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Zelda should be Low 2-C: Into the Zeldaverse

Do we need a restart thread with a summary in the beginning to get something done here?
 
If we do, someone else needs to make it. I pinched my damn nerve last night and I've been awake for the past 21 hours, the last six of which have been constant pain and the inability to turn or even tilt my head to the side.
 
@Julian

Are you willing to write a summary for a new thread and then ask knowledgeable members, including staff, to give input there?
 
I believe it is best if someone more knowledgeable on the verse is up for that task @Antvasima.

If someone else does that, I can go ask the rest of the staff to give their input then.
 
Yes. It should be linked here. Thanks for helping out.
 
I actually found something new about the scaling that can possibly upgrade every character. I will start with the fact that the Triforce has the power of the Golden Goddesses and not just a small portion of It. Here the right translation: http://www.zeldalegends.net/view/text/z3translation/z3_manual_story.html


Also, It is confirmed that Ganondorf became a Demon King to obtain absolute power that would surpass even the goddesses, and he's not the only one with such objective. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-leC-OIUV...2NJsnpR-JCY687paCbKQCHMYCw/s1600/RCO002_w.jpg

Here It is also suggested that Demise is the counterpart of the Golden Goddesses.

"For all the good created by the goddesses, there also exists a great darkness" And who created that great darkness? Demise.

As said before, Ganondorf was not the only one seeking for a power that would surpass the goddesses, in zelda encyclopedia it is said that Byrne was seeking power capable of surpassing golden goddesses so that's why was seeking to revive Malladus by stealing princess as Hylia's heir to use her as vessel.

Zelda has the Light Force in her, a source of infinite power and unlimeted magic, the Light Force It is also contained in the True Master Sword. https://pm1.narvii.com/7146/7fa7057aef07f438c0bcf9806d0a60562c0f61d0r1-408-748v2_hq.jpg https://pm1.narvii.com/7146/ad76962f4b4ae28fc713d247d8e81bc49ba3e77dr1-456-463v2_uhq.jpg

Obviously the Goddesses Hylia was weaker than the goddesses individually, but also weaker than Demise. https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon...066796fedbd01b325c50543._SX1600_QL80_TTD_.jpg

"Hylia knew that her power alone was not enough to stop Demise". So Demise can be comparable to the Goddesses individually without any problem.

Not enough? There is another proof, It is said that in the Spirit of the Hero dwells the power of the goddess. https://66.media.tumblr.com/f859fc0c2a094fd23e0094fa6ec19eb7/tumblr_pmj4x9Q7Np1rygeui_1280.jpg I think it's pretty obvious that the encyclopedia was talking about Farore and about the Triforce of Courage.
 
There do not seems to be concrete direct comparisons between Demise and the 3 Golden Goddesses in what you mentioned. Just because somebody wanted to surpass them it does not mean that they did.
 
Antvasima said:
There do not seems to be concrete direct comparisons between Demise and the 3 Golden Goddesses in what you mentioned. Just because somebody wanted to surpass them it does not mean that they did.
Click to expand...
What about the fact that the 3 Golden Goddessess could only seal Ganondorf and wait for the born of a new Link? Obviously Ganondorf is weaker than the Goddesses, but the fact that even them cannot just make him disappear in the nothing means that Demise curse is that powerful that even the Goddesses cannot break it. And there are also the proofs above about the complete Triforce being equal to the Golden Goddessess and the pieces being equal to them individually.
 
I'm willing to put Demise at 4-A max since he basically soloed Loz pantheon in the first great war and bodied Hylia.

The only reason he might have been a potential threat was because he was aiming to get the full triforce.

But characters like full TF Link, Ganondorf, Cia etc should definitely get an upgrade to low 2-C with out a doubt especially since alot of the parallel worlds in the Zelda verse are straight up to be universes.

a we know that the light world is actually universal size since hyrule reside in the Milky-way and they are also aware of other universes and clearly know about the concepts of alternate/parallel/ dimensions.

Hilda did say that her Dimension(universe) is pretty far from Links universe.

Also the GG's exist in the heavens, a plane that is beyond the concepts of the main multiverse, even existing before the concepts were created (it predates primordial chaos).

Including such concepts as the concept of dimensions (they were the ones that brought concepts and laws after entering the Primordial chaos). The Heavens also exist beyond ayin. Even when the timeline split happened no effect happened in the heavens.
 
Were the goddesses truly stated to be unable to destroy Ganon at some point, or did they simply seal him due to being deities with mysterious motivations, or to maintain the plot, whichever you prefer.
 
I don't think it was ever stated they were unable to destroy Ganon, all I recall is it being said that the people prayed for the Goddesses to save them after Ganon broke out of his seal and the 3 of them flooded the world and sealed him away in response.
 
Okay. Thanks. That is not any proof. We should preferably stop that discussion then.

Let's return to the topic of a restart thread.
 
Antvasima said:
Were the goddesses truly stated to be unable to destroy Ganon at some point, or did they simply seal him due to being deities with mysterious motivations, or to maintain the plot, whichever you prefer.
Click to expand...
It was never stated that they're unable to destroy Ganon, but they had to seal him, probably for the reasons you said, but there is another thing, Ganondorf broke free from that seal.

"Link... I have been watching you since you went to the Forsaken Fortress to rescue your sister. I understand how your desire to protect your sister could give you the courage to fearlessly stand up to anything... But such a bold attempt was foolhardy! I suppose you saw him... The shadow that commands that monstrous bird... His name is... Ganon... He who obtained the power of the gods, attempted to cover the land in darkness, and was ultimately sealed away by the very power he hoped to command. He is the very same Ganon... The emperor of the dark realm the ancient legends speak of... I do not know why the seal of the gods has failed, but now that Ganon has returned, the world is once again being threatened by his evil magic."
 
ZephyrosOmega said:
I am very against scaling anyone to the full triforce that isn't the golden master sword.
Click to expand...
Link was made to be a host of of the Full triforce stated by Hylia when she said she personally made Link's soul to always be a compatible vessel to the Master Sword hence the reason why in SS he was able to have the full TF.

Only Ganondorf/Demise and Girahim true sword form would scale to it since the True master sword is basically the original Golden MS when it was at his peak and fresh out of the oven.

plus True MS and Golden MS are considered to be on the same level of power since both of them were created to be a hard counter to the TF and/or made to house the Full power of the TF.

Heck it was the only way for Link to actually go up against Demise.

Link vs Demise is basically the same situation with golden Ms link vs Ganon.

But yeah everyone else shouldn't scale to them (aside From Cia who weilded the full TF)
 
But individual peices of Triforce are obviously high 4-C to 4-A (again one piece can make you match Loz gods and they all have 4-C to 4-A feats) Same thing for light force and life force (that are literally considered to be divine powers from gods and Zelda's Lght/life force at full potential made Vaati 4-A)
 
You should ask other staff members listed in The Legend of Zelda verse page to comment here.

Anyway, I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion.
 
First of all, there was another thread contesting Majora's tier; while it is stated that he corrupts time, space, and the heavens. And it's also stated that Termina is indeed a parallel universe as shown in the OP. Corrupting the Universe is simply range and hax, it's not Attack Potency. If there was a scan that says he created Termina, than the Tier is fine and in fact. It would sound Low 2-C rather than 3-A as the term "Parallel Universe" or "Alternate Reality" typically refers alternate timelines indeed. But that should get a scan if retrievable.

Regarding the complete Triforce, there are multiple translations aside. And yes, a "Symbol of their power" does more so imply a fraction of the Goddesses power rather than all of it. Same with "Forged from their power". Simply saying it holds their power doesn't mean it holds all their power. Which means the Complete Triforce < True Power of the Golden Goddesses.

Anyway, Demise nor Ganondorf did not surpass the golden goddesses, it simply says he wants to surpass them. Which is contradicted by this statement stating that he cannot control the goddesses even if he did access the complete Triforce. That's why in the Downfall timeline, Ganon doesn't just become invincible nor did he drive away the Golden Goddesses. The 7 Wise Men were able to seal him away, proving that even with the complete Triforce, he's still not the strongest thing in the verse. If the goddesses are able to find or use those capable for sealing Ganon's power, then that also shows they still have far greater power than he does.

Regarding the "Evil counterpart", that's more so referring to their creation and not the goddesses themselves. Devils are equal to angels, they're not equal to the Holy Trinity. So at best, Demise could be seen as a counterpart to Hylia, which I'll explain the details later.

Anyway, Hylia and Demise based on the scan are evenly matched. Yes, it is true that Demise does hold the advantage in raw power, but she was still able to best him and seal him away. And while the seal she placed on him was only temporary, she needed to weaken herself as a mortal to use the Triforce, which in turn wished Demise away. So Demise nor Hylia are anywhere near the power of the complete Triforce either.

The Infinite power statement is kind of a throwaway hyperbole. And we already know from scaling chain that Golden Goddesses > Complete Triforce > Demise/Hylia > Light Force. Light Force is merely a fraction of Hylia's power in the same vein Triforce is a fraction of the Golden Goddesses power. That being said, the Master Sword is a true essence of Hylia meant to give her power to the Spirit of the Hero in which she created. So the True Master Sword is indeed part of the scaling chain, but still outside of the Golden Sword form, it's not Complete Triforce tier.

That being said, there are other things I was planning to revise based on several things brought up. I do understand the cosmology of the multiverse is deeper than we thought. And there are also good points about our standards on assuming Hyrule, Lorule, ect are all simply Tier 4 sized pocket realities that are parallel to each other as opposed to universes given that both Termina and Subrosia has "Parallel Universe" statements. In fact, Hyrule/Light World does have starry skies and constellations to assume it loosely takes place in the Milky Way Galaxy. But should be saved for another thread.

Anyway, I'm at the very least thinking we should upgrade Hylia and everyone comparable to her as 4-A via being superior to the Wind Fish. Other details suggest that Light World, Dark World, Lorule's dimension, and the Sacred Realm are all literally alternate dimensions. Meaning each of them clearly have their own bodies of space. And if they're parallel to each other, they should be the same size. Sacred Realm is at least Earth to Sun distance, aka at least High 4-C. Hyrule consistently has starry skies and numerous constellations; thousands of stars = At least 4-A. I'm unsure about Vaati's feat, but may comment about that later.
 
Oh yeah, that was the theoretical 2-B scan I've been hearing about. Though, reading the context, those other millions of alternate realities appears to be something the Golden Goddesses didn't participate in. They created them by accident due to the existence of time and space travel and causality loop shenanigans. It appears they intended to create one, but ended up creating others as a chain reaction. And they created Majora who created Termina could be another way to interpret that.
 
I don't think 2-B is applicable to anyone, no.

@Medeus @Elizhaa so "At least 3-A, pssibly Low 2-C" is fine, then?
 
And that would be fine to scale to the full triforce, yes? I know composite link is getting deleted, but I kept the old file around for the sake of making matches.
 
Alright. Skimming back through the thread, it looks like most people, excepting ant, seem to agree with the upgrade. Is it fine to apply or should we wait for more staff input?
 
Ant's probably busy, and better off if other staff members are contacted. But I think we have enough general staff approval.
 
Cal posted here a long time ago, but never came back. But a reminder is always good.
 
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