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Big E is at his 1-C Lowball. Who gun win?
Big E: 2
YHVH: 1
Big E: 2
YHVH: 1
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YHVH (SMT) VS God Empra
- Thread starter ZacharyGrossman273
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So both are equated in 9D?
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Yes, GEOM through powerscaling off of tzeentch
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I really don't see how God Emperor may win. Yes, The Emperor can fight against 4 1-Cs at once. However, look at how massive the Endgame Apocalypse Party is.
Nanashi, Flynn, Asahi, Navarre, Nozomi, Gaston, Toki, Hallelujah, Isabeau, Walter and Jonathan. And on his Peak YHVH is superior to all of them.
That isn't even mentioning all of his Buffing and Debuffing Abilities, which can render his foes immensely weaker and him immensely stronger, and the Durabilty Piercing Attacks, and how he can just shout "BLAH" and make someone just as strong as him drop dead.
Nanashi, Flynn, Asahi, Navarre, Nozomi, Gaston, Toki, Hallelujah, Isabeau, Walter and Jonathan. And on his Peak YHVH is superior to all of them.
That isn't even mentioning all of his Buffing and Debuffing Abilities, which can render his foes immensely weaker and him immensely stronger, and the Durabilty Piercing Attacks, and how he can just shout "BLAH" and make someone just as strong as him drop dead.
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bump
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@Matt. Do all of them fight him at once? Honest question, because I don't think we treat it like that with JRPGs. For example, I'm pretty sure for SE games, we treat the final boss fights 3-4 party members instead of the whole cast.
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@Cal
No. If the characters were canonically present, then they contributed to the final battle, especially when the party members vary and assinging a tier to some of them is both silly and almost impossible.
No. If the characters were canonically present, then they contributed to the final battle, especially when the party members vary and assinging a tier to some of them is both silly and almost impossible.
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Then that makes Lavos even more impressive. Same with Sephiroth.
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Well I mean Sephiroth is the one with the 4-B feat, but I see what you mean.
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Well here, YHVH is also the one with the 1-C feat.
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Well, feat for lack of a better word. Existence is more like it.
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Well, he has a feat in being superior to 11 1-Cs, and not only being capable of killing one of them with a word, but also reducing all of them to the brink of death with another word.
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I thought the Voice of God was durability negation? If so, I don't think that really counts as a feat, just that it's the strength of his hax.Matthew Schroeder said:
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True, both are, but it's a feat in his hax.
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Not sure. Don't know if the Emperor can muster what is needed to put YHVH down for good, but I doubt YHVH can do so for the Emperor, either. YHVH's foes were obscenely powerful, but not nearly as "abstract" as Big E, which is a pretty huge deal here, as debuffing and VoG aren't nearly as useful against a foe who is essentially an unfettered, unstructured force of consciousness and will without any real form that is native to a place where, even for the beings inhabiting it, cause and effect isn't a thing. It's important to remember that the conflict between the Chaos Gods and similar beings isn't actually giant daemonic entities beating the tar out of each other, as that is simply the limited way it is viewed by and described to lesser beings, but more the unending conflict of abstract ideas due to inherent differences in what they are on a fundamental level.
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After take a quick look on both of their profiles, i would vote inconclusive since they have so much familiar abilities. But i have a few thing to ask
Perfect YHVH (Goldie heads) or the nerfed YHVH (the black serpent) ?
Because the perfect YHVH is actually one with every existences, until his existence's nature got denied and being reduced to something more demon-like, which are no longer 1 with whole all existences. So yes, it's accurate to say that YHVH IS an abstract.
YHVH's foes were obscenely powerful, but not nearly as "abstract" as Big E
Well, In the Apocalypse, it's has been explained that the gods and demons were actually the nature concepts given form by human's observation. Once a human see a natural phenomenon, he thinks "that must be a work of Gods" then the nature concept that govern the said phenomenon will take form of a god (Yes, you can call them Abstract). Hell, even the gods and demons was made by the energy that do not bound by the law of physis. Pretty much like your Big E
Like i said on above, i will vote inconclusive since there are nothing to say any of them would win
Perfect YHVH (Goldie heads) or the nerfed YHVH (the black serpent) ?
Because the perfect YHVH is actually one with every existences, until his existence's nature got denied and being reduced to something more demon-like, which are no longer 1 with whole all existences. So yes, it's accurate to say that YHVH IS an abstract.
YHVH's foes were obscenely powerful, but not nearly as "abstract" as Big E
Well, In the Apocalypse, it's has been explained that the gods and demons were actually the nature concepts given form by human's observation. Once a human see a natural phenomenon, he thinks "that must be a work of Gods" then the nature concept that govern the said phenomenon will take form of a god (Yes, you can call them Abstract). Hell, even the gods and demons was made by the energy that do not bound by the law of physis. Pretty much like your Big E
Like i said on above, i will vote inconclusive since there are nothing to say any of them would win
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Gods and demons in SMT are basically non-corporeal computer data, or pure informaion in their true forms.
And much like MagiSinbad said, they are nature and phenomena personified.
And much like MagiSinbad said, they are nature and phenomena personified.
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Which is why YHVH did a lot of sealing to other deities in the first place, was it not? Asking seriously, as I don't actually remember 100%.Matthew Schroeder said:
Anyway, pretty much why I voted inconclusive, as well.
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Pretty sure YHVH can kill the deities, he just doesn't care in the slightest. Perpetuating human suffering is his desire, and gods, demons and angels all play a role in that.
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@Matt
Really? I thought a Godslayer was stated to be necessary to actually put a permanent end to divine beings, though I don't remember if YHVH was any different.
Really? I thought a Godslayer was stated to be necessary to actually put a permanent end to divine beings, though I don't remember if YHVH was any different.
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I don't think it makes sense for an 1-C to be incapable of killing Tier 2s.
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I don't think YHVH is considered a demon/angel/god in the same way that that Baal(The Deity), Ahriman, or Mastema are. He was not created, formed, or "given shape/power" by human observation. YHVH was a branch off of the Great Will itself. YHVH's voice of God should be able to kill on a different scale than Satan's Insta-Kill move in SMT II, or Merkabah's Hexagram.
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I don't think the capicity to kill Tier 2 beings in a Tier 1 fight is of much importance @Matt
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That was not my point. My point is that the SMT beings are as abstract as the Chaos Gods.
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The strongest demons are eternal beings much like the Chaos gods.
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That's not how the "Godslayer" thingy works on SMT
a "Godslayers" is nothing than a mere title for the human who dare to challenge Gods and Demons. Yup ! that's right, ANY human can become a Godslayer if they have guts to challenge Gods and Demons. Like Lucifer was once said
"Gods and demons cannot kill each other. When both sides are met in the battle field, the best thing we could do is seal each other away. Only human can kill God and Demons, without the humans, the war shall never end"
Like i and Matt mentioned above. Gods and Demon are the natural phenomenoms personified. They cannot kill each other as they are the immortal abstract of the world
The human is a special race in SMT, because they got bestowed the power of Observation by The Axiom . With the power of Observation, human can denies the nature of a Gods and make them no longer immortal and can be slayed. Hell, demonized YHVH is the best example of this. He got affected by the power of Observation of Nanashi's crew and got his nature as "one with the world, the existence emcompass the others" got banned, he became a thing that can be killed.
If the Chaos Gods face again the human of SMT, they would probally meet the same fate as YHVH
a "Godslayers" is nothing than a mere title for the human who dare to challenge Gods and Demons. Yup ! that's right, ANY human can become a Godslayer if they have guts to challenge Gods and Demons. Like Lucifer was once said
"Gods and demons cannot kill each other. When both sides are met in the battle field, the best thing we could do is seal each other away. Only human can kill God and Demons, without the humans, the war shall never end"
Like i and Matt mentioned above. Gods and Demon are the natural phenomenoms personified. They cannot kill each other as they are the immortal abstract of the world
The human is a special race in SMT, because they got bestowed the power of Observation by The Axiom . With the power of Observation, human can denies the nature of a Gods and make them no longer immortal and can be slayed. Hell, demonized YHVH is the best example of this. He got affected by the power of Observation of Nanashi's crew and got his nature as "one with the world, the existence emcompass the others" got banned, he became a thing that can be killed.
If the Chaos Gods face again the human of SMT, they would probally meet the same fate as YHVH
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How can you be so sure they are far stronger than YHVH is?
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YHVH is 9D. Chaos Gods are 12D at their likely "max".Matthew Schroeder said:
Emperor is able to hold back all 4 of them with his will alone.
Even if we ignore the 12D Chaos Gods, Emperor is "at least" 9D, while YHVH is solid 9D.
"Well, In the Apocalypse, it's has been explained that the gods and demons were actually the nature concepts given form by human's observatio. Once a human see a natural phenomenon, he thinks "that must be a work of Gods" then the nature concept that govern the said phenomenon will take form of a god."
This implies that human observation was required to "create" the SMT Gods and Demons.
The Chaos Gods existed before humanity and will exist far after humanity no longer exists.
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Read the OP. They are all lowballed at 1-C.
Humans simultaneously create the gods and the gods are self-created in SMT. They are beyond time altogether. They are eternal beings. It's no different than the Eldar creating Slaanesh.
Humans simultaneously create the gods and the gods are self-created in SMT. They are beyond time altogether. They are eternal beings. It's no different than the Eldar creating Slaanesh.
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They are "At Least" 1-C because they are more likely to be 12D. Not because they have feats that are At least 9D, but not certainly higher. As both parties are standarded and lowballed at 9D, the "At least" doesn't matter.
As such, I say that the Chaos Gods are standard 9D being, while YHVH is vastly stronger than 9Ds, and can one-shot comparable beings by shouting.
As such, I say that the Chaos Gods are standard 9D being, while YHVH is vastly stronger than 9Ds, and can one-shot comparable beings by shouting.
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Technically, going by said quote, every daemon in Tzeentch's realm would be a standard 9-D being.Matthew Schroeder said:
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This is what Voice of God does. It's an unblockable OHK. It one-shots the likes of Nanashi.
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