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Crimson King (DT) vs Death of the Endless (DC)
- Thread starter Aeyu
- Start date
- Status
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Agh, I'm flipping drunk and forgot about that!
Ok, I will fix meow.
Ok, I will fix meow.
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Tfw the Crimson Queen is the mother of the King's avatar, but the true King is older than her.
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I've been wanting to make a thread like that, but DT matches (outside of the ones with Pennywise) have been so scarcely populated until recently that I wasn't sure there was even an audience for one of those threads here.
But yeah, enough derailing. We're still at four votes for inconclusive
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Death obviously wins, considering Dis' direct avatar lost to some nerd who draws pictures, a flower, and Charles Miner from "The Office".
On a serious note, my money is most likely on inconclusive, though if youasked me to shoot with my mind put a gun to my head, I'd probably have a very slight leaning towards Dis due to just how potent some of his fate and narrative based abilities are.
On a serious note, my money is most likely on inconclusive, though if you
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^I was originally banking on Dis winning this with said fate/narrative powers, believe it or not. But then that argument got hard-countered like a son of a bitch.
Even though he can't put her down for good, I'd reckon he's actually the stronger of the two in terms of both his sheer power and his abilities themselves (A smalll case in point being how Death VS PR Beyonder was considered fair, but Dis VS PR Beyonder was agreed to be a stomp. Which is actually pretty ******* nonsensical, since both of those fights literally boil down to "Beyonder can't kill them and gets outhaxed hard")
Anywho, five for inconclusive?
Even though he can't put her down for good, I'd reckon he's actually the stronger of the two in terms of both his sheer power and his abilities themselves (A smalll case in point being how Death VS PR Beyonder was considered fair, but Dis VS PR Beyonder was agreed to be a stomp. Which is actually pretty ******* nonsensical, since both of those fights literally boil down to "Beyonder can't kill them and gets outhaxed hard")
Anywho, five for inconclusive?
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- Thread starter
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If you can argue in favor of Dis, go all for it. I still think that DC's "creations," aren't > DT's infinitely infinitely infinite multiverses and every other layer of creation imaginable, for instance. Also, she had no claim over 1-A or higher entities like Lucifer of Michael, anyway. Additionally, I see there being no way CK would be affected by the book since he was beyond all of existence anyway.
I will add based on further clarification.
I will add based on further clarification.
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From what I gather, it's not so much that they're 'superior' to the DT setting. It's due to the fact that they're functionally the same as the DT setting, but there's a literal infinite number of them within DC's Void.
Which would basically mean that Dis has to travel to literally all of them and obliterate them one by one in order to rid himself of Death for good. That's like an immormal man wandering through an endless realm full of plates and trying to smash them all in order to win a contest.
Has nothing to do with Dis being inferior, as I already clarified why that isn't the case. It's just a consequence of DC's verse itself being infinitely larger in scale than the DT verse ever set out to be.
Which would basically mean that Dis has to travel to literally all of them and obliterate them one by one in order to rid himself of Death for good. That's like an immormal man wandering through an endless realm full of plates and trying to smash them all in order to win a contest.
Has nothing to do with Dis being inferior, as I already clarified why that isn't the case. It's just a consequence of DC's verse itself being infinitely larger in scale than the DT verse ever set out to be.
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Let me explain this as best I can.
Imagine the Prim, a vast, outerversal (we're going to assume it's outerversal) space where Gan and beings of comparable stature exist and thrive. The realm in which Gan lives transcends the Dark Tower, an infinitely-layered multiverse.
Now imagine everything in the main DC setting which exists underneath the Void. Existence underneath the Void been proven to be just as infinitely-layered as the creation which is held together by the Dark Tower, and the Void has been proven to be an outerversal space which transcends that infinite layering. This is concrete.
Suppose for just this moment that the Void and the Prim are the same place, and that the infinitely-layered creation which serves as DC's main setting exists right next-door to the infinitely-layered creation which serves as DT's main setting. Both are the same size, and both exist underneath this outerversal void.
Now let's take that vision even further. Suppose those two realms of the same size are simply two of their kind, existing in an infinitely-reaching sea of other High Hyperversal realms which are also the exact same size as the two of them are on their own, all of which are encompassed by the outerversal void surrounding/transcending them.
And Death is present somewhere in each and every one.
That's what's preventing the King from ending her for good: He can't reach all of that shit at once. Even if he can wander the void sitting above all of these realms, his comparatively limited reach means that, regardless of his raw power and ridiculous abilities, he can only effectively destroy one at a time.
As The Man In Black said to The Gunslinger, "Size defeats us!"sorrynotsorry
Imagine the Prim, a vast, outerversal (we're going to assume it's outerversal) space where Gan and beings of comparable stature exist and thrive. The realm in which Gan lives transcends the Dark Tower, an infinitely-layered multiverse.
Now imagine everything in the main DC setting which exists underneath the Void. Existence underneath the Void been proven to be just as infinitely-layered as the creation which is held together by the Dark Tower, and the Void has been proven to be an outerversal space which transcends that infinite layering. This is concrete.
Suppose for just this moment that the Void and the Prim are the same place, and that the infinitely-layered creation which serves as DC's main setting exists right next-door to the infinitely-layered creation which serves as DT's main setting. Both are the same size, and both exist underneath this outerversal void.
Now let's take that vision even further. Suppose those two realms of the same size are simply two of their kind, existing in an infinitely-reaching sea of other High Hyperversal realms which are also the exact same size as the two of them are on their own, all of which are encompassed by the outerversal void surrounding/transcending them.
And Death is present somewhere in each and every one.
That's what's preventing the King from ending her for good: He can't reach all of that shit at once. Even if he can wander the void sitting above all of these realms, his comparatively limited reach means that, regardless of his raw power and ridiculous abilities, he can only effectively destroy one at a time.
As The Man In Black said to The Gunslinger, "Size defeats us!"
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It's not that CK would be affected by the Book, Its that he cant do anything against the bookAeyu said:
Also, Destiny isn't the one who created or wrote the Book, Its either father Time or The Presence himself both who are obviously above CK.
the Book also is the representation of the Presence's deterministic approach to Creation.
The Void is like a Void beyond Void.Its above several outerversal voids like The Realm of Mother Night, The realm where the angels took Dr. Fate and the realm of Father Time.We know that the Void is at least 3 times higher than 3 outerversal Voids.What you're suggesting is that CK can restructure a Void that is above 3 outerversal Void and is also a High 1-A entity
Also, Creations constantly rise and fall, for CK to completely stop those then he needs to change the very nature of the Void itself
We both know that there's no way in hell that Crimson King is going to change the nature of a High 1-A entity
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^Basically that.
He's stronger than her by an order of magnitude, and technically has better hax than her, but the very nature of what keeps her alive and present is infinitely above even the likes of him.
Reason I gave up even trying to make a point against it is because it's not something we can really argue against in the first place. It's a matter of size and scale.
He's stronger than her by an order of magnitude, and technically has better hax than her, but the very nature of what keeps her alive and present is infinitely above even the likes of him.
Reason I gave up even trying to make a point against it is because it's not something we can really argue against in the first place. It's a matter of size and scale.
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1) I have seen a scan or comment of an author that The Presence was created by faith of mortals. Dark Tower Hyperverse contains all fictional (dreams, faith ect) and non-fictional worlds (the one character may be a fictional in the one world but if you enter to it you can see him as a real character)
2) Also the Dark Tower Biggerverse contains Cthulhu Mythos verse within itself:
'Sometimes,' Vetter said, stealing another of Farnham's Silk Cuts, 'I wonder about Dimensions.'
'Dimensions?'
'Yes, my good old son ― dimensions. Science fiction writers are always on about Dimensions, aren't they? Ever read science fiction, Farnham?'
'No,' Farnham said. He had decided this was some sort of elaborate leg-pull.
'What about Lovecraft? Ever read anything by him?'
'Never heard of him,' Farnham said. The last fiction he'd read for pleasure, in fact, had been a small Victorian Era pastiche called Two Gentlemen in Silk Knickers.
'Well, this fellow Lovecraft was always writing about Dimensions,' Vetter said, producing his box of railway matches. 'Dimensions close to ours. Full of these immortal monsters that would drive a man mad at one look. Frightful rubbish, of course. Except, whenever one of these people straggles in, I wonder if all of it was rubbish. I think to myself then ― when it's quiet and late at night, like now ― that our whole world, everything we think of as nice and normal and sane, might be like a big leather ball filled with air. Only in some places, the leather's scuffed almost down to nothing. Places where the barriers are thinner. Do you get me?' - Crouch End
But seriously I vote for "inconclusive".
2) Also the Dark Tower Biggerverse contains Cthulhu Mythos verse within itself:
'Sometimes,' Vetter said, stealing another of Farnham's Silk Cuts, 'I wonder about Dimensions.'
'Dimensions?'
'Yes, my good old son ― dimensions. Science fiction writers are always on about Dimensions, aren't they? Ever read science fiction, Farnham?'
'No,' Farnham said. He had decided this was some sort of elaborate leg-pull.
'What about Lovecraft? Ever read anything by him?'
'Never heard of him,' Farnham said. The last fiction he'd read for pleasure, in fact, had been a small Victorian Era pastiche called Two Gentlemen in Silk Knickers.
'Well, this fellow Lovecraft was always writing about Dimensions,' Vetter said, producing his box of railway matches. 'Dimensions close to ours. Full of these immortal monsters that would drive a man mad at one look. Frightful rubbish, of course. Except, whenever one of these people straggles in, I wonder if all of it was rubbish. I think to myself then ― when it's quiet and late at night, like now ― that our whole world, everything we think of as nice and normal and sane, might be like a big leather ball filled with air. Only in some places, the leather's scuffed almost down to nothing. Places where the barriers are thinner. Do you get me?' - Crouch End
But seriously I vote for "inconclusive".
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Dude, no.We don't do that shit here.Dark Tower doesn't contain Cthulu Mythos.If we use that then everything contains everything
DC also claims to contain every fiction multiverses but we don't use that here because DC doesn't own all fictional works in existence.Same for Marvel
The Presence is 1-A if you're thinking that CK can defeat the presence or counter him then create a Content Revision Thread to downgrade the Presence
DC also claims to contain every fiction multiverses but we don't use that here because DC doesn't own all fictional works in existence.Same for Marvel
The Presence is 1-A if you're thinking that CK can defeat the presence or counter him then create a Content Revision Thread to downgrade the Presence
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Also it depends on winconditions.
If it is "I can destroy your hyperverse faster than you mine" or "I'm able to rip Pre Retcon Beyonder to shreds faster than you" then I vote for TCK.
If it is "I can destroy your hyperverse faster than you mine" or "I'm able to rip Pre Retcon Beyonder to shreds faster than you" then I vote for TCK.
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It was a joke.TheSandman31 said:
I vote for "inconclusive".
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Anyway, that reasoning is invalid, its as if you're claiming that the Presence exists in DT.
DT is hyperverse, so is DC
The Presence Outerversal
No dude.Stop
DT is hyperverse, so is DC
The Presence Outerversal
No dude.Stop
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well ok.If you say so
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I also want to add that CK isn't just battling a single Death but rather all perspectives of Death in existence.Means that he needs to kill a lot of Deaths since all perspectives of Death has always existed
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Well, anywho, that's six for Inconclusive. Just need one more.
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Did I...vote yet? Because if not...yeah...
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So vote.
"Inconclusive FRA"
That's what you shall say
"Inconclusive FRA"
That's what you shall say
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@Cal: Nope. You didn't. lol
@Js: The fate of the world rests upon your shoulders this day.
@Js: The fate of the world rests upon your shoulders this day.
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Welp, that makes 7 votes for Inconclusive. (potentially 8, if I'm reading into Cal's comment correctly)
We still have one person who voted for CK way back towards the top of the thread, I think. But other than that, I think this is a fairly decisive conclusion.
We still have one person who voted for CK way back towards the top of the thread, I think. But other than that, I think this is a fairly decisive conclusion.
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Yes, you're reading my comment correctly.
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So....Grace? Or do we add immediately?
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I checked, and the only vote left for CK is basically a FRA vote latched onto my own reasoning. (Which I changed)
Probably doesn't count at this point, admittedly.
Probably doesn't count at this point, admittedly.
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Remember when he was a pathetically weak 1A?Js250476 said:
Best. Downgrades. Ever.
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By extension, this also means that Gan and Bessa are even more un-****-withable High 1-Bs than CK is, since they're both vastly superior to him in-canon.
Although, going by the above info, even those two wouldn't be able to do more than stalemate the Endless in a fight. (Especially if we're lowballing them to High 1-B)
And yes, "un-****-withable" is a word now.
Although, going by the above info, even those two wouldn't be able to do more than stalemate the Endless in a fight. (Especially if we're lowballing them to High 1-B)
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King.
Want to meet in a private chat?
Want to meet in a private chat?
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Can't right now. RL is calling to me.
Maybe later today, though.
Maybe later today, though.
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I am pleased with this result. Now my abomination can officially be Canon via VS. Battles.
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- Thread starter
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Should I request this thread or have one of you done it already?
Also, someone give me another matchup. The Brothers Yin and Yang, perhaps?
Also, someone give me another matchup. The Brothers Yin and Yang, perhaps?
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Inconclusive for the reasons above the reason above.
- Status
