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.......thats exactly why Yhwach wouldnt have Acasulity Type 2.Ghuttsu said:
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Yhwach Hax Downgrade (small)
- Thread starter ProfessorKukui4Life
- Start date
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Time stopping infinite speed characters (who, btw, still exist as past and future versions of themselves) is a completely different situation than this.Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
You cannot use Future Manipulation to affect someone who doesnt even exist in the future.
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And he also says that he is Yhwach. Stop ignoring this to suit your narrative.
I find this pretty funny because that's exactly what you're doing right now. Zangetsu states that he is and isn't making the entire statement incredibly inconsistent and debunks itself. As I said you cant use this as an arguement as it would be you suiting your own narrative.
Not really. Because my point would still be solid, whether Zangetsu is Yhwachs past self or not.
Ichigos Quincy Powers in the present would have to be paradoxed out of history if Yhwach's past doesnt exist because if Yhwach never existed in the past, Ichigo and no one else would ever get Quincy Powers from Yhwach in the first place.
The fact that they continue to have Quincy Powers is explicit solid evidence of Yhwach's past continuing to exist in history. And if you have an existing past, you cant have Type 2 Acasuality.
Don't stonewall please and thank you. Your argument isnt solid as its based upon a statement that can't be true as it's a massive contradiction and using it is you cherry picking. Again its quite literally impossible for the old man to be Yhwach since Yhwach was incapacitated for over 1000 years. I'm not gonna address your other points since they all rely on Zangetsu being Yhwach which isn't the case. This argument would also mean that Ichigo can use the Almighty since Zangetsu gave Ichigo all of his power, and obviously Ichigo can't use that.
I find this pretty funny because that's exactly what you're doing right now. Zangetsu states that he is and isn't making the entire statement incredibly inconsistent and debunks itself. As I said you cant use this as an arguement as it would be you suiting your own narrative.
Not really. Because my point would still be solid, whether Zangetsu is Yhwachs past self or not.
Ichigos Quincy Powers in the present would have to be paradoxed out of history if Yhwach's past doesnt exist because if Yhwach never existed in the past, Ichigo and no one else would ever get Quincy Powers from Yhwach in the first place.
The fact that they continue to have Quincy Powers is explicit solid evidence of Yhwach's past continuing to exist in history. And if you have an existing past, you cant have Type 2 Acasuality.
Don't stonewall please and thank you. Your argument isnt solid as its based upon a statement that can't be true as it's a massive contradiction and using it is you cherry picking. Again its quite literally impossible for the old man to be Yhwach since Yhwach was incapacitated for over 1000 years. I'm not gonna address your other points since they all rely on Zangetsu being Yhwach which isn't the case. This argument would also mean that Ichigo can use the Almighty since Zangetsu gave Ichigo all of his power, and obviously Ichigo can't use that.
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If Yhwach has no past then...again....mind explaining the huge inconsistencies that would happen with him not existing in the past?
Show us SK Yhwach's past.
Like Ichigo still having Quincy Powers despite Yhwach not supposed to be existing in the past?
Where does it say Yhwach dying would cause all quincy to lose their powers? this would only occur if he used The Almighty before the right time as stated in the series.
Or Ichigo remembering Zangetsu?
Again Zangetsu isn't Yhwach, you need to stop pushing this ridiculous statement.
Or everyone in the war remembering Yhwach, even after he absorbs Mimihagi?
I'm confused what does even means?
All of this would have been changed and deleted from history if Yhwach's past was actually non-existent.
Why would any of this happend in Bleach?
Not to mention the Almighty still be able to affect Yhwach.
And time stop works on infinite speed on certain verses, also nowhere does it say type 2 gives you immunity only resistance. Just to fix a broken sword they had to make a new timeline and use causality manipulation.
Show us SK Yhwach's past.
Like Ichigo still having Quincy Powers despite Yhwach not supposed to be existing in the past?
Where does it say Yhwach dying would cause all quincy to lose their powers? this would only occur if he used The Almighty before the right time as stated in the series.
Or Ichigo remembering Zangetsu?
Again Zangetsu isn't Yhwach, you need to stop pushing this ridiculous statement.
Or everyone in the war remembering Yhwach, even after he absorbs Mimihagi?
I'm confused what does even means?
All of this would have been changed and deleted from history if Yhwach's past was actually non-existent.
Why would any of this happend in Bleach?
Not to mention the Almighty still be able to affect Yhwach.
And time stop works on infinite speed on certain verses, also nowhere does it say type 2 gives you immunity only resistance. Just to fix a broken sword they had to make a new timeline and use causality manipulation.
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>I find this pretty funny because that's exactly what you're doing right now. Zangetsu states that he is and isn't making the entire statement incredibly inconsistent and debunks itself. As I said you cant use this as an arguement as it would be you suiting your own narrative.
Not true. That would be like saying no one is omnipresent because they exist everywhere and nowhere at the same time. It's not inconsistent.
>Don't stonewall please and thank you. Your argument isnt solid as its based upon a statement that can't be true as it's a massive contradiction and using it is you cherry picking. Again its quite literally impossible for the old man to be Yhwach since Yhwach was incapacitated for over 1000 years. I'm not gonna address your other points since they all rely on Zangetsu being Yhwach which isn't the case.
You...didnt actually address the last point.
But anyway, my argument doesnt rely on Zangetsu being Yhwachs past self in the slightest. Because even if he isnt, he would still be a part of Yhwach and his power that was given to Ichigo from the past. Just like all Quincy powers are as Yhwach is the source of them.
And they would all never have quincy powers to begin with if Yhwach's past doesnt exist. Thus, a paradox.
Not true. That would be like saying no one is omnipresent because they exist everywhere and nowhere at the same time. It's not inconsistent.
>Don't stonewall please and thank you. Your argument isnt solid as its based upon a statement that can't be true as it's a massive contradiction and using it is you cherry picking. Again its quite literally impossible for the old man to be Yhwach since Yhwach was incapacitated for over 1000 years. I'm not gonna address your other points since they all rely on Zangetsu being Yhwach which isn't the case.
You...didnt actually address the last point.
But anyway, my argument doesnt rely on Zangetsu being Yhwachs past self in the slightest. Because even if he isnt, he would still be a part of Yhwach and his power that was given to Ichigo from the past. Just like all Quincy powers are as Yhwach is the source of them.
And they would all never have quincy powers to begin with if Yhwach's past doesnt exist. Thus, a paradox.
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Almighty isn't future manipulation... It's literally a shit ton of random powers as seen in the novel thread. It's also the ultimate ability in the series. It working on things it shouldn't is a feat for itself. I laos love how you're ignoring the reason he even got it in the 1st place with a bunch of random ass nitpicks.ProfessorKukui4Life said:
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Where is any of this stated in series dude? you're legit making things up.ProfessorKukui4Life said:
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Where does it say Yhwach dying would cause all quincy to lose their powers? this would only occur if he used The Almighty before the right time as stated in the series.
Yhwach having never existed in the past is different than him dying. If he never existed quincies could never have gained any power.
Or everyone in the war remembering Yhwach, even after he absorbs Mimihagi?
I'm confused what does even means?
If Yhwach was a type 2 acasual after absorbing the hand then no one would remember he existed since he had no past
Why would any of this happend in Bleach?
You have to prove that Bleach completely disregards how acasuality, paradoxes and such work.
Yhwach having never existed in the past is different than him dying. If he never existed quincies could never have gained any power.
Or everyone in the war remembering Yhwach, even after he absorbs Mimihagi?
I'm confused what does even means?
If Yhwach was a type 2 acasual after absorbing the hand then no one would remember he existed since he had no past
Why would any of this happend in Bleach?
You have to prove that Bleach completely disregards how acasuality, paradoxes and such work.
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Not true. That would be like saying no one is omnipresent because they exist everywhere and nowhere at the same time. It's not inconsistent
It is and don't start using Golden Mean Fallacies now. That's something that can happen as seen in Hellsing. You can't be someone while also not being them. Your argument holds no grounds whatsoever for Zangetsu being Yhwach whenever its impossible for that to happen within the timeline.
You...didnt actually address the last point.
But anyway, my argument doesnt rely on Zangetsu being Yhwachs past self in the slightest. Because even if he isnt, he would still be a part of Yhwach and his power that was given to Ichigo from the past. Just like all Quincy powers are as Yhwach is the source of them.
And they would all never have quincy powers to begin with if Yhwach's past doesnt exist. Thus, a paradox.
Why would i wherever it's blatantly incorrect? Also they'd still have Quincy powers. Yhwach isn't the reason they exist, the Rei-O is the reason why Quincy exist not Yhwach so that argument is flawed. Read the novel. Theres nothing to suggest that a paradox would happen for no good reason as this reiles on Zangetsu being Yhwach which is impossible.
It is and don't start using Golden Mean Fallacies now. That's something that can happen as seen in Hellsing. You can't be someone while also not being them. Your argument holds no grounds whatsoever for Zangetsu being Yhwach whenever its impossible for that to happen within the timeline.
You...didnt actually address the last point.
But anyway, my argument doesnt rely on Zangetsu being Yhwachs past self in the slightest. Because even if he isnt, he would still be a part of Yhwach and his power that was given to Ichigo from the past. Just like all Quincy powers are as Yhwach is the source of them.
And they would all never have quincy powers to begin with if Yhwach's past doesnt exist. Thus, a paradox.
Why would i wherever it's blatantly incorrect? Also they'd still have Quincy powers. Yhwach isn't the reason they exist, the Rei-O is the reason why Quincy exist not Yhwach so that argument is flawed. Read the novel. Theres nothing to suggest that a paradox would happen for no good reason as this reiles on Zangetsu being Yhwach which is impossible.
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>Where does it say Yhwach dying would cause all quincy to lose their powers? this would only occur if he used The Almighty before the right time as stated in the series.
Again, read dude. If Yhwach's past is to be deleted, then everyone who has ever gotten Quincy Powers from him would have their powers paradoxed out of existence since Yhwach wouldnt be in the past anymore. His past would not exist.
The fact that they keep their Quincy Powers would mean Yhwach would have to exist in the past in order for them to get their powers from him in the first place.
>Again Zangetsu isn't Yhwach
Doesnt matter, so stop. Whether Zangetsu is or isnt Yhwach, Ichigo cannot remember him if Yhwach doesnt exist in the past since Zangetsu comes from Yhwach. Zangetsu would be time paradoxed out of history as he would have never come from Yhwach in the 1st place.
And he wouldnt come from Yhwach because Yhwach wouldnt be existng in the past.
>I'm confused what does even means?
Whats confusing about this? If Yhwach gained AT2 from absoring Mimihagi, then that means Yhwach's past is erased. Meaning everyone who had ever associated with him in the past would no longer remember him because he no longer exists in the past.
Remembering someone whose past is supposedly deleted is anti-feat against someone having Acasuality Type 2.
>Why would any of this happend in Bleach?
Because Yhwachs past would be deleted, therefore events involving him the past would be paradoxed and changed as a result. They weren't, meaning his past still exists.
>And time stop works on infinite speed on certain verses, also nowhere does it say type 2 gives you immunity only resistance.
For one, the description of Acasuality Type 2 says its immunity. If you dont exist in the past, then your immune to changes in the past because...theres nothing to change. This is no different than being immune to soul manipulation via having no soul. You cant effect what is never there.
Two, time stop working on infinite speed beings and future manipulation working on beings who do not exist in the future are 2 very different things, again.
Because unlike the former, you cannot manipulate what doesnt exist.
>Almighty isn't future manipulation...
But it effects the future, which still falls right under my point.
If Yhwach doesnt exist in the future, then the Almighty would never be able to benefit him by applying a future to himself. Its that simple.
Again, read dude. If Yhwach's past is to be deleted, then everyone who has ever gotten Quincy Powers from him would have their powers paradoxed out of existence since Yhwach wouldnt be in the past anymore. His past would not exist.
The fact that they keep their Quincy Powers would mean Yhwach would have to exist in the past in order for them to get their powers from him in the first place.
>Again Zangetsu isn't Yhwach
Doesnt matter, so stop. Whether Zangetsu is or isnt Yhwach, Ichigo cannot remember him if Yhwach doesnt exist in the past since Zangetsu comes from Yhwach. Zangetsu would be time paradoxed out of history as he would have never come from Yhwach in the 1st place.
And he wouldnt come from Yhwach because Yhwach wouldnt be existng in the past.
>I'm confused what does even means?
Whats confusing about this? If Yhwach gained AT2 from absoring Mimihagi, then that means Yhwach's past is erased. Meaning everyone who had ever associated with him in the past would no longer remember him because he no longer exists in the past.
Remembering someone whose past is supposedly deleted is anti-feat against someone having Acasuality Type 2.
>Why would any of this happend in Bleach?
Because Yhwachs past would be deleted, therefore events involving him the past would be paradoxed and changed as a result. They weren't, meaning his past still exists.
>And time stop works on infinite speed on certain verses, also nowhere does it say type 2 gives you immunity only resistance.
For one, the description of Acasuality Type 2 says its immunity. If you dont exist in the past, then your immune to changes in the past because...theres nothing to change. This is no different than being immune to soul manipulation via having no soul. You cant effect what is never there.
Two, time stop working on infinite speed beings and future manipulation working on beings who do not exist in the future are 2 very different things, again.
Because unlike the former, you cannot manipulate what doesnt exist.
>Almighty isn't future manipulation...
But it effects the future, which still falls right under my point.
If Yhwach doesnt exist in the future, then the Almighty would never be able to benefit him by applying a future to himself. Its that simple.
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>It is and don't start using Golden Mean Fallacies now. That's something that can happen as seen in Hellsing. You can't be someone while also not being them. Your argument holds no grounds whatsoever for Zangetsu being Yhwach whenever its impossible for that to happen within the timeline.
Just like you cant be everywhere and no where at the same time? But thats not a reason to say Omnipresence doesnt exist? Again, your point literally doesnt address anything here.
> Also they'd still have Quincy powers. Yhwach isn't the reason they exist, the Rei-O is the reason why Quincy exist not Yhwach so that argument is flawed. Read the novel. Theres nothing to suggest that a paradox would happen for no good reason as this reiles on Zangetsu being Yhwach which is impossible
You literally just ignored everything here too...
Whatever role Rei-o has to do with this doesnt change a thing. Ichigo and other Quincies got their powers from Yhwach. That would literally be impossible to happen if Yhwach never existed in the past because then where would they get their quincy powers from? No one, thus their powers would be paradoxed out of history. Yet their powers still very much exist, which means Yhwach would have to exist in the past in order for them to get their powers from Yhwach to begin with.
Thats like saying because humans come from another source, it doesnt matter if my mom and dad didnt get together to have me be born from them. When it still would because if they never get together, I would never be born. Thus, I in the present would get paradoxed out of time.
Just like you cant be everywhere and no where at the same time? But thats not a reason to say Omnipresence doesnt exist? Again, your point literally doesnt address anything here.
> Also they'd still have Quincy powers. Yhwach isn't the reason they exist, the Rei-O is the reason why Quincy exist not Yhwach so that argument is flawed. Read the novel. Theres nothing to suggest that a paradox would happen for no good reason as this reiles on Zangetsu being Yhwach which is impossible
You literally just ignored everything here too...
Whatever role Rei-o has to do with this doesnt change a thing. Ichigo and other Quincies got their powers from Yhwach. That would literally be impossible to happen if Yhwach never existed in the past because then where would they get their quincy powers from? No one, thus their powers would be paradoxed out of history. Yet their powers still very much exist, which means Yhwach would have to exist in the past in order for them to get their powers from Yhwach to begin with.
Thats like saying because humans come from another source, it doesnt matter if my mom and dad didnt get together to have me be born from them. When it still would because if they never get together, I would never be born. Thus, I in the present would get paradoxed out of time.
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None of what you said actually matters as to why he has it in the 1st place. As long as Mimihagi has it Yhwach does as well via absorbing him. So feel free to debunk Mimihagi's type 2 using evidence from the manga and novel.
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Or Yhwach doesnt just get powers from absorbing people due to the massive amount of inconsistencies with him being an Acasual Type 2.Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
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Thankfully we know he absorbs powers and abilities as stated multiple times in verse.
So he lied about absorbing Mimihagi's powers and the SK?
So he lied about absorbing Mimihagi's powers and the SK?
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Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Dont go saying the last part, they might genuinely argue that next despite the Manga and novel telling us otherwise. Wouldn't be the first time they argued against something that's cut clear.
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If him absorbing Mimihagi's powers (isnt Mimihagi's Type 2 Acasuality just a state of being btw?) is whats inconsistent then Yhwach shouldnt have it just be absorbing Mimihagi at the very least.Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
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It doesnt matter if he didnt get his acasuality yet though. Because the moment he gets it, all of these paradoxes should have happend yet didnt.Ghuttsu said:
Madoka for example didnt have Type 2 Acasuality from the get go in her verse. But when she does get it, she gets literally deleted from all of history except for the present, which is what qualifies her to have it in the first place.
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hat explains why he's the lichpin of the verse.hat explains why he's the lichpin of the verse. as i said though. you're showing chapters from the past before he got his acasuality said:
as i said though.
you're showing chapters from the past before he got his acasuality, so it's irrelevant. literally 70 chapters before he got it.
as soon he absorbed mimihagi he was never shown in the past.
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There isn't a single anti-feat regarding Yhwachs absorption, it's literally what makes him special. None of you typed out like I said has anything to do with why he has it in the 1st place. Just like how he absorbed SK and gained new abilities.
Debunk Mimihagi and you debunk Yhwach having it.
Debunk Mimihagi and you debunk Yhwach having it.
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Evidence? Because if this is true, this should have been immediately posted from the get-go.Ghuttsu said:
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Tsukishima used past manipulation on Ichigo's Bankai, they had to literally make a new timeline and use causality manipulation to fix a broken sword.
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Mimihagi is literally the only reason why Yhwach would have this in the first place. And its absorbing Mimihagi vs a massive number of inconsistencies with Yhwach having Acasuality Type 2.Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Mimihagi doesnt make this as absolute and ironclad as you want it to be Sigurd.
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It does ProfessorKukui because now you're going against Yhwach's abilities in general and his very lore as to what makes him special his literal ability to steal powers from others.
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Technically speaking, Yhwach having Acasuality 2 would mean Bleach as a hole would not exist as it is.
I'd chalk it up to Kubo not actually understanding the power he's giving to Yhwach/Mimihagi and tbf, it does require more assumptions to justify Acasuality 2 for Mimihagi and Yhwach given the obvious implications of him having it.
I'd chalk it up to Kubo not actually understanding the power he's giving to Yhwach/Mimihagi and tbf, it does require more assumptions to justify Acasuality 2 for Mimihagi and Yhwach given the obvious implications of him having it.
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And I did. With an entire post worths of explanation and evidence. Along with a thread where I got feedback on how Acasuality Type 2 works and what would disqualify it.Ghuttsu said:
Meanwhile, your only part in this entire thread was saying "past scans" which doesnt change a thing here.
So no, the burden of proof is on you. If you claim Yhwach has no past, then show evidence for it. Which I doubt you can do as this entire thread would have ended a while ago if such supposed evidence existed.
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https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proofGhuttsu said:
He doesn't have to prove that Yhwach isn't acausal, you have to prove that he is.
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Then answer me this.Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Is Mimihagi's own Type 2 Acasuality an actual ability or is it a state of being?
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It's an ability he has same as Pernida who governs "evolution" with evolution based abilities. Which was explained away as the SK being a being of contradictions. Who was also absorbed.ProfessorKukui4Life said:
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It's an ability of course.
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How is it an ability then? Does he actively just not exist in the past and future anymore? Or is it always like that?
Because that would just be state of being if the latter. Like how omnipresence is treated as an ability here but its a state of being kind of thing nonetheless.
Because that would just be state of being if the latter. Like how omnipresence is treated as an ability here but its a state of being kind of thing nonetheless.
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Because it's his ability? every organ of the SK is a different power.
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I didnt ask if it was his ability. Im asking how its not a state of being kind of thing.
One cant just choose to not exist in points in time and then just....choose to exist in them. Acasuality doesnt work like that.
One cant just choose to not exist in points in time and then just....choose to exist in them. Acasuality doesnt work like that.
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Power Absorption doesnt grant you state of being abilities unless im missing something here.Ghuttsu said:
Someone doesnt become omnipresent for example just because they absorb one. Unless you have examples of where this happened.
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Literally nowhere is this stated, nor is this anything like omnipresence..
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