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The Crimson King (Dark Tower) vs Destiny of the Endless (DC)

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That's what we're trying to figure out.

Also @MrKing the hype is very real O.O
 
Well I mean, they both have fairly strong hax that should get through High-Godly regen...I think. But as to who's superior? I dunno.

One thing I'm wondering is whether or not the Endless can actually affect each other with their powers, since the True King should easily be comparable to them with his respective abilities. I know the Endless are bound by a code that prevents them from actively harming each other, but could their powers do so if they wanted?
 
I don't know anything about The Crimson King other than his picture is badass, but does he sorta affect a 1-A in a similar way that Destiny does to Lucifer?

If not than I'm inclined to believe that Destiny would win.
 
Just curious this match is hype but is there a reason Destiny was chosen of the Endless in particular?
 
I'm late responding to this bit, but IIRC the thing about Death claiming the others is simply an an analogy to how everything in creation eventually dies. I don't think it makes her inherently superior to the others, but I may be wrong.

As for powers? Fate Manip might be in Destiny's favor (literal abstract embodiment of the concept of fate and all), but the King is certainly going to hold his own as far as that goes, as his own fate manipulation can oppose Gan, the abstract embodiment of creation and the being who essentially created fate within the DT verse. ('Ka', the verse's equivalent to fate, is literally just Gan's will)

I'll probably need time to look at the other details.
 
I remember reading on Lucifer's profile that he burned Destiny's book could King do something similar or is that only for 1-A?
 
I can't remember, but I don't think burning Destiny's book actually did anything.

Although, with CK's degree of plot manipulation, the King could potentially do something akin to 'rewriting' the book.
 
Well, one of his minions was able to pervert the abstract nature of Gan's existence, which led to the incarnation of his physical form (1-B higher with hax Maerlyn when), so I think it's fair to assume that he can affect Gan in a similar way. The only reason he's limited by the Tower is because Gan is embodying it. If Gan's spirit was cut off, which happens with the fall of the Beams, CK could reorganize the entirety of existence in his image.

Also, dat Plot Manip.

And King, do you think that Dis could qualify for possible True Godly regen now that one no longer needs to be a 1-A to receive it? When the Prim receded, Dis survived.
 
MrKingOfNegativity said:
Snip
Click to expand...
This is quite impressive, but still I feel Destiny's Fate Manipulation is greater as it afflicts Lucifer.

A definite 1-A being unlike Gan whose's possibly 1-A, not to mention Lucifer is quite a bit above baseline as well so it's even more impressive.

Though as I said I know nothing of The Crimson King (or any of Stephan King's works), and you seem like an expert.
 
Adding on, the thing about Gan's 'possibly 1-A' is that it isn't due to him being on some tier-border. (such a thing doesn't actually exist at this level; the weakest 1-A will always be infinitely superior to the most powerful High 1-B) What it comes from is the context of a statement that implies he either A) created all of the infinite dimensions of the verse from his physical being and is the reason all of them are aligned, or B) spun the very concept of dimensions from his physical being and is the reason said dimensions are able to exist to begin with.

The latter interpretation makes him 1-A, and it also puts him above baseline. And regardless of either interpretation, he essentially spun the multiverse (and everything in it) from his navel in a matter of moments.

And the King, while nowhere near as powerful, is capable of opposing his will.
 
...Looking this over, I have a question.

What can Destiny do that will legitimately end the Crimson King for good? I don't normally evoke this argument (as there's usually a whole lot of other things to work with when it comes to CK), but the combination of High-Godly regen and natural resistance to Existence Erasure makes killing him...well, hard. And now that I'm actually looking at Destiny's powers, I don't see anything that naturally bypasses regen on that level. Only thing I see that would potentially incapacitate him for good is mind manipulation, and since the King has that too, that's just another question of which one is inherently stronger in that area.

The King himself, meanwhile, has death manipulation. Really strong death manipulation. And plot manipulation powerful enough to oppose Gan. (Who, for context, is the source of all stories that exist within the verse and has actually been stated to be the 'author of all there is') Is Destiny missing any particularly lethal powers here, or does the profile cover everything he is capable of?
 
This is why I made this thread. It will take forever to find out who wins, who loses, or if it's inconclusive.
 
I feel inclined to go for The King as well. If what I'm noticing is correct, his Plot Manipulation even affects Gan who is pretty much the creator of the verse and it's concepts. That might just be enough to overcome Destiny and his extremely potent Fate Manipulation. Still I'm not voting because of how close this seems so far and I might be missing a few things, but I am slightly leaning towards The King for now at least.
 
Now, the King's plot manip can't necessarily 'affect' Gan, but it's strong enough to reverse Gan's own plot manip to an extent. Which means it's still a massive factor.

CK's fate manip is the same. Not as strong as Gan's, but still enough to fight against the latter's own. That much is serious due to Gan having literally created fate itself within DT, as I mentioned above.
 
Ah, so it more can fight back against Gan's Plot Manipulation. I see, so yeah, still extremely powerful either way. O.O

Stil leaning slightly towards him due to this factor but hrm...Destiny did directly "affect" Lucifer so how much will this play a factor?
 
My vote is basically hinging on whether or not Destiny has any way to put Dis down for good, since the latter's combination of defenses is almost impregnable. (even for his own tier)

I don't think Destiny has actually been shown resisting death manipulation on his level (since, again, he and the other Endless are bound to a code that says they're not allowed to hurt each other and they're basically the strongest High 1-Bs in the DC cosmology), and the King is kind of a monster in that area too. His vastly weaker avatar causes random individuals in the world to spontaneously die just as a direct consequence of him holding a conversation, and can kill beings just by wishing it so according to one of his underlings. It's also presumable that this is one of the reasons Gan locked him out of creation instead of just outright killing him, as Gan has his own control over life and death.

Basically, if Destiny has no way to put him down for good, then this becomes the good old 'one guy regens from everything until he can destroy the other guy' scenario.
 
Looking over everything, it honestly would seem that way. Idk, they're both really close in the first place...But like you said, it really hinges on Destiny being able to kill CK at all, while it seems as if CK already has some means to do so, it would just take a long while.
 
So is that 2-0 in King's favor, or are you sure of your votes?
 
If Destiny can't defeat the King's High-Godly, Erasure Resistance and plot shields, then I'd actually say this is a clear-cut win for the latter.

So...yeah. The Crimson King has my vote for now.
 
Nods Yeah, I'm pretty sure now. Unless Destiny has a way of Ending The King that would also be Crucial to this match-up, I doubt he's taking it. So yup! Crimson King has my vote o3o
 
Then we have 2-0, with no currently defined inconclusive votes.
 
Destiny can affect any being as long as they're inside Creation.The entire Creation is his book and anything that is inside Creation can be affected by Destiny, even Lucifer.

The Map of Multiverse also shows Destiny is above the realm of the monitors meaning even the entire race of Plot Manipulating/real-life writer allegory Monitors are inside Destiny's book

What you should remember is that the power of the Endless when it comes to their function are almost absolute.But just like why Death isn't above Destiny even though she will one day kill him it's because of their function, not their AP

So we know that the Presence was created by Dreams of humanity, Dreams of humanity that came from an earlier version of Creation Its confirmed that there are earlier versions of Creation because the Silk Man came from a much [http:// http://i.imgur.com/fe5rw0n.jpg?1 earlier creation than the Presence] .So what changes Creation? what causes Creation to revert back and have its history rewritten? Its dreams

Dreams, stories, and beliefs can retroactively recreate Creation.As shown when the Titans almost became God and the time where creation reverted because the story of the Garden of Eden was changed

https://readcomics.io/images/manga/the-dreaming/3/21.jpg https://readcomics.io/images/manga/the-dreaming/3/14.jpg

And as said by Father Time he gave Destiny all he has.His book contains all version of creations, the past Creation where silk man came from and the current Creation where The Presence is God.His book contains everything, from the very start where the coming of Father Time and Night made everything possible, including dreams.Father Time gave Destiny all he has so his book should contain all versions of Creation

So the Endless are function space as said in the Overture, they hold almost absolute control over their respective functions but that doesn't necessarily equate to their AP

They're the function of space that enables the birth of the Presence.

But it's still Presence >>>>Destiny. Because it's been implied that the Presence is the one who wrote the contents of Destiny's book

Think of Creation as a script that can be rewritten.But the Presence is out of that script, remember that escaping the Book or Creation is extremely hard the only way you can escape it is if you have the Presence's permission

https://i.imgur.com/IiD0etO.jpg

A book created from the shadow of the destiny's true book

was said to have the power to control all the known and unknown universes and all of space and time in the creation

https://imgur.com/vAlfKT3

So basically a monk managed to create a book made from the Shadow of the Shadow of knowledge that is in Destiny's book.So how powerful is this book that is probably nowhere near the 1 percent of the power of the real Book ofDestiny? Apparently, it has enough power to shred and remade all of Creation and all known and unknown universes

even though Destiny might seem under haxed, he probably won't need that many hacks because his Fate and Destiny manipulation are one of the most potent in fiction

I vote Destiny
 
MrKingOfNegativity said:
I can't remember, but I don't think burning Destiny's book actually did anything.
Although, with CK's degree of plot manipulation, the King could potentially do something akin to 'rewriting' the book.
Click to expand...
The only one in DC that was shown to be powerful enough to rewrite the book was 1-As like the Presence and probably Night and Time.I doubt that CK can rewrite the Book

Even Michael and Lucifer, as shown in the Yggdrasil Arc, cant do anything to manipulate the events written in Destiny's book.Even Lucifers act of burning a page from Destiny's book was written and already known by Destiny

Let's also not forget about the Basanos who outprepped Lucifer and defeated him.They might be nowhere near powerful as Lucifer but their foresight brought Lucifer down.Remember that the Basanos are created by Meleos and they are made from the pages/knowledge of Destiny's book

As you can see, Destiny's Fate and Destiny manipulation are extremely potent.


 
Anything that is inside Creation is inside Destiny's book, even Lucifer.That's why the Basanos was able to defeat him because they already know the actions Lucifer would take.Also, even Lucifer can't get out of Creation and the only reason why he was able to get out of Creation was because the Presence let him get out.There's also the fact that in the comics the endless wasn't mentioned to be Created by Lucifer and Michaels act of creation but as a side effect of The Presence's creation, not Michaels or Lucifer's but as Lucifer himself said "by his father"

The only reason why the Basanos who knows everything that is written in the Book was unable to see Lucifers action was because they're blinded by Lucifer's creation.Lucifer's creation which is out of the domain of the Endless.Lucifer's creation isn't part of Book, that's why the Basanos were blinded

So it's not that Lucifer is outside of Destiny's book.

He's outside when he is outside Creation like in his multiverse or in the void but when he was inside Creation he is still part of Destiny's book.Why? Because Destiny's Book is the Plan of the Presence.I mean part of the Book as in as long he is in Creation, Destiny knows everything he would do
 
On the other hand members of the Endless are more or less equal to each other and Dream of the Endless has been captured by satanists.

Kingverse Gods haven't fails/weaknesses.
 
@jockey-1337


really dude?

Did you know that that was a weakened Dream after he saved the entire Creation and remade it from scratch?

and that those shit won't actually work on Death and it's been said that they're ****** if they actually captured Death instead of Dream? That Madame Xanadu performed almost the same ritual and Death just straight up ignored and walked out of it?

That CK's plot manipulation won't work on Destiny, given that only The Presence was shown to be able to forcibly rewrite the book and that even Michael or Lucifer cant?

That there is a race of plot manipulating High 1-B entities inside Destiny's book.That there were was once infinite numbers of those entities?

That a shadow of a shadow of knowledge from the Book of Destiny can rip the entire Creation to shreds?
 
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