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You knew it would happen: Abysswalker vs Lilith Grimoire

I mean, this is meant for only the High 6-A forms, but if we go to Low 2-C Abysswalker's AP with Soul Ignition stomps Low 2-Cs all day long and he absorbs her completely negating her Regenerationn as she becomes fuel for his Armor that devours souls and abstract creatures on a conceptual level.

But yes, Stone of Vale is restricted and so is Soul Ignition.
 
i was hesitant to do this myself, but now I don't need to.

Alright, so with the Stone restricted, Lilith doesn't have a lot of options to bypass Type 8. At the same time, Abysswalker doesn't seem to have a lot of options to bypass Lilith's Type 3 and 6. Both of them resist most of the other's stuff because both of them have the advantage of saving throw GG.

Mostly, at least.

There's no way that Lilith is pulling off the seduce/drain combo, and saving throw probably resists crystallization, but the void manip of her ethereal blades doesn't get resisted. That said, type 8 stops that from being a viable kill. NPI and Abstract Absorption can hit Lilith's true form after destroying her avatar, but abysswalker doesn't resist possession, so...

Unless I think of something else, this is Incon, either Walker succs or Lilith possesses.
 
There are canon creatures like ghosts that possess people and do have saving throws, so Possession is resisted and with Protection from a Solar (4-D abilities and protections) that's not gonna happen.
 
>all of his abilities are 4D

how is this not a stomp, lilith without the stone isn't all that special in terms of the wiki's strongest
 
No, not all his abilities are 4-D, the Solar's abilities are 4-D meaning the blessing (hence his resistance) is above a 4-D scale.
 
ZephyrosOmega said:
>all of his abilities are 4D
how is this not a stomp, lilith without the stone isn't all that special in terms of the wiki's strongest
Click to expand...
Even with the stone The Abysswalker stomps all the Archdevils that are each increasingly higher levels of Low 2-C and is on the verge of fighting Asmodeus and doing meaningful damage to Demogorgon: the former being around baseline 2-C and the latter stomping any other 2-C around...

Soul Ignition Abyss vs Lilith with The Stone would likely be a big stomp
 
ok, that's still a stomp... so?

Besides, back on this battle, The Abysswalker has 4-D resistances and not 4-D hax unless he uses Soul Ignition which is restricted.
 
you're not wrong.

Anyway, Not seeing how Lilith can bypass type 8 AND 4D resistances. if it was just one of those she could do it, but the stuff that gets past one gets countered by the other.
 
Komodo25M said:
This would be more evenly matched if they have their 2-C Hax. Just saying.
Click to expand...
No it wouldn't because Zephyors just said she leads with 2-A hax with the stone which stomps The Abysswalker.
 
ZephyrosOmega said:
you're not wrong.
Anyway, Not seeing how Lilith can bypass type 8 AND 4D resistances. if it was just one of those she could do it, but the stuff that gets past one gets countered by the other.
Click to expand...
So my question is do you see this as a stomp? How good is her acting? and does she have a way to change her form or seal someone?
 
Lilith can change her shape into basically anything. She doesn't have any sealing options-


I just remembered that her scythe negates type 8

Okay so this is suddenly way more of a debate
 
Alright so, Curse element in The Deus Ex Cycle is basically the Necrotic element in Dungeons & Dragons, so i don't see any of that working on Lilith. Her scythe's powers are 2-A 4D, so she can win with a killing hit (decapitation, maiming, basically anything that would kill a normal dude. I know abysswalker can't be beheaded but Solar's blessing doesn't say anything about other types of dismemberment). She's got a good few centuries over The Abysswalker as she was an experienced warrior and general even in the days of the Great War and even a nick from the scythe will make the abysswalker's senses get screwed over, but idk how that affects his rage.

You asked about her acting and shapeshifting earlier. Demons can basically shapeshift into anything they want, animate or inanimate, and Lilith is no exception. She's also a good enough actor/sweet-talker/manipulator/diplomat that she was able to get into a high-ranking general job at a time when succubi were considered the lowest of the low in demon society.

So I think Lilith probably wins. Even if her magic can't bypass it, it can still help her get in that killing shot as she likes to protect herself with an ethereal blade barrier. High-Mid might be hard to get past, as well.
 
I mean, Abysswalker usually leads with Baator's Bane, GTH, or The Crucible.

If she even gets close the GTH or gets hit by Baator's Bane she gets burned on a conceptual level (enough to harm anything basically, including 2-A gods) that's just the nature of hellfire and soul plasma but it won't insta-kill it just harms anything it comes into contact with (This includes: Gods that rely on concepts, things that don't even exist on any kind of material plane, and is capable of killing gods outright which in lore no god truly "dies" thanks to low-godly but that won't help here), The Crucible can hurt but it's not killing her.

And by burning on coneptual level I mean that wound ain't healing anytime soon.

Skill is pretty good, but he's outclassed high class demons including Pit Fiends which live for thousands of years. He is also compareable in skill to Zariel (Fallen Angel) who is known and seen as the most battle competent and skilled Archdevil in the nine hells other than Asmodeus himself.

I asked for the manipulation part, but then I realized he does technically resist social influencing so... that's not gonna help her.
 
Baator's bane won't really be a problem since ark properties make Lil's scythe ultimately superior, and she can probably just destroy it with a spell.

I see them being pretty even in skill then. Zariel is cool and such, but then you have Lilith who battled gods during the great war including the Goddess of combat herself and overthrew literal Satan by killing him. AKA first Angel and subsequent first Demon after Vale got to him, who's basically been around since Graham himself has... which is a long time?

GTH is definitely an issue but it being a slow burn seals the deal for Lilith, I think. All she needs is one good hit, so even if he does open with GTH as opposed to anything else, she can kill him faster than he can kill her. If she does get too weakened, second wind probably kicks in and basically resets her to full health with extra stuff in her kit.

I'm voting Lilith.

Edit: Just realized that GTH is a bolt with an aura around it rather than around Abysswalker himself which makes it even worse for him
 
Ok so wait, remind me what she can do again? Or at least her scythe because it sounds like it just insta-kills And you do realize Zariel was around when the first gods fought the demons and it was 100% states the gods couldn't win the battle so the angels took up arms and did just as well with skill alone.

Edit: Uh? Second Wind? Also The Abyss Swallower absorbs any damage she takes of her essense, meaning the smallest cut is gonna succ up her essense chunk by chunk, his weapons are in fact Artifacts meaning they have very specific ways to be destroyed, otherwise they are basically unbreakeable, even to gods.

Do you know what the BFG is? That's basically GTH only it fires souls, not Argent Energy. It both can destroy you completely with a direct hit or boil you and by boil I mean you are basically paralized with pain as it continues to damage you.

Also question, how does that Passive 4-D Fear hax go in this fight? Considering she is in fact a fiend.
 
First off, I forgot I had that written down, and second it's not his, it's comes from the Solar who has 4-D fearhax vs Archdevils and Demon Lords.
 
Do either of them have AP calcs by any wild chance?
 
Lilith has a surface-wiping statement which is 1 exaton IIRC, and Abysswalker ranges from 2 to 20 exatons depending on the end
 
How unforunate. I have 5-Cs and 6-As but nothing in-between.
 
GreyFang82 said:
Yes, so this can be closed as a stomp
Click to expand...
Before it's closed, for record's sake, what will the wiki's strongest look like? Will Lilith be placed in 2nd because of the stone, or will Abysswalker remain in 2nd and Lilith be placed in 3rd
 
I mean... the reason Abysswalker is 2nd is because the first has like Tier 1 hax in his High 6-A form. And Lilith with the stone isn't High 6-A she's Low 2-C with higher tier hax.

So I think it's 1. Is the tier 1 hax guy 2. Abysswalker and 3. Is Lilith? I think? I'm not sure.
 
Still a separate key that scales to AP, just like soul ignition is a different key for Abysswalker.
 
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