outerversal' rather than 'High Hyperversal'? If so, her range should be upgraded accordingly.
As such, however, this is still inconclusive. She can't effectively kill him thanks to his absolutely preposterous defenses and his separation from the death of the DT setting, while he can't effectively end her due to her function. Same vehicle as the last one, just with a new coat of paint.
Minor Addendum: Wouldn't this make her reach 'Outerversal' rather than 'High Hyperversal'? If so, her range should be upgraded accordingly.
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Outerversal implies that Death is also omnipresent across the Void itself.She isn't, Death is omnipresent on all creations, on all things (that has the concept of Death) separated by the Void.
It's just that she is inescapable that even if you go to an outerversal space she can reach you.Because you can still die and as long that concept exists so will Death.
There's also the fact that the end of The Book of Destiny shows that Death has to claim Destiny, so if CK cant kill Destiny then Death will live on or maybe he can change what's written on the book but as we discussed on the previous thread he probably cant because that means he's either going to contend against the Presence or Father Time who are both beyond his pay grade
It's just that she is inescapable that even if you go to an outerversal space she can reach you.Because you can still die and as long that concept exists so will Death.
There's also the fact that the end of The Book of Destiny shows that Death has to claim Destiny, so if CK cant kill Destiny then Death will live on or maybe he can change what's written on the book but as we discussed on the previous thread he probably cant because that means he's either going to contend against the Presence or Father Time who are both beyond his pay grade
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Now it seems the tides have turned...Hmm...I'll switch my vote to Inconclusive for now to see where this goes 
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- Thread starter
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Honestly, King, I would say that King's reach is Outerversal too, because he can navigate the Prim and Todash Space freely.
Not to mention King can restructure the entirety of a beyond-infinite reality to suit his needs, and could likely influence the Prim as well if not for Gan's prevention of such a thing.
Not to mention King's plotshields, plot manip, and whatnot.
Not to mention King can restructure the entirety of a beyond-infinite reality to suit his needs, and could likely influence the Prim as well if not for Gan's prevention of such a thing.
Not to mention King's plotshields, plot manip, and whatnot.
- Status
