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ZeedMillenniummon vs. Nanashi (Shin Megami Tensei)
- Thread starter Burning_Full_Fingers
- Start date
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I am not voting (please do not skip this part), but i should point out that you don't have to equalize speed given that both are Immeasurable in speed. It's not necessary at all to do that for here on the both of them.
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stomp thread.
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It isn't he's using the "Endgame" key in which is 2-A. Confusing I know.MagiSinbad said:
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ah Sorry, i just notice that
Hmm...i dont know... i affraid this gonna turn out like the last Krishna vs Zeed thread
Hmm...i dont know... i affraid this gonna turn out like the last Krishna vs Zeed thread
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meh I'm sure this'll go well. Anyway I'll wait before I vote. Most likely Reppu and Matt will be here soon. They know more about these guys then I do. Although I like Nanashi to much for him to lose. And I'm too much of a Digimon fan to see Zeed die.....I'm so broken... ;(
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I don't think this is going to end well.
Regardless, I'm still confused about Nanashi's Tiering, as from what Tivanenk and Matt told me, Observation is meant to lower the Gods to a point where they are weakened can subsequently be killed, but YHVH's demonic form is stronger than his previous form. As a result, I'm still pretty befuddled when it comes to arguing around it in a debate.
Otherwise, neither has anything the other doesn't have, so I'm not really sure to be honest.
Regardless, I'm still confused about Nanashi's Tiering, as from what Tivanenk and Matt told me, Observation is meant to lower the Gods to a point where they are weakened can subsequently be killed, but YHVH's demonic form is stronger than his previous form. As a result, I'm still pretty befuddled when it comes to arguing around it in a debate.
Otherwise, neither has anything the other doesn't have, so I'm not really sure to be honest.
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Yhwach? You mean Nanashi?
Also I believe Matt said it is a verse only thing. Especially since Zeed is not a god created by the Axiom.
Also I believe Matt said it is a verse only thing. Especially since Zeed is not a god created by the Axiom.
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@Dragonmaster
I was using YHVH as an example, since no one has really made the Observation hax (or so I'm told its called) clear and it isn't even listed on his character page.
Zeed does have a significant edge in Acausality, but I'd like to hear other opinions first.
Edit: And thank you for correcting my mistake.
I was using YHVH as an example, since no one has really made the Observation hax (or so I'm told its called) clear and it isn't even listed on his character page.
Zeed does have a significant edge in Acausality, but I'd like to hear other opinions first.
Edit: And thank you for correcting my mistake.
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Well this is what Matt said when I asked him to add Anti-Regen to his file due to Observation
"They really don't. It's just that in-verse the only thing that can permanently kill a deity is a human through Observation and being a Godslayer."
"They really don't. It's just that in-verse the only thing that can permanently kill a deity is a human through Observation and being a Godslayer."
The Observation stuff is meant as a metaphysical thing, as in stripping YHVH of his "holiness" which puts him on the level of the other gods, allowing him to be destroyed. It doesn't weaken them per se, just removes their immortality so they can be permanently killed forever. I'm not sure it has any applicable use against anything that isn't considered a "traditional" god (Odin, Zeus, YHVH etc), such as a super-powerful digital being like ZMM.
I guess it could depend on whether or not ZMM is treated as a god in the Digimon universe? If so, then maybe we can apply Observation since godhood under SMT rules is bestowed based on how many worship you, and believe you exist (this was hinted at with Aradia in SMT3). Yeah, humans made the gods real, big surprise! Though the Great Will is always present as an unconscious supercreator or something.
I guess it could depend on whether or not ZMM is treated as a god in the Digimon universe? If so, then maybe we can apply Observation since godhood under SMT rules is bestowed based on how many worship you, and believe you exist (this was hinted at with Aradia in SMT3). Yeah, humans made the gods real, big surprise! Though the Great Will is always present as an unconscious supercreator or something.
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Not quiet right. Observation isnt a anti-divine/demonic ability.
Simple explaination : it's a power that allow you bans the nature and power of your opponent and and give form to concepts through your belief. Only Nanashi team were able to mastered this power
Complex explaination : *take a deep breath*
It's the power that bestowed to the humanity by the Axiom. Through Observation, the human can shape the reality through their belief. Yup ! that's right, The Observation is a kind of reality warping. Once human see a natural phenomena and they come to a conclusion "that must be a work of gods", then the concept that govern the said natural phenomena will take form of a god/demon, a conceptual being that made by the energies that exist beyond the physic. This is how the god/demons were created. Due to this, the god/demons will never dies as they are the immortal embodiments of the concepts that govern the world.
However, the human are still able to kill demom and gods permantly. How ? Of course through Observation ! If it's the power that can shape the concepts and nature of the world then it's also have the power the defies them. Yup, The Observation can be uses as the weapon to deny the nature of gods and demons, making them from abstract to non-abstract. The best example of this is YHVH, he fought again Apocalypse crew (Nanashi and his friends) and get his nature as "the immortal embodiment of SMT (mainline) verse" banned, he is reduced to something that can be killed, therefore, he got killed. This doesnt need the entities to be created through the observation, YHVH created humanity, yet, he feared this power of them (It's the power of The Axiom anyway)
there arent many human that aware this power, but Nanashi crew has mastered it to the point that they can defies the God. Hell, it can be used to give form or banned the other ability, i remember Nanashi used it to fix The Hero's cycle of Reincanation and give him a body to lives.
Simple explaination : it's a power that allow you bans the nature and power of your opponent and and give form to concepts through your belief. Only Nanashi team were able to mastered this power
Complex explaination : *take a deep breath*
It's the power that bestowed to the humanity by the Axiom. Through Observation, the human can shape the reality through their belief. Yup ! that's right, The Observation is a kind of reality warping. Once human see a natural phenomena and they come to a conclusion "that must be a work of gods", then the concept that govern the said natural phenomena will take form of a god/demon, a conceptual being that made by the energies that exist beyond the physic. This is how the god/demons were created. Due to this, the god/demons will never dies as they are the immortal embodiments of the concepts that govern the world.
However, the human are still able to kill demom and gods permantly. How ? Of course through Observation ! If it's the power that can shape the concepts and nature of the world then it's also have the power the defies them. Yup, The Observation can be uses as the weapon to deny the nature of gods and demons, making them from abstract to non-abstract. The best example of this is YHVH, he fought again Apocalypse crew (Nanashi and his friends) and get his nature as "the immortal embodiment of SMT (mainline) verse" banned, he is reduced to something that can be killed, therefore, he got killed. This doesnt need the entities to be created through the observation, YHVH created humanity, yet, he feared this power of them (It's the power of The Axiom anyway)
there arent many human that aware this power, but Nanashi crew has mastered it to the point that they can defies the God. Hell, it can be used to give form or banned the other ability, i remember Nanashi used it to fix The Hero's cycle of Reincanation and give him a body to lives.
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I guess it could depend on whether or not ZMM is treated as a god in the Digimon universe? If so, then maybe we can apply Observation since godhood under SMT rules is bestowed based on how many worship you, and believe you exist (this was hinted at with Aradia in SMT3).
Nein, your opponent dont need to be a God or demon to be affected by the Observation. Kazuya (Yes, i still call him Kazuya, that name is cool :3 ) is just a human but Nanashi still can use his Observation to give him a form and repair his cycle of reincanatio
Nein, your opponent dont need to be a God or demon to be affected by the Observation. Kazuya (Yes, i still call him Kazuya, that name is cool :3 ) is just a human but Nanashi still can use his Observation to give him a form and repair his cycle of reincanatio
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- Thread starter
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Okay. I'll unequalize it.CrossverseCrisis said:
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if you take EoS Nanashi, is a Stomp, even if you use the Nanashi when he and his party fight Satan, before that is more debatable who wins/lost or bucle
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This is 2-A Nanashi.
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bump
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- Thread starter
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Bump.
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B-b-bump (not a vote, but I'm leaning toward Nanashi)
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- Thread starter
- #20
Okay, but you need to provide reasons.
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To be honest, it's all up to whether the power the Axiom gives humans will work on Zeed. If it doesn't, then Zeed could just will Nanashi out of existence or something. It makes sense that Nanashi could box with Yaweh (I'm a savage, I'll use his real name), in terms of raw power because of him fighting with Demon Yaweh and him being "stronger" than his base. It's also not impossible for someone to beat God in terms of raw power-- hi SMT 2 protag. Sorry about your hell... I guess the Axiom gave him the ability to resist Yaweh's hax, and nullify his immortality...? So, like, unless the Axiom doesn't work on Zeed, Nanashi takes an L.
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