- 239
- 107
- Thread starter
- #81
hearts can also erase type 1 acausals and is implied to be able to erase type 4 acausals as well
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Zeus is up against another Godslayer... | Hearts (SDBH) Vs. Zeus (GOW) | (12-1-7)
- Thread starter Spicy78
- Start date
- Status
- 18,664
- 18,751
Fairs. Fear itself should be fine and I guess the debate would be if the erasure would effect its unity with Zeus.
- 239
- 107
- Thread starter
- #83
imo, it would. unless i'm missing out in GOW's UES page, it's never stated that the causality and/or the being's place in time is a part of the soul (its only stated both that gods are acausal, but hearts can interact with acausals anyways; and that souls predate time, but predating something doesn't grant anything by itself. they don't have BDE, so they're still bound by time), so when hearts erases zeus, he would both erase every interaction that zeus had in the world, including the moment when fear and zeus' soul become one, and erase his fate to become fear itself
Last edited:
- 239
- 107
- Thread starter
- #84
sure, it is fear, but zeus being fear and the great evils themselves are different. one's soul became a concept as an effect of a cause, that hearts would just delete; while the others are concepts that have existed, exist, and will exist for all of time; they are concepts because they have emerged as that before time even existed
- 18,664
- 18,751
Zeus' soul is also a concept, albeit a lesser one than the Evils. While he came into being after time began with his father, souls generally can exist without spacetime in the verse.
Also, wouldn't Fear still corrupt Hearts after that, even assuming it was separated from Zeus?
- 239
- 107
- Thread starter
- #86
after hearts erases zeus' history, his link with the great evils is no more, so he wouldn't be able to resurrect as a concept. now, that out of the way, are souls alone in GOW capable of regenerating a body on their own, without need of external help
zeus would be erased, so he'd still win. he'd just come out of more busted out of the fight lol
- 12,472
- 4,482
The history of his body really means nothing here, as Zeus' mind, his soul and the Fear itself will remain intact, so he will still remember all he needs to in regards of this fight, as his souls' history wouldn't change since it is Fear itself......so that wouln't work
Zeus is Fear, therefore he isn't dead or erased
- 239
- 107
- Thread starter
- #88
- 12,472
- 4,482
That would only be possible if he was able to erase Zeus' soul's history, which is what Fear fused with, again, his body here is inconsequential, his soul is what he needs to erase to have anyway to bypass Fear
- 12,472
- 4,482
Btw i don't see History erasure on Hearts' profile
- 18,664
- 18,751
It's there.
- 12,472
- 4,482
- 239
- 107
- Thread starter
- #94
...
zeus' body isn't relevant to this discussion at all, his history is. history is literally on par with concepts, information and plot as a fundamental aspect of a character. this ain't just your average body-erasing EE. hell, hearts could just erase zeus' birth and that'll be GG, as he doesn't have a concept if the concept doesn't get to exist in the first place. GOW souls don't have the ability to restore his literal prevention for their existence
- 12,472
- 4,482
That is the point, Hearts can't interact with Zeus' soul to be able erase ITS history with fusing with Fear, thus making it irrelevant as the one thing that matters for Fear would still be there
- 239
- 107
- Thread starter
- #96
IT'S NEVER STATED THAT THE HISTORY IS A PART OF THE SOUL
arale can plot hax zeus until oblivion, right? as plot and concept, unless shown otherwise, are not a part of each other, right? then, history is the exact same. it has the same interaction, it's like you're treating history as a lesser thing that concepts, info, plot, etc
- 239
- 107
- Thread starter
- #98
hell, even planck said in an arale vs kratos thread that her plot manipulation would screw him over (despite his conceptual invulneravility and arale not having conceptual manip herself) and kratos could do the same with her via his conceptual manip (despite him not having any plothax) 
history is in the same scope of "fundamentability" than plot and concepts, but somehow history has to interact with concepts?????????????
history is in the same scope of "fundamentability" than plot and concepts, but somehow history has to interact with concepts?????????????
- 239
- 107
- Thread starter
- #99
absolutely agreed with you. both can incap each other with a simple hand gesture and are willing to do so as a first move
- 12,472
- 4,482
...........what is your point? When have i affirmed that it is?
No? Hearts simply has no way to interact with concepts at all, thus he has no way to erase them as he can't even interact with them to begin with
- 239
- 107
- Thread starter
- #102
hell, even planck said in an arale vs kratos thread that her plot manipulation would screw him over (despite his conceptual invulneravility and arale not having conceptual manip herself) and kratos could do the same with her via his conceptual manip (despite him not having any plothax)
history is in the same scope of "fundamentability" than plot and concepts, but somehow history has to interact with concepts?????????????
- 5,802
- 7,432
Actually, there are no extra steps. It's literally just that.
I'm gonna vote incon on the basis that history and concepts are separate aspects with no superiority over each other.
- 12,472
- 4,482
Fear is more fundamental/abstract than other type 1 concepts, sohell, even planck said in an arale vs kratos thread that her plot manipulation would screw him over (despite his conceptual invulneravility and arale not having conceptual manip herself) and kratos could do the same with her via his conceptual manip (despite him not having any plothax)
history is in the same scope of "fundamentability" than plot and concepts, but somehow history has to interact with concepts?????????????
- 12,472
- 4,482
Same vote from me
- 239
- 107
- Thread starter
- #106
so is hope and arale managed to mess with kratos lol
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,448
- 15,068
Anyway, probably my argument got lost in the river of time (comments), but my argument is, while Zeus soul and that Fear Zeus can't be interacted due to being conceptual, the thing is Hearts erase Zeus across all points in time (work on Zamasu who is both Aca 1 and 4, but type 4 look useless these day so, actually it isn't useless in DB but well...), which in turn historically, causally erase Zeus. Fear Zeus isn't really exist since the begining of time, only starting to exist after Zeus is infected with Evil released from the Pandora's box cause....well....Kratos, so when Hearts erase Zeus, he also erase the events leading to the Zeus getting infected by Evil and the creation of Fear Zeus, thus Fear Zeus is no more. So Zeus' soul will probably still there due to being concept, but he can't do anything as a soul, and Hearts can't do anything to Zeus' soul, Hearts could probably erase the timeline leading to Zeus birth like what @Spicy78 said, but that kinda way later down the line. So eh......incon or not??
- 239
- 107
- Thread starter
- #109
the thing is, if hearts erases zeus from history, zeus himself would be automatically deleted, as he'll erase his whole past (which includes his birth), so zeus' soul wouldn't even be there. he'd just be gone
- 256
- 118
Also, Hearts has high godly negation, so if Zeus is successfully erased, he would be unable to regenerate.
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,448
- 15,068
uh oh................tbf, Zeus do not have HGR to begin with, so HGR neg is pointless, but i can understand what you mean
- 733
- 682
Hearts has quantum manipulation as a part of gravity manipulation he could squash the opposition into a zero dimensional point.
- 12,472
- 4,482
he can do that with Zeus' body........Fear will be completely unaffected by it however
- 239
- 107
- Thread starter
- #115
1. saying he could turn zeus into a 0D point is NLF. hearts doesn't have dimensional manipulation in his profile
2. if hearts squishes zeus, zeus just turns into the concept of fear itself and hearts is cooked
- 733
- 682
Ignoring the immense levels of headcanon to assume that his astral form isn’t bound by dimensionality even though it is. There’s nothing stopping him from squashing the planet or the environment they’re in thus Zeus
His avatar form also isn’t gonna save him from his history being deleted especially since hearts has passive gravity crush and paralysis inducement. Zeus’s best hope is a incon but he has no wincons literally.
Gravity Manipulation: Hearts' signature ability, called Supergravity, allows him to manipulate gravity and its direction,[14][11][15][12][13][16] such forcing his opponents to the ground, drag them to him and "move" them around, push them far away, etc...He can also creates Gravity Cage which is another extension of his gravity power, limited inside the boundary of the cage for other usages
- Matter Manipulation (Quantum): His gravity power can compress[17] everything, down to nothing.[14] He can also compress something down to the size he want
He won’t it’s like a form of super sealing he’d be gone forever. But let’s just assume he does, what’s Zeus gonna do look at Hearts very hard? His concept form doesn’t protect his history from getting erased as they’re completely different aspects Zeus literally has no wincon and his only Imcon is based off a NLF interpretation of his state of being.
- 12,472
- 4,482
his "astral" form
considering that hearts can't affect/erase type 1 concepts, his all of history EE is not gonna do much to Fear at all
so what you are saying is that his body is going to be immediately crushed, thus becoming a type 1 concept via Fear and making it so that Hearts just can't win via being completely unable to even hit him with anything at all?
cool and all.......still can't interact with the type 1 concept that is Fear and Zeus' soul, as said multiple times above, his body is really a non factor here
pretty sure being squashed like would kill him, regarldless, unless that has shown to be able to affects Conceptual type 1 AE, then this won't matter at all
or corrupt him, or take away all his powers, or just use Death manip on him, or conceptual manip him, etc
nah, it is just that Hearts literally can't erase concepts, therefore he can't erase Fear or Zeus' Soul
also the one not understanding the power of Fear is you, altering his body won't matter much for Fear itself, it is his soul
also if Hearts gravity is so strong......won't it just kill Zeus at the start?
- 239
- 107
- Thread starter
- #118
and? fear zeus can just emerge in space. hell, regular gods can survive in tbe vacuum of space, so the concept of feat itself would be juuust fine in there
the range is 2km. if hearts doesn't have passives of that range and he has to actually move to incap zeus, zeus can do the same and incon
bruh, he can destroy hearts' mind, soul and concept by just raising his hand, can powernull him with his lightning, he can attack him telepathically... wdym zeus has no wincons???
having a thing "be gone forever" and reduced into nothing" is just EE, not dimensional manip
look two replies above
idk about that tho. sure, hearts can EE the history of zeus in his base form (and thus he can erase the events that lead to the creation of fear zeus) but if zeus becomes the concept itself, that would mean that hearts must interact with a concept (something that he cannot do)
- 733
- 682
This is one of his starting moves when Zeus is physically present he can definitely be interacted with. Hearts can crush him in 0D and just win then it’s not a “attack” so Zeus isn’t gonna become a concept or whatever he’d be sealed.
What you seem to not understand is that these aspects aren’t interchangeable that’s the point. His AE protects from type 1 conceptual abilities and anything that doesn’t attack any fundamental aspects he doesn’t resist. This is like saying he can resist his plot getting nuked because he’s a concept it’s a NLF especially for a aspect that doesn’t even exist in verse.
His body isn’t taking damage I’ve said this before he’d be sealed GG fight over.
He starts with this dawg he’s never gonna become a concept.
No it wouldn’t he’s shown to be able to even reduce the size of things without damaging it worse comes to worse he paralyzed Zeus and calmly walks over and hits him with his history EE which he doesn’t resist
He’d be paralyzed before that happened plus he resist his CM is only really a factor if he’s in his AE 1 state the rest. And his death hax literature requires physical touch which is a non issue for his PASSIVE gravity manipulation
The point your ignoring is that his state of being won’t be a factor ignoring the fact that this is predicated on a very long string of unlikely events happening to allow Zeus to enter a state that will at best net him a incon. It’s the fact his history is still vulnerable that’s how the wiki standards work less we fall into the realm of nlf this exemplifies this point perfectly.
As stated here he only becomes fear upon his physical bodies death of course this isn’t gonna account for history EE or sealing so this isn’t a important point.
Nah we see he can reduce the size of things without damaging it.
- 733
- 682
I’ve address most the points up above but to recap one aspects aren’t interchangeable and Zeus AE does allow him to resist the proper aspect.
And ain’t no way GoW fans have resorted to making things up.
him “reducing” you to nothing is tied to his gravity manipulation not his EE.- Status