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Crimson King (DT) vs Death of the Endless (DC)

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Even if he is the outcome would be the same.

Death and even Destiny are just characters in a book written by beings vastly above them.

Destiny even said it, the reason why he can read about himself is that he himself is inside the Book.We know that CK cant change the story of the book because that would mean he needs to contend with a powerful 1-A like the Presence if he can change the story maybe he can change that ending.As long as the last entity that is Destiny is alive then Death will continue to exist because her function isn't over

so I vote inconclusive
 
@Aeyu:

Navigating a 1-A space =/= having Outerversal reach. Any man can walk the Earth, but that doesn't mean he can shake the world.

Even if we do assume that (and unlike Gan's 1-A tier, there is no evidence suggesting we can), he's never been shown influencing creations outside of the DT setting. Not with his plot manip, not with his fate manip, not with anything he has at his disposal.

I'm as familiar with the verse (especially its villains) as anyone, and even I can say for certain that he doesn't shoot that far. If there's one thing in DT he can't manipulate, it's his own limitations.
 
@Sandman:

Yeah, it's inconclusive no matter what. She's not going to outlive a deity who predates creation and is unbound to the death of the creation he's omnipresent throughout, and she's otherwise unable to kill him due to every defensive measure he has. And it's fairly apparent at this point that he can't defeat or incapacitate her either.

Inconclusive 2: Electric Boogaloo
 
Death is also going to outlive the end of existence, as shown when she claimed Destiny and just "locked behind" creation

So it's going to be an eternal stalemate
 
CK is lucky, Death seems like a fun person to spend eternity with.I prefer being with Death over spending eternity with an old man like Destiny lol
 
@Aeyu: She couldn't, no.

@Sandman. I would certainly think so. And hey, their colors go together quite well, like I said before.

He could probably entertain her with the story of how he almost unwittingly gave her another High Hyperversal realm of existence to claim.
 
Aeyu said:
Has this turned into a shipping thread...?
O.O
Click to expand...
What if they both settled there differences and just started to notice that they were deathly feared users of death and stuff, and Death wants The King to talk more just so she can take more people and have more work to do, while also settling how different their personalities are? As they say, opposites attract ;3

On a serious note, I'll stick with inconclusive for reasons stated, Neither can really...put the other down at all.

Forgot to say, but is shot.
 
Idk King, seems like you and Sandman were kindling some chemistry for those two O.O

and I mean, Kitty does have a point...

All votes have been counted so far, though.
 
>"and Death wants The King to talk more just so she can take more people"

My sides...That is without a doubt the most terrifying thing, but the wording is just so hilarious.
 
So, inconclusive due to them putting aside their differences and working together?

King has hung around with worse (coughMordredcough)
 
Tfw the literal abstract embodiment of Death is more likable than your own son.

Yeah, that sounds about right. They're both smart, what with one being nigh-omniscient and the other possessing knowledge infinitely greater than anyone below him. They'll eventually realize that their 'fight' is going nowhere, then say the cosmic equivalent of "**** it, whatever.".
 
Also, this means DC Comics and The Dark Tower are officially tied for having the strongest High 1-B characters on the wiki.

The Crimson King stomped numerous characters in the tier, then stalemated the two strongest members of the Endless. It doesn't get much more concrete than that.
 
RIP Gar's cognition.

Read the rest of the thread. You might find this a bit funny.
 
No worries. lol

Also, this wasn't the only thread I linked to your wall. Make sure you look at the other one after you're finished here.
 
You can still vote either way

but you have to give reasons why

he still has 2 votes
 
Oh I know.

Can we even call the Dark Tower revisions a downgrade? Gan didn't completely lose his 1A rating, we got another possibly 1A, and we have three new insanely power High 1Bs who can compete with the best of the best.
 
Aeyu said:
You can still vote either way
but you have to give reasons why

he still has 2 votes
Click to expand...
After fully reading the thread I have to agree and go with Inconclusive for the King of Debatings reasons.
 
At this point, I think the DT god-tiers' "downgrade" might just be one of the most worthwhile things I've seen achieved on here. At least in my opinion.
 
And hey, man. Don't go selling Sandman short now. Both threads were in Dis's favor until he showed up. lol

He deserves just as much credit here as anyone.
 
Honestly

They might need an upgrade again if I add Maerlyn's profile

It depends how that goes, but...he could be 1-B, possibly higher

even High 1-B, possibly 1-A

since he corrupted part of Gan's essence

and predated the Crimson King

as well as creating multiple dimensions
 
The Crimson King imprisoned Maerlyn and turned him into a 'tyger' years prior to Roland's birth. The latter is definitely not more powerful than the former.

And before you say it, the bit in the source blog about there being 'two twinners' of Maerlyn is wrong. They were never stated to be different entities from each other, and such a thing wouldn't be possible anyway, as the concept of 'twinners' only exists within creation. (meaning it doesn't apply to beings originating from the Prim)
 
He's definitely above the Old Ones, however, and is confirmed to be a demon of the Prim.
 
Also, I would like to quote this, which might hint that Maerlyn is actually above Los:

A tyger is a large animal that is predominantly orange with black stripes.

[1]
Tim Ross faces Maerlyn, transformed into a tyger

It is a descendant of the feline family and looks like a large cat with sharp teeth and claws. It is similar to the tiger of our level of the Tower, save the spelling of its species.

The only appearance of a tyger in The Dark Tower Series is in The Wind Through the Keyhole , when Tim Ross finds Maerly transformed into one by "one far greater than he of the broad cloak." Maerlyn tells Tim that he was tricked by an emissary of the Crimson King that came by his cave posing as a wandering peddler. He goes on to say that even though he was more powerful than the deceiver he fell victim because he was drunk.
 
'The deciever' refers to said emissary, not the Crimson King. Being more powerful than one of CK's emissaries is not quite the same as being more powerful than the King himself. Such is also evidenced by the fact that CK was able to outright force him to stay in the form of a tyger for years, an act which (assuming Maerlyn has the same type of effortless shapeshifting abilities as his so) most certainly would not be possible if he were any more powerful than the King. And Dis can't actively transmute anyone in-canon due to being locked out of creation, so the one who turned him into a tyger was definitely Los'.

And yeah, he should be quite far above the Imperium. But at the very best, he would still be situated somewhere between said Old Ones and the Crimson King. His addition to the wiki wouldn't upgrade anyone. (for better or for worse)

In regards to the blog we're using, most of it is accurate and extremely well-sourced. But there are a few bits, such as Maerlyn having a weaker 'twinner' and 'Legion', 'the Ageless Stranger' and Andre Linoge being the same entity as Randall Flagg, which are simple headcanon at best. As a case-in-point, Linoge in particular being an incarnation of Flagg was actually denied a while back by Stephen King himself much in the same way that he denied Dandelo and Pennywise being the same entity. (Although I forget where the exact source of his word on Linoge is)

Anywho, we're kinda derailing the thread at this point. I'm sure this'll come up again once we start creating Maerlyn's page for the wiki, but this isn't really the time and place for talking about it.
 
I bring it up because it might have affected this matchup, and I also intend on making his page when the wiki stops being under lockdown.
 
Ah. Well, sadly, it won't change anything here. I already mentioned it above, but the fact that Dis can't actually transmute anyone in-canon thanks to being locked out of creation means it was Los' who transmuted him. And the fact that it was transmutation of such a nature that Maerlyn couldn't turn himself back, despite the guy most likely being able to shapeshift into whatever living thing he wants (again, the same way his son can do), would serve as fairly solid proof that his power doesn't surpass that of the King's avatar.

He was the key element behind the Old Ones' strongest form of tech though, so he's still a good deal above them at least.
 
Maerlyn's Rainbow, also known as the Bends o' the Bow or Wizard's Rainbow, consists of thirteen colored spheres. The first twelve represent the Twelve Guardians of the Beams, each having the secret of a different form of magic; the last, Black Thirteen, represents the Dark Tower itself, which was filled with the evil of the monster-infested void that existed between worlds.

Black Thirteen embodying the power of a dimensionless void, anyone? :^)
 
Aeyu said:
Black Thirteen embodying the power of a dimensionless void, anyone? :^)
Click to expand...
Yes, that would...make sense :^)

Also this thread has inspired me to create something so horrific that it is beyond any form of comprehension.
 
Late seeing this, but...

The thing about 'the monster-infested void that existed between worlds' is referring to Todash Darkness, the space between universes. Which isn't dimensionless, sadly, as it's still governed by the Tower and its floors.

Todash Darkness contains creatures born from the Prim, but very few Prim beings are actually Crimson King-tier, judging from Oracles, Succubi, the monsters from The Mist and the Tunnel Demon.
 
Also, LOL at this...thing sending Roland to his death at the hands of Jonah Hex.

...

Hmmm...Seeing Hex's face again gives me an idea...
 
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