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YHVH and SMT IV Apocalypse Discussion

Tivanenk

Tivanenk

VS Battles
Retired
1,589
62
I have recently finished SMT IV Apocalypse (through the Massacre Route) and I wanted to open this discussion to discuss the things that are in the games. I wanted to open a Content Revision thread, but I haven't exactly formulated all the feats in the game. Spoilers abound, of course.

So now's the time to do them. I'll start off with YHVH.

First, YHVH's universe contains branes. Each brane is a separate dimensional layer/plane that is more vague and more infinite than the world you've lived in and the ones before it. Branes contain full fledged "illusions" of enemies that you have fought before, and can be recreated as many times as YHVH needs to. YHVH can endlessly create them till infinity.

The space that YHVH's universe resides in is also Non-Euclidean Space.

YHVH is described as the Supreme Being as well as infinity. The universe (which includes all the timelines, separate dimensions, and such) is all a small part of him. If he disappears, so does the universe. He observes the universe from outside of it and has smitten countless gods as false deities.

Now, I'm not sure his true form is stronger than that of his yellow head form. The reason is that even though Dagda says that he's begun to show his true colors, YHVH rages at you for 'reducing him to such a form' and the first part of the battle involved you of stripping him of his divinity.

Also, all of the heads of base YHVH are one YHVH. There's an infinite amount of him because he simply represents infinity. So base YHVH himself needs to be upgraded.

I welcome more questions about YHVH and the game itself.
 
Going by this, the YHVH Aleph fought in SMT 2 would simply be a fraction of it's being, and YHVH would be a straight up High 2-A.
 
Yeah, I would say so. The YHVH Aleph fought is most likely a fragment of himself that was responsible for that one world.
 
so YHVH should be High 2-A in base while final form is like low 1-C via being superior to all of them??
 
They're both High 2-A, but I'd say Massacre Ending Nanashi is stronger since he actually ascended to godhood and isn't a regular human anymore.
 
If YHVH is 5D Shining and Anguished One is probably stronger/would win in a fight due to the 4 prime factor, and immunity to all attacks, including almighty, but if he's 6D Nanashi's probably stronger, and 7D or higher then he's definitely stronger.

Anyways, branes are actually a part of string theory, basically they're the smallest quantum particle of a certain dimension (ex 0D point particles, 1D strings, 2D membranes) so if YHVH can control them that would probably be something like higher dimensional quantum manipulation.

Also, if YHVH's univere's branes are infinitely beyond the time, space, and dimensions of everything we've seen in MegaTen so far, wouldn't that put the branes at 5D (6D if we were to include DeSu 2 in that), and his full universe at 6D (since there would have to be an additional temporal dimension, since his universe includes (all) timelines) (7D if we include DeSu 2) and since he exists outside of said universe, and is infinite compared to it wouldn't that put his golden head form at least at infinite 6D?
 
Well, Aleph and Lucifer probably only fought a fragment of his power, since YHVH here commented that if he is killed, then the Universe will go with him since he's the Creator. Since Aleph didn't cause the destruction of the universe, it probably was only a fragment.
 
The YHVH Aleph fought could have also been an illusion in one of the Branes, since killing the real YHVH would destroy the whole "universe", and that clearly didn't happen.
 
Well since it seems that the Branes are supposed to be infinitely above what we've seen from SMT so far, the events of all of the games should have been occurring in a small part of one of them, so it seems kinda likely that the YHVH Aleph fought was just an illusion from them, or in some other way was drastically weaker to the current real YHVH.

That or this just retconned YHVH's power.
 
I don't think Aleph fought an illusion at all. YHVH mentions that he observes and governs all of his creation, so most likely his power is fragmented among the different universes to observe them.
 
Mostly the same, though he does get a pierce which ignores every and all immunities and resistances and pretty much bypasses durability.
 
Huh, look like i have missed the party :p

Anyway, thank for the info,Tiv ^-^

Since i havent complete the game yet so i cant saymuch about the upgrade. But how many branes does YHVH universe contain ? it does actually sound like Higher Dimensions.

Edit : also, i argree that his Base and second form should be both High 2-A. From YHVH's words, it's seem like the his goldie heads are just a way for him to cover his true nature (A creator that had been rotten to the core)

heh, look like SMT is going to get a bunch of High 2-A from Apocalypse then :3
 
@MagiSinbad There are 4 branes in total before a special higher dimension which Satan warps you to where YHVH's throne room resides in.

And yeah, SMT got a big, big boost from this. Heck, the fact that the polytheistic gods are not bound to the universe already makes them Tier 2.
 
Well, Tier 2 gods have been a thing since Megami Tensei 1, with Loki and Set creating universes.

Besides, Shesha is infinite in size and causes gravitational waves by moving, and Danu is one with the universe.
 
Cant wait for my High 2-A Navarre and Nozomi :3

Besides, Shesha is infinite in size and causes gravitational waves by moving, and Danu is one with the universe.

Shesha is infinite in size ? i havent got very far in the game but Shesha is just big and not causing any gravitation wave.

Also, is there any infor about the great transendence god of the universe that Stephen mentioned about ?
 
Navarre and Nozomi likely won't receive High 2-A... at most, they'll scale to Isabeau and receive 2-A.

Shesha being infinite comes from an entry from a separate game. And yeah, he causes gravitational waves which is how the Shesha Radar tracks him.

The Axiom is pretty much the Great Will.
 
I think Navarre and Nozomi might all be High 2-A, being honest, since they affect YHVH in the Peace Route.

@MagiSinbad

Here :3

http://eirikrjs.blogspot.com.br/2016/08/apocalypse-artbook.html#more

Shioda: This time he talks about the aim of the Great Reason* in the end. Do you think he has met the Great Reason?

  • From Dijeh: Believe it or not, the term used here is NOT the Great Will. The Japanese for Great Will [of the Universe] is either "Õ«çÕ«ÖÒü«ÕñºÒüäÒü¬ÒéïµäÅÕ┐ù" or just "ÕñºÒüäÒü¬ÒéïµäÅÕ┐ù" in previous games in the series, while in SMT4F and this interview, the term is ÕñºÒüäÒü¬ÒéïþÉå; the kanji used are easily distinguishable: µäÅÕ┐ù vs. þÉå. For more about the distinction, see Will and Li.
Yamai: From the perspective of Shin Megami Tensei, the Stephen of Shin Megami Tensei IV is one of the possibilities, but we can say it was possible for him to have met the Great Reason. Of course, from the perspective of Shin Megami Tensei IV's Stephen, I think we can say Shin Megami Tensei is also a possibility.

Miyata: Stephen's position allows him to catch a glimpse of a small part of the Great Reason's movement. When he passed through time and space and made contact with the Great Reason, he interpreted things in his own way.

Yamai: When you reach the battle with VISHNUFLYNN, there is a reference point of the soul, where it either enters or departs from the circle of transmigration. Nanashi is in the middle of that circle, he is a human just like us. That is the reference. Beings like Stephen, Mido, or the Count of Saint Germain left the circle of transmigration and I think that is why they could get in contact with the Great Reason.

Stephen, Mido and Saint Germain are all High 2-A. :3
 
Nah, they are not canonically relevant to the battle at all when it comes to defeating YHVH. It's like saying the Jack Frost in my party is High 2-A because I used him against YHVH. When Nanashi fights before Krishna, he slaughters them with the utmost of ease (if you choose Massacre).
 
They strip YHVH of his divinity because only humans do that, they're not actually that strong.
 
But it would not making any sense if they cant take YHVH's hit. From your logic then that mean they dont even has a chance to deny his blessing after YHVH land his judgement on them. Yeah,i still think that we should scail the team members to YHVH.

It's like saying the Jack Frost in my party is High 2-A because I used him against YHVH.

I was once talk with another user about this issue, me and him had argreed that if the party member are canoncally participated on the fight then they can be scailed from it. Heh, Hiroko's page

@Matthew

Ehhh....Matt. I've already seen that page ^_^ hence, it's the same reason why i brought up the arguement why Stephen, Mido and Saint Germaint should be higher than YHVH
 
PIS. The supporting members are not relevent at all to the battle. And you would have to upgrade Merkabah and Lucifer to High 2-A in that case as well (as they are Walter and Jonathan's power sources), which is pretty nonsensical.

Also, it would completely contradict the Massacre Route where they are so much weaker than Nanashi that they could not do anything but marvel in his strength as he kills them off like flies.
 
Fine =3=

i will argree with you until i got my hand on the full infor of the game.

Anyway, Tiv, can you make a list of High 2-A characters from Apocalypse?
 
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