Zelda: Adding Abilities

[AshenCrow777]

And I agree with fate manip plus the triforce granting some sort of cosmic awareness makes sense.

 

[Konaguna]

Fate Manip was supposedly debunked, though I don't think Warren has made a good point about it, however I look at fate manip as a consequence of the Wish. I'll explain.

Warren has said that King's wish was merely for the the children to be saved from the past burdens, and something about the hero overcoming the great evil, but hear me out as I thoroughly explain.

The King made a wish for Ganon to drown along with hyrule, for children to have a future, and to wash away hyrule.

So why exactly is this fate manip? Ganon was meant to drown on the bottom of Hyrule, what more symbolic way than turning into stone could you hope for? And no, the Master sword doesn't have petrification, it's pretty well established in many games what the master sword can do, and Petrification does not fall under something the master sword can do, especially since Ganon was meant to be washed away with Hyrule.

Why was the battle staged then?

Well that's quite simply really, because Link was fodder. He had the ToC and full Master sword, yet he still got stomped by Ganon in less than 10 seconds. Link had absolutely no way of winning, he was way to weak, that's why King of Hyrule gave him a future, because otherwise he would have died. Zelda also literally came back from her slumber moments after the wish took effect, think that's coincidence? don't think so.

The Wish was altering fate so that Ganon would die by Link's hand, Hyrule would be washed away along with Ganon while Link and Zelda live and find a new Hyrule. Warren mentioned that if it was fate manip then why hadn't ganon dropped dead right after the wish?

Lets not forget that Link wished for Demise's destruction and what happened to him? a stone fell upon him, that's also rather odd for a wish like that. But the wish still got carried out, it does not matter how the wish is done, only that it is.

 

[AshenCrow777]

Snip

I would like to hear it actually never made sense for also what about concept manip what happened to that Hylia did say it had conceptual manip cuz it could alter the essence of all things?.

 

[Zogriel]

That's not what I am saying at all, the beams are made of dark magic, not infused by it.
Literally 90% of population there has turned evil. You should be giving me a reason why the magic they use is just ordinary magic an not evil, since they fall under a world where everything becomes evil.

I don't know what else to tell you, I already gave you a lot of examples.

Not everything in Zelda is clasified as good or evil; otherwise we wouldn't have six different types of sages (including a sage of shadow), and not everything in the Light World is good (there're still monsters in the light world) and not everything in the Dark World is evil (there're still great fairies in the dark world).

According to Hyrule Historia (page 112), Link from Majora's Mask use the Fierce Deity Mask to defeat Majora. The description of the mask says it uses Dark powers. In this case, Link is not using holy magic every time he shoots a sword beam, but a vastly stronger evil power that can overthrow those of Majora's despite being call a Deity.

Does this make Link more evil than Majora? Of course not, he is using Fierce Deity's evil powers for a good cause, to save the people of Termina. Now, returning to Wizzrobe's description, Why to specify that Wizzrobes use magical beams of energy when they could simply put that Wizzrobes attack with evil magic just like they did with Ganon and the Fierce Deity mask? Why to specify its magic is base on energy and not in evil magic?

The Hero of Time, has proven to have a pure heart as shown when withdrawing the Master Sword in Ocarina of Time, but several years later, we see him turn into a Stalfos in Twilight Princess (page 118). Does that means he became evil? No, we can see he takes the form of a white wolf which happens to be the same form it takes the Hero of Twilight. A Stalfos with a pure heart, How bizarre is that?

Link from A link to the past, can also transmutate some monsters into a less dangerous monsters. Does that means those monsters became good because were transmutated by Link and not Ganon or the Dark World? Of course not, they will still attack Link if given the opportunity.

My point is: Wizzrobes are evil monsters by nature, I'm not denying it, and they also attack Link with the evil intentions of killing him, but with evil magic, that's clear. Otherwise, Why to specify that Wizzrobes use magical beams of energy in the first place?

 

[Dust_Collector]

@Ashen Conceptual Manipulation was removed as "alter the essence of all things" doesn't indicate that ability.

 

[Konaguna]

I updated my comment and brought back Fate Manip.

 

[AshenCrow777]

OK thanks you 2


Also I think Dark and evil are two different things entirely batman is Dark and edgy at times but not evil(Canon batman of course) so yeah HD mask might be Dark but I don't think it has anything to do with evil.


But that just me.

 

[Konaguna]

@Zogriel

You forget that that which gives them power is the wish of literal evil incarnate, and they are in his world, playing by his rules. I don't see how Greedy, Power Hungry individuals who transform couldn't use anything but Unholy powers. The Ring was supposed to negate evil powers, yet it doesn't negate any attacks from any enemy in the DW.


Ganon still uses dark arts to fight against link and his powers aren't getting negated. Ganon for sure uses evil magic, I mean... that's obvious af.

Also the arguments you are trying to make work both ways actually. The effects triforce imposes on dark world aren't really evil, because triforce can't distinguish between them. So that again is literally resistance to madness manip, transmutation and power negation.

 

[AshenCrow777]

@Dust I saw the profile of Ganondorf and I was wandering will link have all the powers that Ganondorf desplayed with the TP since the invulnerability and Low Godly comes from the TP?

 

[Dust_Collector]

Invulnerability yes, Low-Godly no since the site counts the regen as something Ganon always had before he even had ToP (Which I personally don't agree with but eh).

 

[AshenCrow777]

That's weird (Feel like we should do a CRT about it) cause on the TF page it says that it grants Low godly and in TP it was clearly shown That Ganondorf was only able to survive thank to the ToP there's a whole dialog about when it happen....


And for the invulnerability how good it is I know that Ganondorf limits where holy/light attacks and EE to some extent but what about Link

 

[AshenCrow777]

Bump?

 

[TriforcePower1]

Oh yeah, this existed. I'll just add what was accepted and ask Cal to close this. I honestly don't feel like continuing the Moon Pearl argument.

 

[Antvasima]

So you have reached a consensus then? It is probably best to summarise the conclusions and ask a few staff members to confirm though.

 

[TriforcePower1]

I've already added what got accepted by staff members. The only missing one is changing the justification of Link's resistance to EE, which I cannot do because the page is locked.

 

[AshenCrow777]

Also one more thing guardians lasers are actually lasers if you talk to one of the dude on the bridge after getting of the plateau (he's the dude watching the broken guardian) he tells you clearly that the guardians are mechanical creatures that shoots lasers beams of light at you.


Still don't see why people don't accept that when the game clearly states it

 

[Antvasima]

Is it the Link (Composite) page that you need unlocked?

 

[TriforcePower1]

Yes. It's the only one I haven't edited yet.

@Ashen There's a ton of stuff contradicting light speed guardians beams, from the fact that they explode, or that it's immensely slower that the red beam of actual light they use to aim.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Tell me here when you are done.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Done

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Should we close this thread?

 

[TriforcePower1]

That's okay for me

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.