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This will be a simple revision
The omni king was stated by Grand Priest to foresaw the outcome of the tournament.
The omni king was stated by Grand Priest to foresaw the outcome of the tournament.
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Zeno can predict the future
- Thread starter OneRhasstyBoi
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- dragon ball grand priest zen'ō
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- #2
Bump
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The context clearly means Zen'oh just predicted what he think that will happen.
Daishinkan itself says that if a foresaw wish was made, Zen'oh would have erased everything, which immediatly invalidates the statement he saw the future that will happen without a doubt.
It's not precognition, just Zen'oh guessing something as I can guess the result of a football match, for example
Daishinkan itself says that if a foresaw wish was made, Zen'oh would have erased everything, which immediatly invalidates the statement he saw the future that will happen without a doubt.
It's not precognition, just Zen'oh guessing something as I can guess the result of a football match, for example
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- #4
Daishinkan never stated that Zeno thinks/guess/predict though. He clearly stated that Zeno foresaw the outcome, couldn’t be clearer than that. And that “if” was just a response to Beerus and it never happened. Zeno foresaw the outcome that the warrior winning the tournament will make a wish to revive all other universes and it’s entirely consistent with what we have seen.
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Zen'oh foresaw the outcome as any normal person can foresaw the outcome of any sport match. Just because the outcome was the same he predicted, it doesn't gran precognition, as well as no human has precognition by foreseeing the outcome of the ToP because it was kinda obvious U7 was gonna win.
And how is it consistent? There is literally no other feat to back it up, and the feat itself is vague.
And how is it consistent? There is literally no other feat to back it up, and the feat itself is vague.
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agreed with the normal person above me. Too vague .
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What are you talking about? Of course we knew U7 will win, that is the plot of the series, we are 3D viewers while Zeno is 2D compared to us. And what vagueness are there in the feat? Zeno’s foresaw outcome matched 100% with the event in the anime, and it is backed up by Daishinkan, which is literally words of god. Mind you, there are countless wishes that would have been made and Zeno predicted/foresaw the exact wish that will be made.
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It's just one example. Wanna one from the real world? Any person who wins horse races bets. They foresaw what would happen, does it mean they can see the future? No.
That literally anyone can foresaw the future and the future can match their prediction.
And? Anyone can foresee the outcome of any match and such outcome can match their prediction, yet not because of that they have prediction
Who literally said Zen'oh would have erased everything if a selfish wish was made. If the future was absolute, he wouldn't have even thought or said what could have happened if the outcome was different.
The feat itself is vague as hell, and you're trying to argue it's precognition just because a not well known God did it.
If I do a competition where many rich people participates and I foresee the one who wins will donate the money and the outcome of the competition is what I predicted, do I have precognition? No. Just a benevolent mind that thinks people'll be good enough to put the others, the correct, before my selfish wishes. Same happens to Zen'oh here
Vietthai96
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Disagree, this is sematic arguing, no solid evidences, people predict and guess all the time
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I knew that “foresaw” could mean many things. But again, precognition uses also varies. Straight from the page: Precognition may be based on any number of factors; it may be based on reading the minute body movements of an opponent, predicting their actions through observation, mathematical predictions, or through some unspecified magical or astronomical means, among any other number of abilities. Given this wide variety of methods, any given user's form of Precognition and its limitations should be described on their page. Zeno not only predicted exactly who will win, but the wish that will be made, despite the fact A17 was massively weaker than not just LB Jiren and UI Goku, but also SSBE Vegeta and GoD Toppo as well, and if’s not seeing the future, it would be some type of prediction.
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Again: unless you think every human has precognition for guessing, no, that's not precognition for Zen'oh.
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This is not precognition
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If precognition is too much, how about analytical prediction or just “can predict the future”?
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No. Not enough evidence
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I agree with JustANormalPerson and the others
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But we have enough evidence though. Daishinkan’s statement and Zeno’s feat himself. I mean, Goku literally have analytical prediction for predicting 0.1s of the future. I don’t see why Zeno can’t have that?
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Several people already told you guessing something is not precognition. Even a human child can do so without analytical prediction
Are you really comparing Goku's feat with Zen'oh? Anyway, just because one character of the verse has that, it doesn't mean Zen'oh also has it, and Zen'oh was stated not to be a skilled fighter
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Never said if a character in a verse have an ability, then Zeno will have it. I was saying that their feat are the same, both predicted the future and both feats are supported by statements, I would even argue that Zeno’s feat are better because he predicted literally the whole tournament, not only who will win but also what wish will be made. Yes we can predict things, but most of them are based on observation, we predict a football match usually by how strong they are, their current forms,… Here A17 was massively weaker than Jiren, Goku, Vegeta and Toppo and even then, A17 literally stated that he would wish for a boat or something earlier, but in the end, he still wish to revive the universes.
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No, they aren't. Zen'oh just guessed what could've happened as any human can do, Goku, meanwhile, guessed what Hit would do and where would he be.
Only in your headcanon. Goku's feat is a true precognition feat.
Zen'oh's, meanwhile, as everyone here told you, is just guessing something
Headcanon, Daishinkan only said Zen'oh knew the winner would restore the universe, not that Zen'oh knew what would happen in the entire tournament of power, or that A17 was the winner. If he really knew it, he won't try to pull the button to eliminate Goku the first time he used Ultra Instinct, for example
...and we can predict things based on our opinion, ideals, hope, etc. Zen'oh just hoped the winner will do something heroic like any child-like person (which he is) will do
And?
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This is not precognition. It’s just a prediction.
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Here my main arguments why Zeno can predict the future:
1) Daishinkan stated that “ Zeno-Sama foresaw the outcome”, foresaw could mean many things, but in this context, I will use predict.
2) Zeno’s prediction matched what happened in the anime.
Some counter arguments could be it is a lucky guess work or he just hopes.
First of all, Daishinkan never stated that Zeno hopes, he only stated that Zeno “foresaw”.
Secondly, Zeno predicted who will win and what wish will be made. It could be a lucky guess work, however, A17 in the tournament was massively weaker than Goku,Jiren, Vegeta and Toppo, which would hurt his chance of winning. In earlier episode, A17 also stated that if he won the tournament, he would wish for a boat but in the end, he still wish to revive other universes, which further supports Zeno’s prediction is not a lucky guess work.
1) Daishinkan stated that “ Zeno-Sama foresaw the outcome”, foresaw could mean many things, but in this context, I will use predict.
2) Zeno’s prediction matched what happened in the anime.
Some counter arguments could be it is a lucky guess work or he just hopes.
First of all, Daishinkan never stated that Zeno hopes, he only stated that Zeno “foresaw”.
Secondly, Zeno predicted who will win and what wish will be made. It could be a lucky guess work, however, A17 in the tournament was massively weaker than Goku,Jiren, Vegeta and Toppo, which would hurt his chance of winning. In earlier episode, A17 also stated that if he won the tournament, he would wish for a boat but in the end, he still wish to revive other universes, which further supports Zeno’s prediction is not a lucky guess work.
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- #25
Btw I have fixed the thread title.
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Already debunked
This is not an argument, though
How does this support Zen'oh's precognition? Zen'Oh never said A17 would win, he just said the winner would take the universes back. It May be A17, or any other character who regretted his selfish wish and thought taking the universes back is a better wish as A17 said
How does it proof that?
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- #27
Because there is a possibility that A17 will make a selfish wish? But he didn’t, which prove that Zeno’s prediction stay true.
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Bro, it doesn't support nothing. It just means A17 changed his mind at the last moment.
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The fact that he changed his mind supports Zeno’s prediction.
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Btw , I’m not arguing for precognition anymore, just future prediction.
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Why does it? You don't have evidence, just headcanon.
Vietthai96
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1. This is sematic arguing
2. You take Grand Priest's statement too serious and out of context
3. No actual support evidences aside from personal intepretation of the contexts
2. You take Grand Priest's statement too serious and out of context
3. No actual support evidences aside from personal intepretation of the contexts
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...which is the same
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Why would I not take Daishinkan’s statement serious. His word holds more value than even Whis, whose statements we take as facts. And out of context? Daishinkan stated that Zeno foresaw the outcome, which essentially means predict the outcome, which is literally what I’m arguing for.
Vietthai96
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it doesn't matter here, he said Zeno foresaw the result, nothing more. The statement is too vague, leave too much room for intepretation, no solid back-up. We can all agree if he downright say, Zeno can see the future but no.................
While we do give people analytical prediction, a type of psuedo-precognition, Zeno is not even qualify because he predict one or two results
PrinceofPein
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There is no simple revision my friend
evil laugh
Vietthai96
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You know what, just forget about this thread. I’m done arguing at this point. I made another thread about Gogeta: https://vsbattles.com/threads/gogeta-dbs-is-missing-some-abilities.138717/#post-4882009
Come check it out.
Come check it out.
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