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Yor Forger High Hypersonic Removal

I still haven't recieved KLOL's pixel scaling, why would I agree to closing the thread
Honestly because my pixel-scaling is unnecessary at this point because of everything else Elaj has mentioned, and you've wasted my precious time asking for something that held little to no sway over this in the first place and cost me most of my watch-time on Real vs Seville. Cease this incessant tomfoolery at once.
 
The premises of the op were wrong and debuked, then you found another faulty argument to downgrade it and was again debuked, then you found yet another argument which was yet again debuked, and then the process repeated another time. You need to simple accept that the thread have be rejected and that the rating is correct.
I still haven't recieved KLOL's pixel scaling, why would I agree to closing the thread
He isn't in the need of send you anything, you as the op and side trying to prove that the calc is wrong and trying to remove an accepted thing need to send the proof for that, in other words you are actually the one who have show the pixel scaling about the volleyball not reaching that far to need the escape velocity.

Edit: And just in case that you would argue that @KLOL506 just said that because bias or something along those lines, take in mind that he isn't a supporter of the verse and his only relaptionship with the verse so far have be in the threads involving calculations (as those are the things he have rights as calc member), so he is just a neutral part stating how you are wrong and rejecting your arguments.
 
This is dumb, how am I meant to believe the ball is 7 km out of the earth with no pixel scaling, surley you guys can realise that you need to provide proof in debates right ? lol
 
MY BROTHER IN CHRIST there is literally a page called Planet Curvature Scaling on the wiki, and all the necessary tools you need. Use that and Paint.net and figure it out for yourself. I'm not here to hold your hand.
 
MY BROTHER IN CHRIST there is literally a page called Planet Curvature Scaling on the wiki, and all the necessary tools you need. Use that and Paint.net and figure it out for yourself. I'm not here to hold your hand.
Jeez chill, I was being urgent because you guys were in a hurry to close the thread, I will pixel scale it soon
 
This is dumb, how am I meant to believe the ball is 7 km out of the earth with no pixel scaling, surley you guys can realise that you need to provide proof in debates right ? lol
Surely you can understand that as the side trying to make a change and prove something wrong you need to show proof of that correct? Don't expect the opposition to defend and prove your points for you. And like, you are literally the only person that is doubting that the ball is that far when in the panel is clearly show the thing being far away from Earth, which one of the users officially in charge of math/physics related things told you it was indeed that far off.
MY BROTHER IN CHRIST there is literally a page called Planet Curvature Scaling on the wiki, and all the necessary tools you need. Use that and Paint.net and figure it out for yourself. I'm not here to hold your hand.
And because I'm nice, here is the planet curvature page so you can learn to do it for yourself.
Jeez chill, I was being urgent because you guys were in a hurry to close the thread, I will pixel scale it soon
Because all your arguments (which you changed constantly) were debuked and you still negate to accept it.
 
Okay, its 3:37 am here so I'm just gonna list my concerns

1. What are we using as the minimum for the earths atmosphere ? Why are we using the lowest possible ones
actually thats about it, Ill pixel scale it later
 
11740.69 / 2 = 5,870.345
5,870.345 / 193 = 1 PIXEL = 30.4 Km
Distance from ball to earth is 250 Pixels
250 Pixels = 7600

So what are we basing the minimum for the earths atmosphere
 
Why. Are you using. The atmosphere. Like it means anything. In this calc.
 
so we can know whether or not Yor's ball entered orbit

My bad for saying atmosphere, I meant orbit its way to late for me to be arguing

Some sites are saying 20,000 km and others are saying 36,000 some are as low as 100, so idkl
 
1. That's not how outliers are determined.

2. This scales to absolutely no one and is a projectile-based attack. Hell, now that I look at it, it was blatantly mentioned as "High Hypersonic with projectiles". BEFORE YOU REMOVED IT THAT IS.
This could change very quickly if anyone dodges one of Yor's throws
 
This could change very quickly if anyone dodges one of Yor's throws
Yes, and we can worry about scaling shenanigans then, but even then you'd have to jump through multiple hoops for that to work, like Yor holding back or whatever.
 
so we can know whether or not Yor's ball entered orbit

My bad for saying atmosphere, I meant orbit its way to late for me to be arguing

Some sites are saying 20,000 km and others are saying 36,000 some are as low as 100, so idkl
None of this matters for the speed value at hand. PERIOD.

Like, what even is there to argue at this point other than to close the thread?
 
Dude what, if Yor's ball didn't enter orbit then it can't have been thrown at 11.7km/s you would have to calculate the speed of it
 
Dude what, if Yor's ball didn't enter orbit then it can't have been thrown at 11.7km/s you would have to calculate the speed of it
Bruh.

The visuals literally show the ball to have gone beyond the Earth's radius with curvature used. Even ElajRuengies said you don't need to use pixel-scaling to state the obvious because it's that blatant, visually speaking. Why are you even continuing the argument of "what if Yor's ball didn't enter orbit" like it means anything at this state? What even are we arguing for at this point?
 
1. Earth orbit does not have a defined height. There are many different Earth Orbits, most of which are well below 20,000 km.

2. Escape Velocity only applies to ballistic projectiles like bullets which only get as much thrust as however hard they were launched from the ground.

Rockets and similar objects- which carry their own fuel and can continually counter the force of Earth's gravity by burning said fuel- do not have to reach to Escape Velocity in order to leave the planet.

3. Can someone please close this thread now that the OP's arguments have been countered?
Like, literally just read this.
 
@Agnaa has some concerns about using escape velocity in this instance.

He said this:

"There's a valid reason to reject that feat, which Vapourrr didn't articulate well. Just reaching 8000 km isn't enough for escape velocity. The moon is within the gravitational pull of Earth, and is 363,000 km away."

@ElajRuengies Would you be kind enough to mount a response to this, if you have the time?
 
@Agnaa has some concerns about using escape velocity in this instance.

He said this:

"There's a valid reason to reject that feat, which Vapourrr didn't articulate well. Just reaching 8000 km isn't enough for escape velocity. The moon is within the gravitational pull of Earth, and is 363,000 km away."

@ElajRuengies Would you be kind enough to mount a response to this, if you have the time?
I knew this I actually didn’t say anything because I’m so smart I didn’t want to flex
 
I knew this I actually didn’t say anything because I’m so smart I didn’t want to flex
There are more reasons going for this than just the height.

Didn't even need to do curvature equations. The ball goes from the roof of a building to blatantly above the stratosphere after 1 panel.

Escape Velocity was used as a lowball for the calc- using the Rule of Thumb 1 panel timeframe of 5 seconds would've resulted in City Block level Yor if I remember correctly
There is also this to consider.
 
1 panel timeframe is a very case-by-case thing, sometimes they represent fairly large sequences of time. 5 seconds is typically reserved for movements within human scales. Cutting to the aftermath of a planet-scale movement feat shouldn't be assumed at 5 seconds.
 
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Just use the escape velocity, it will be undoubtedly played for laughs and be quick in the anime too, so it works as a low end. No need to complicate the simple.
 
1 panel timeframe is a very case-by-case thing, sometimes they represent fairly large sequences of time. 5 seconds is typically reserved for movements within human scales.
That [doesn't] [seem] [to] [be] [the] [case] to me but alright.
Cutting to the aftermath of a planet-scale movement feat shouldn't be assumed at 5 seconds.
Given the ball's distance of ~8000km above the Earth in the shot, 11.186 km/s this means ~715.18 seconds, or about 12 minutes, passed between panels.

Now, this is still an assumption, and since this was the last shot of the Volleyball Game before it cuts to Yor having tea with Melinda and her friends, it's quite possible that that was the last serve of the game, and 20 minutes, 30 minutes, or even an hour passed between the panel of the ball blowing through the roof of the sports hall and the panel of the ball in space, but at 12 minutes between the panels, this feat has already been lowballed into the ground.

If you wanna remove the Calc and wait for S2 for a solid timeframe, then fine, but I think it's alright to keep using the current assumption for now given how conservative it already it.
 
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I rather wait the anime, remember the Yor Kicking Car It was beyond expectations when the anime released
 
Given the ball's distance of ~8000km above the Earth in the shot, 11.186 km/s this means ~715.18 seconds, or about 12 minutes, passed between panels.

Now, this is still an assumption, and since this was the last shot of the Volleyball Game before it cuts to Yor having tea with Melinda and her friends, it's quite possible that that was the last serve of the game, and 20 minutes, 30 minutes, or even an hour passed between the panel of the ball blowing through the roof of the sports hall and the panel of the ball in space, but at 12 minutes betweent the panels, this feat has already been lowballed into the ground.

If you wanna remove the Calc and wait for S2 for a solid timeframe, then fine, but I think it's alright to keep using the current assumption for now given how conservative it already it.
idk if S2 would actually give a solid timeframe, I could easily imagine it running into cinematic time issues, particularly if we don't see it moving a notable distance in the shot in space.

Do you know how long it will be until S2 releases?
 
idk if S2 would actually give a solid timeframe, I could easily imagine it running into cinematic time issues, particularly if we don't see it moving a notable distance in the shot in space.
I mean, if it just becomes a twinkle in the sky then we could just use distance to the horizon, assuming I'm remembering how that's done correctly.
Do you know how long it will be until S2 releases?
It starts October 2023, although it'll probably be near the end of the season since there's the whole Cruise Ship Arc first.
 
It starts October 2023, although it'll probably be near the end of the season since there's the whole Cruise Ship Arc first.
Hmm, so maybe on the order of 4 to 6 months, that may be far enough away to change.

What's the next highest feat below that?
 
The second season start at October of this year, however with a total of 25 episodes (divided in two halves that had a six months pause between halves) the first season covered about 38 chapters of the manga while this volleyball feat happened at chapter 65 of the manga so the second season would need to also have more than 12 episodes to cover until that (around 18 chapters if I did the math correctly) and in case that the second season get also divided in two halves we would need to wait even more months for that to come, so if we wait until this get adapted I don't see us waiting less than a year, if not even more than a year and half.
 
Yor's Volleyball Crater feat, which has been recalced like 6 times comes in at 3.10 Megajoules- not that huge a gap.
Nice.

I assume there's no other projectile speed feat.
The second season start at October of this year, however with a total of 25 episodes (divided in two halves that had a six months pause between halves) the first season covered about 38 chapters of the manga while this volleyball feat happened at chapter 65 of the manga so the second season would need to also have more than 12 episodes to cover until that (around 18 chapters if I did the math correctly) and in case that the second season get also divided in two halves we would need to wait even more months for that to come, so if we wait until this get adapted I don't see us waiting less than a year, if not even more than a year and half.
Oof, if it is likely to take that long, I think it would be best to remove it until then. 4-6 months already seemed a bit borderline.
 
Yeah, sounds like it won't actually involve a tier change.

Who should I ping?
 
@The_Impress @Sir_Ovens @Tllmbrg @Confluctor @catzlaflame @Giannysmag @KobsterHope07 @Kisaragi_Megumi @Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)

Never mind, some other justifications were provided, this feat should be fine, your presence isn't needed.

Short version: This feat assumes escape velocity (which means leaving a planet's gravitational influence), when it 8000 kms from Earth; the moon is 363,000 kms away. So that assumption's bad.

We won't get a better timeframe for the feat until the anime, which probably won't air an adaptation of this feat for a year.

So I think the verse should be downgraded to the next-best feat (like, 5x lower in the same tier), and the projectile speed rating should be removed, until this can get recalced.

Sound good?
 
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Oof, if it is likely to take that long, I think it would be best to remove it until then. 4-6 months already seemed a bit borderline.
Why don't just use it until then and update it when the anime give a timeframe (if it give one) instead of just discard the feat completely? The same thing was done in the past with another Yor feat in season 1. Also, would be really that bad to just use 11km/s as a low ball? After all, as showed by @ElajRuengies is normally assumed, even by calc members (and mind you even with feats involving something reaching space like this one), that 5 seconds is the baseline assumption between panels if nothing suggest otherwise, so compromising with something far longer than that (715.18 seconds) wasn't something any calc member seemed to have a problem, neither @KLOL506 (who suggested the idea) or @AbaddonTheDisappointment (who approved the calc).
Who should I ping?
If you will ping people then I would like that you also ping @DemonGodMitchAubin and @CloverDragon03 to hear their opinion about 5 seconds being the base assumption between panels.
 
Why don't just use it until then and update it when the anime give a timeframe (if it give one) instead of just discard the feat completely? The same thing was done in the past with another Yor feat in season 1.
That's the plan.
Also, would be really that bad to just use 11km/s as a low ball? After all, as showed by @ElajRuengies is normally assumed, even by calc members (and mind you even with feats involving something reaching space like this one), that 5 seconds is the baseline assumption between panels if nothing suggest otherwise, so compromising with something far longer than that (715.18 seconds) wasn't something any calc member seemed to have a problem, neither @KLOL506 (who suggested the idea) or @AbaddonTheDisappointment (who approved the calc).
I think that's wack, and have seen more generous timeframes rejected before.

For the specific feat you link, that's about splitting clouds with an attack, where a 5 second timeframe does seem reasonable to me, due to the relatively immediate nature of an attack.
If you will ping people then I would like that you also ping @DemonGodMitchAubin and @CloverDragon03 to hear their opinion about 5 seconds being the base assumption between panels.
@DemonGodMitchAubin @CloverDragon03 I don't think 5 seconds should always be the assumption for manga panels. In most everyday cases this is fine, but when they're cutting to aftermaths of large-scale travel it seems overly generous. We don't give anything nearly as beneficial for that for text-based feats, and for audio-visual mediums we often treat that sort of thing as a violation of Cinematic Time rules.

EDIT: That thing isn't too relevant to this thread in general now, but may still deserve an answer.
 
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Just use the escape velocity, it will be undoubtedly played for laughs and be quick in the anime too, so it works as a low end. No need to complicate the simple.
This is most likely what's gonna happen in the anime.
Yeah, sounds like it won't actually involve a tier change.
It will however involve a change in the speed tiers albeit attack speed.

I do have a suggestion for a low ball for the calc.
Why not we calculate throwing the volleyball itself to 8000km max and assume that gravity made the ball's velocity 0 at about 8000 km.
We do have to account for change in the gravity due to distance, and some integration maybe involved in the calc.
 
I do have a suggestion for a low ball for the calc.
Why not we calculate throwing the volleyball itself to 8000km max and assume that gravity made the ball's velocity 0 at about 8000 km.
We do have to account for change in the gravity due to distance, and some integration maybe involved in the calc.
Oh right, you can actually do that, I forgot.

That'd give an initial velocity of 12.53 km/s, actually slightly higher, if you ignore the change in gravity due to distance. At 2000 km it's already below 6 m/s^2, so taking that into account would put the result lower. Probably not too much lower, but it'd be tricky for me to calculate. Let me think on it for a bit.

EDIT: Assuming gravity is 5m/s^2 for the whole trip has a speed of 9km/s. That'd still have the same speed rating. Maybe this should just be left as-is then.
 
That's the plan.

I think that's wack, and have seen more generous timeframes rejected before.
If that's the plan why are you trying to remove it until the anime?

The current calc assume that the initial force of the ball was able to maintain it moving for a whole 12 minutes as not inflate the results with a shorter and more likely timeframe, while your suggestion would be assuming that instead that initial force maintained it moving for far longer than 12 minutes against the gravitational pull of Earth.

Additonally, if indeed the ball took so long in reach space there wouldn't appear the explosion effect representing the force from the initial throw as by that point it would already be dispersed (with a 12 minutes timeframe it would also already disappear but again, the 12 minutes thing is just a extreme lowball).
 
I do have a suggestion for a low ball for the calc.
Why not we calculate throwing the volleyball itself to 8000km max and assume that gravity made the ball's velocity 0 at about 8000 km.
We do have to account for change in the gravity due to distance, and some integration maybe involved in the calc.
The ball honestly still appear to be moving to me, but I guess I could be fine using that instead for the speed until the anime.
 
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