Yor Forger speed upgrade (reposted with tags)

[YeahhBoyee]

Ok, so currently Yor Forger's speed is listed here as Supersonic+/Hypersonic with Projectiles from the feat of hitting a tennis ball fast enough that Fiona was unable to perceive her actions, her throws consistently break the sound barrier as well. Based on my observations, Yor is definitely Hypersonic+ and the entire verse should probably be looked at again in terms of speed since Twilight (who the author has stated has 70% of Yor's physical abilities), too, is listed at Supersonic+.

I'm not a calcer so i will just lay out my observations and arguments with lots of references, and if you want to do the math and/or correct me on something, you're welcome to do so.

In Chapter 51, Yor dodges a sniper rifle after it was fired. The shot is clearly fired first, the sniper even states that they dodged his shot. She couldn't completely avoid it but i would ascribe that to having to protect multiple civilians from the shot, and Yor also not having slept for 3 days which would have impacted her reaction speed. I don't know how fast a sniper rifle is, this feat by itself could possibly put her at Hypersonic+.​

In Chapter 52, she fights a bunch of pro assassins, some of which are also bullet timers and therefore Supersonic+ (since only a handgun was used), this assassin here was mid-swing, got shot at and then raises his hand in time to intercept two bullets from hitting his head. Yor then kills him before he can move. Keep in mind also that Yor is fighting 20 other people at the same time here and killed him instantly, she absolutely scales to him and should be far superior to him in speed as one of the best assassins in the entire country and her following feat of killing all of the other assassins on the ship who attacked her. Not only that, he was also not the only bullet timer there, yet again Yor catches the assassin with ease and kills him instantly.​

As mentioned in her profile, the sound-barrier-breaking swing in her profile was Yor holding back - Fiona was completely unable to perceive the first swing, and Fiona is proven to have Supersonic speed. Wouldn't being able to move fast enough that a Supersonic+ character cannot perceive your actions put your speed at Hypersonic? (without the asterisk of "Hypersonic with projectiles") Now i am aware, attack speed ≠ movement speed, so i compiled some further speed feats here, like afterimage creation and what for the lack of a better description looks like a Instant Transmission. Like i said, im not a calcer, i don't know if these last feats are actually Hypersonic+ (although im fairly certain Afterimage creation definitely is) but again its already proven that she can basically blitz bullet timer based on the cruise ship feats and the Fiona match, these are just supplementary speed feats to prove that it isn't some crazy outlier, and she is consistently leaving Supersonic speed in the dust.​

​

Conclusion: I know that only the fastest bullets can reach hypersonic speed, but these assassin who are fodder compared to Yor are proven Supersonic+ as well as Fiona, and we know from the authors official scaling in the Fanbook Eyes only, Fiona >>>Twilight >> Yor. Not to mention, her throwing speed already exceeds Hypersonic+ speed. The Volleyball feat was low-balled like nothing else, and i understand why, i am just stating that she can probably throw harder, especially since we know she was holding back in the Volleyball match, trying to appear normal. So that """outlier""" feat of Yor putting a Volleyball into deep space was possibly not even her full strength.​

​

On that note, let me just address a point here, since some people on the 8-B discussion said the Volleyball feat is a outlier (not gonna name anyone because i don't want to start drama and everyone has the right to their own opinion anyway): SxF is a verse filled with superhumans and Yor is not the only one, just the strongest one. No, i don't even need to use Twilight. Here is a small compilation of feats from side characters that break peak human limitations. My point is, even though this isn't a fantasy verse, there are humans that are blatantly and obviously stronger than any humans could be. There are many verses like this (Baki, Tokyo Revengers, Sakamoto Days) where it's understood that despite taking place in a somewhat realistic world, the verse allows for superhumans and therefore feats such as yeeting a Volleyball into space to exist, yet i see people, here and everywhere else, putting the SxF verse under this scrutiny and calling every remotely superhuman feat "comedy" and "outlier" when the author has clearly abandoned the notion of his characters abiding by human limits.

Anyway, that's all from me. I hope someone on the wiki team reads this and considers taking a second look at Yor's profile. And if you do, i appreciate the time you put into reading this, thanks!

 

[Flashlight237]

I checked and a sniper rifle has a muzzle velocity of 790 m/s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M24_Sniper_Weapon_System

So it's more like Supersonic (790/343=2.3032; Mach 2.3032)

Also, a handgun isn't anywhere near Supersonic+; it's more like Subsonic+ (based on the most common example: the Colt M1911): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol

 

[YeahhBoyee]

Oh that was a fast reply

Thanks, i was getting conflicting information when looking this up myself. Anyway, its pretty late for my tz (writing this took a tad longer than expected lol), im gonna go head to sleep, excited to check this thread tomorrow morning

 

[XXKINGXX69]

She could hear the sniper bullet, so its subsonic unless there's evidence sound is faster in this universe, or Yor can hear supersonic things somehow

 

[ElajRuengies]

Ok, so currently Yor Forger's speed is listed here as Supersonic+/Hypersonic with Projectiles from the feat of hitting a tennis ball fast enough that Fiona was unable to perceive her actions, her throws consistently break the sound barrier as well. Based on my observations, Yor is definitely Hypersonic+ and the entire verse should probably be looked at again in terms of speed since Twilight (who the author has stated has 70% of Yor's physical abilities), too, is listed at Supersonic+.

It's High Hypersonic with projectiles but go on. (Also Twilight is 60% - 70% when compared to Yor in terms of "Combat", not speed specifically- we just translate that to AP because it's consistent with how she's much stronger than him)

I'm not a calcer so i will just lay out my observations and arguments with lots of references, and if you want to do the math and/or correct me on something, you're welcome to do so.

Gladly.

In Chapter 51, Yor dodges a sniper rifle after it was fired. The shot is clearly fired first, the sniper even states that they dodged his shot. She couldn't completely avoid it but i would ascribe that to having to protect multiple civilians from the shot, and Yor also not having slept for 3 days which would have impacted her reaction speed. I don't know how fast a sniper rifle is, this feat by itself could possibly put her at Hypersonic+.​

Someone else pointed out this already but it's only Supersonic+ for most sniper rifles. In addition, Yor was literally tens of meters away from the place the bullet was fired from, meaning even if it was Hypersonic+ she still would not scale to anywhere near the full speed of the bullet given how she only had to move like a tenth the distance the bullet had to travel, at most.

In Chapter 52, she fights a bunch of pro assassins, some of which are also bullet timers and therefore Supersonic+ (since only a handgun was used)​

First of all- what country do you live in where handguns have muzzle velocities exceeding Mach 2.5? They usually top out at 1,300 feet per second, or around 400 m/s- or Mach 1.16618- Supersonic.

Secondly- that's not what being a bullet-timer is. Bullet-timers see bullets moving at the same speed, if not much slower than they are (think that iconic scene with Neo from The Matrix). The assassin in the scan blocked a shot from what looks like 4 meters away at least, by moving their arm up by like 25 centimeters. That's only Subsonic.

, this assassin here was mid-swing, got shot at and then raises his hand in time to intercept two bullets from hitting his head.​

He blocked with a different arm he was swinging with.

Yor then kills him before he can move.​

Dude ended up receiving attacks from two people at once, she didn't blitz him.

Keep in mind also that Yor is fighting 20 other people at the same time here and killed him instantly, she absolutely scales to him and should be far superior to him in speed as one of the best assassins in the entire country and her following feat of killing all of the other assassins on the ship who attacked her. Not only that, he was also not the only bullet timer there, yet again Yor catches the assassin with ease and kills him instantly.​

Alright that other scan's way more impressive in terms of bullet dodging, but even then the current scaling of Thorn Princess > Twilight >> Nightfall's Mach 3.16 feat still makes her much more impressive than catching up to a guy dodging a handgun.

As mentioned in her profile, the sound-barrier-breaking swing in her profile was Yor holding back - Fiona was completely unable to perceive the first swing, and Fiona is proven to have Supersonic+ speed. Wouldn't being able to move fast enough that a Supersonic+ character cannot perceive your actions put your speed at Hypersonic? (without the asterisk of "Hypersonic with projectiles")​

Unfortunately no- Upscaling is only allowed if the feat the character upscales from is within a factor of around 1.2 to the next Tier (which would be Mach 4.167 to upscale to Mach 5 / Hypersonic). Instead Yor's speed is just >>>>Supersonic+.

Now i am aware, attack speed ≠ movement speed, so i compiled some further speed feats here, like afterimage creation and what for the lack of a better description looks like a Instant Transmission. Like i said, im not a calcer, i don't know if these last feats are actually Hypersonic+ (although im fairly certain Afterimage creation definitely is) but again its already proven that she can basically blitz bullet timer based on the cruise ship feats and the Fiona match, these are just supplementary speed feats to prove that it isn't some crazy outlier, and she is consistently leaving Supersonic speed in the dust.​

Normal Human perception in terms of processing a single image is 75 frames per second, meaning in order to achieve Hypersonic speeds she'd need to cross roughly 22.867 meters while blitzing folk.

Conclusion: I know that only the fastest bullets can reach hypersonic speed, but these assassin who are fodder compared to Yor are proven Supersonic+ as well as Fiona, and we know from the authors official scaling in the Fanbook Eyes only, Fiona >>>Twilight >> Yor. Not to mention, her throwing speed already exceeds Hypersonic+ speed. The Volleyball feat was low-balled like nothing else, and i understand why, i am just stating that she can probably throw harder, especially since we know she was holding back in the Volleyball match, trying to appear normal. So that """outlier""" feat of Yor putting a Volleyball into deep space was possibly not even her full strength.​

Scaling far above currently existing feats by itself isn't enough to give a character bigger numbers on their profile, just an "At least" prefix. It can be annoying, but that's how it is.

On that note, let me just address a point here, since some people on the 8-B discussion said the Volleyball feat is a outlier (not gonna name anyone because i don't want to start drama and everyone has the right to their own opinion anyway): SxF is a verse filled with superhumans and Yor is not the only one, just the strongest one. No, i don't even need to use Twilight. Here is a small compilation of feats from side characters that break peak human limitations. My point is, even though this isn't a fantasy verse, there are humans that are blatantly and obviously stronger than any humans could be. There are many verses like this (Baki, Tokyo Revengers, Sakamoto Days) where it's understood that despite taking place in a somewhat realistic world, the verse allows for superhumans and therefore feats such as yeeting a Volleyball into space to exist, yet i see people, here and everywhere else, putting the SxF verse under this scrutiny and calling every remotely superhuman feat "comedy" and "outlier" when the author has clearly abandoned the notion of his characters abiding by human limits.

...I don't think you understand how big City Block level is compared to high Wall level+/baseline Small Building level. (5 Kilograms of TNT for baseline Small Building level vs. 10,000 kilograms of TNT for baseline City Block level).

So what Yor's way stronger than a bunch of characters who can throw balls and people really hard, get hit by cars, and break fences? Wall level+ is already far above that. If Yor was City Block level, her fighting the Swordsman would have literally sunk the cruise-ship they were all on.

Anyway, that's all from me. I hope someone on the wiki team reads this and considers taking a second look at Yor's profile. And if you do, i appreciate the time you put into reading this, thanks!

No problem!

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I just want to mention that the fact that a verse has several superhumans doesnt mean that an outlier cannot happen. If 90% of the superhumans only show 9-B feats, obviously something 8-B is going to be extremely suspicious, especially considering that bullets are still a dangerous thing for these characters

 

[ElajRuengies]

She could hear the sniper bullet, so its subsonic unless there's evidence sound is faster in this universe, or Yor can hear supersonic things somehow

Considering that this is heavily based on Cold War East / West Germany, it's likely the latter option (unless sound was just faster during the Cold War)- folk in fiction hear things despite going faster than sound pretty often. (Although usually it's dialogue from other Supersonic characters)

 

[YeahhBoyee]

It's High Hypersonic with projectiles but go on. (Also Twilight is 60% - 70% when compared to Yor in terms of "Combat", not speed specifically- we just translate that to AP because it's consistent with how she's much stronger than him)

Gladly.

Someone else pointed out this already but it's only Supersonic+ for most sniper rifles. In addition, Yor was literally tens of meters away from the place the bullet was fired from, meaning even if it was Hypersonic+ she still would not scale to anywhere near the full speed of the bullet given how she only had to move like a tenth the distance the bullet had to travel, at most.

First of all- what country do you live in where handguns have muzzle velocities exceeding Mach 2.5? They usually top out at 1,300 feet per second, or around 400 m/s- or Mach 1.16618- Supersonic.

Secondly- that's not what being a bullet-timer is. Bullet-timers see bullets moving at the same speed, if not much slower than they are (think that iconic scene with Neo from The Matrix). The assassin in the scan blocked a shot from what looks like 4 meters away at least, by moving their arm up by like 25 centimeters. That's only Subsonic.

He blocked with a different arm he was swinging with.

Dude ended up receiving attacks from two people at once, she didn't blitz him.

Alright that other scan's way more impressive in terms of bullet dodging, but even then the current scaling of Thorn Princess > Twilight >> Nightfall's Mach 3.16 feat still makes her much more impressive than catching up to a guy dodging a handgun.

Unfortunately no- Upscaling is only allowed if the feat the character upscales from is within a factor of around 1.2 to the next Tier (which would be Mach 4.167 to upscale to Mach 5 / Hypersonic). Instead Yor's speed is just >>>>Supersonic+.

Normal Human perception in terms of processing a single image is 75 frames per second, meaning in order to achieve Hypersonic speeds she'd need to cross roughly 22.867 meters while blitzing folk.

Scaling far above currently existing feats by itself isn't enough to give a character bigger numbers on their profile, just an "At least" prefix. It can be annoying, but that's how it is.

...I don't think you understand how big City Block level is compared to high Wall level+/baseline Small Building level. (5 Kilograms of TNT for baseline Small Building level vs. 10,000 kilograms of TNT for baseline City Block level).

So what Yor's way stronger than a bunch of characters who can throw balls and people really hard, get hit by cars, and break fences? Wall level+ is already far above that. If Yor was City Block level, her fighting the Swordsman would have literally sunk the cruise-ship they were all on.

No problem!

Great response, thank you! I was hoping someone with more experience would come in and provide accurate scaling. Just one note though, i didn't go into the whole paragraph about outliers because i was arguing for City Block level, all i argued is for her speed to be upgraded because she scales far above Supersonic. Edit: maybe a little late but Yor was far from 100% when she was fighting that Swordsman and City Block characters don't always destroy their surroundings when they fight (good example being Record of Ragnarok fighers having planetary statements and not destroying the tiny arena they always fight in)

 

[YeahhBoyee]

I just want to mention that the fact that a verse has several superhumans doesnt mean that an outlier cannot happen. If 90% of the superhumans only show 9-B feats, obviously something 8-B is going to be extremely suspicious, especially considering that bullets are still a dangerous thing for these characters

Fair point! Although i do want to say that most of Yor's feats we use to scale her are with her holding back and so far there isn't really any equal to her whatsoever among those 9-B characters, but yeah outliers can still definitely happen.

 

[YeahhBoyee]

She could hear the sniper bullet, so its subsonic unless there's evidence sound is faster in this universe, or Yor can hear supersonic things somehow

I don't know if we can apply that cold real-life logic here since every single anime i know of just ignores this. If we took this to a logical extreme we shouldn't be able to hear anything during any Goku fight in DBS because they're moving 1000000x faster than sound, yet they can talk normally. Also, it seems that the sniper timed the shot with a firework going off so i'm not even sure if Yor did hear the shot, regardless, the feat ended up being irrelevant anyway since sniper bullets don't travel nearly as fast as i thought they did.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

I don't know if we can apply that cold real-life logic here since every single anime i know of just ignores this. If we took this to a logical extreme we shouldn't be able to hear anything during any Goku fight in DBS because they're moving 1000000x faster than sound, yet they can talk normally. Also, it seems that the sniper timed the shot with a firework going off so i'm not even sure if Yor did hear the shot, regardless, the feat ended up being irrelevant anyway since sniper bullets don't travel nearly as fast as i thought they did.

That's because there's enough evidence in other fictions like DB that sound can somehow travel faster

 

[YeahhBoyee]

That's because there's enough evidence in other fictions like DB that sound can somehow travel faster

I mean ok. Here is one example i could immediately recall + the calc. I recall other incidents like this but im not gonna comb through the entire manga again for this. Its just common anime logic.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

I mean ok. Here is one example i could immediately recall + the calc. I recall other incidents like this but im not gonna comb through the entire manga again for this. Its just common anime logic.

Ok, so the feat is supersonic then, and supersonic+ reactions