Yama's Passive Heat Calc

[Arc7Kuroi]

Intro
So, I recalc'd my Yama passive aura calc, based around this discussion. Basically, the reference feat page of vaporizing Earth was more like vaporizing + ripping Earth beyond it's GBE, but with Yama it's more unknown so I just did the vaporizing portion. However, there is a point of conversation I'd like to get into.

Issue
If you click through my calc you'll see where I'm going, but I've found a few calcs accepted on wiki that use the heat equation (Q = M*C*change in T) and if there is a stated heat, they plug in that stated temperature as the final temperature (change in T = T_f - T_i). Basically, I'm curious if it's valid to plug that stated temperature in for T_f, or if you have to cap the T_f at the minimum temperature required to vaporize whatever substance. For example, let's say I vaporize water using 1000 degree C heat, is it valid to calc the heat change with the final temperature being 1000 degrees, or would I have to cap the final temperature at 100 degrees?

Conclusion
This thread is to A) re-evaluate the calc after I made the changes post-discussion with DT and B) comment on the heat equation and which temperature is valid to use.

 

[Deceived3596]

You forgot to add the OPM calcs.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

What OPM calcs?

 

[SeijiSetto]

For example, let's say I vaporize water using 1000 degree C heat, is it valid to calc the heat change with the final temperature being 1000 degrees, or would I have to cap the final temperature at 100 degrees?

total energy = energy required to heat up water (change in temperature from [whatever it was at] to boiling point) + energy required to change phase (latent heat of vaporization) + energy required to heat up steam (change in temperature from 100 C to 1000 C in this example, use specific heat capacity of steam)

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Yeah I’m aware of the energy to change something’s phase and whatnot. That’s not pertinent to my question in the OP rn

 

[SeijiSetto]

Yeah I’m aware of the energy to change something’s phase and whatnot. That’s not pertinent to my question in the OP rn

oh ya my bad i focused on the wrong part.

for what it's worth (not shit tbf) i think if there's a given, stated temperature, you should be able to add that on top of the energy required for JUST vaporization instead of capping it at the thing's boiling point.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

yeah idk how valid that is but we shall see

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Following so Arc won’t tag me anymore

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Following so Arc won’t tag me anymore

@DemonGodMitchAubin

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@DemonGodMitchAubin

That’s it, I disagree with the calc

Yamamoto should be downgraded to Arrow Level

 

[Stryker861]

Imo Ig it would make more sense not capping it sense it wouldn't be capturing the full feat if you did. If that answers the question

 

[DontTalkDT]

For example, let's say I vaporize water using 1000 degree C heat, is it valid to calc the heat change with the final temperature being 1000 degrees, or would I have to cap the final temperature at 100 degrees?

If you boil water on the stove, the water never gets as hot as the flame of the stove.

So no, you can't assume soul society is heated to the temperature of the flame Yamamoto uses to accomplish that.

(Provided we assume soul society is vaporized, which IIRC is not stated)

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

If you boil water on the stove, the water never gets as hot as the flame of the stove.

So no, you can't assume soul society is heated to the temperature of the flame Yamamoto uses to accomplish that.

(Provided we assume soul society is vaporized, which IIRC is not stated)

Could you use the rate of heat transfer to get the estimated temperature then?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

If you boil water on the stove, the water never gets as hot as the flame of the stove.

So no, you can't assume soul society is heated to the temperature of the flame Yamamoto uses to accomplish that.

(Provided we assume soul society is vaporized, which IIRC is not stated)

So would calcs that go beyond the temp required to vaporize sumn need to be downgraded?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I missed the last part of DT’s comment cuz vsbw mobile ads cover half the fvcking screen. But we don’t need to be spoonfed a direct statement to deduce Yama would vap the planet overtime. 1) it’s stated that he’d destroy the ENTIRE planet over time, 2) his power is heat based working off 15 million degrees C (more than hot enough vaporize), and 3) the value it produces (710 Petatons per second) is very consistent with where he scales already (thus the burden of proof would be lessened as its consistent). “But we don’t have an explicit statement tho” is not a defeater to the argument presented by the calc.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Following so Arc won’t tag me anymore

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

What Donttalk says is true for normal methods of heat transfer however I believe that should only apply for normal methods

In the stove argument the object heating the water to it's boiling point is in direct contact with the water

So when the water vaporizes and is no longer in contact with the stove heat transfer stops

In that case the water vapor escapes and is not heated to 1000 C

However most fire or heat based abilities in fiction don't use normal methods of heat transfer, they operate on AOE style heating for lack of a better explanation

And most of the time the heating is done so rapidly that it would be impossible for whatever heated material to disperse out of It's AOE in time to avoid being heated to the full temperature of whatever said attack is (Avatar's firebenders are a good example of this)

So in a general sense I would say if an object is heated via some special attack that affects the entirety of the object and said objects demonstrates and extremely fast rate of heat transfer (Instantly turning air to fire or turning metal to slag in an instant) it would be fine to assume that the object's matter reached whatever stated temperature X characters attack is stated to be

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Well this isn’t exactly super quick, so I don’t think what you said applies here tho

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Then it probably wouldn't apply here

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

However the quote your working with implies that the heat aura will expand to the point that it overs the whole (planet?)

If that's the case then an argument could be made that since this would cover the whole planet the matter wouldn't have anywhere to escape to and thus would be heated (Eventually) to the full 15 million degrees

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

However the quote your working with implies that the heat aura will expand to the point that it overs the whole (planet?)

If that's the case then an argument could be made that since this would cover the whole planet the matter wouldn't have anywhere to escape to and thus would be heated (Eventually) to the full 15 million degrees

Ehhhhh seems hyper speculative, I don’t know if I agree that like Yama is encasing the planet such that no heat can escape as you describe it.

 

[KingTempest]

Bro I'm not gonna lie
It took like 5 minutes in the fight and he didn't even phase the ground
You should try calcing him melting the earth instead of... vaporizing it

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Bro I'm not gonna lie
It took like 5 minutes in the fight and he didn't even phase the ground
You should try calcing him melting the earth instead of... vaporizing it

Well tbf his 15 million deg C don’t exactly act hyper realistic cuz there’s no nuclear style explosion occurring instantly. So I’d advise against using visual affects as a debunk, you’d be appealing to reality at that point. Cant really expect the layperson author to know what sun level temperature would look like interacting with the environment.

 

[KingTempest]

Well tbf his 15 million deg C don’t exactly act hyper realistic cuz there’s no nuclear style explosion occurring instantly. So I’d advise against using visual affects as a debunk, you’d be appealing to reality at that point. Cant really expect the layperson author to know what sun level temperature would look like interacting with the environment.

Yeah but with that logic as well... that temperature taking a decent amount of time to vap water and crack the ground makes me think that "vap the planet" ain't gonna happen
Like will it be destroyed? Probably.
Will it be turned to ******* smoke? I doubt.
Should probably just be melting as a mid end, cause even the temp to vape water is a far cry from melting stone

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Yeah but with that logic as well... that temperature taking a decent amount of time to vap water and crack the ground makes me think that "vap the planet" ain't gonna happen
Like will it be destroyed? Probably.
Will it be turned to ***** smoke? I doubt.
Should probably just be melting as a mid end, cause even the temp to vape water is a far cry from melting stone

Keep in mind these are characters moving at sub relativistic speeds, so a handful of minutes of cinematic timing is not indicative of the in universe time passage.

 

[KingTempest]

Keep in mind these are characters moving at sub relativistic speeds, so a handful of minutes of cinematic timing is not indicative of the in universe time passage.

Keep in mind bro's clothes are as hot as the sun and couldn't melt the ground right below him

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Keep in mind bro's clothes are as hot as the sun and couldn't melt the ground right below him

hence my original response to you, Kubster doesn’t exactly accurately portray the effects, cuz bro isn’t a physicist

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Keep in mind bro's clothes are as hot as the sun and couldn't melt the ground right below him

pretty sure the ground below him was shown melting

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Yeah, the ground was melting after a while, and wasn't Yama like, specifically holding back as to not just have the Soul Society be destroyed? Idk it's been a while since I watched Cour 1

 

[KingTempest]

So... use melting?

 

[Damage3245]

The Bankai's ambient heat is a bit strange because on one hand he is evaporating water in the vicinity and he would have cremated fake Yhwach had he not been using Blut Vene to defend himself... but there's also no other sign of his heat passively wrecking his surroundings that would indicate he would have vaporized the entire planet in a few hours.

I'm not sure what to think about this.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Are we forgetting the fact that the “entire planet” is simply our assumption and no evidence has been shown?

Yama's Bankai is stated to be capable of destroying the entire Soul Society over the span of several hours. So, I will calculate destroying a planet (lowballing Soul Society to be just an Earth) over the span of several hours (3 to 4 hours). Based on this conversation, and the fact Yamamoto is doing this with pure heat, I won't include the Earth's GBE.

While the statement itself never states this.

Like, the entire picture that I observe here is most likely continental-surface.

but there's also no other sign of his heat passively wrecking his surroundings that would indicate he would have vaporized the entire planet in a few hours.

I'm not sure what to think about this.

I don't think the statement is contradictory (since it has been hinted multiple times), I just don't believe it is on a planetary level because it has never been addressed like that. It has been constantly addressed as a world for Shinigami to live. When they present it in anime, it mostly looks like a big city, perhaps it can be extended to big/megacities.

This is how I imagine it:

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Are we forgetting the fact that the “entire planet” is simply our assumption and no evidence has been shown?

While the statement itself never states this.

Like, the entire picture that I observe here is most likely continental-surface.

I don't think the statement is contradictory (since it has been hinted multiple times), I just don't believe it is on a planetary level because it has never been addressed like that. It has been constantly addressed as a world for Shinigami to live. When they present it in anime, it mostly looks like a big city, perhaps it can be extended to big/megacities.

This is how I imagine it:

Dread… it says verbatim in the Imgur link “destroy Soul Society entirely” we are just blatantly told it’s going to destroy the entire planet.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

The Bankai's ambient heat is a bit strange because on one hand he is evaporating water in the vicinity and he would have cremated fake Yhwach had he not been using Blut Vene to defend himself... but there's also no other sign of his heat passively wrecking his surroundings that would indicate he would have vaporized the entire planet in a few hours.

I'm not sure what to think about this.

Again, it’s a bit disingenuous to assume that Kubo would understand the physics of heat transfer and how exactly 15 million deg C heat would interact with the environment. However, we do know that Yama is stated repeatedly to be capable of destroying the Soul Society over time, and it’s specified to be the entire Soul Society.

I guess we can explore more avenues of destruction other than via heat, as in perhaps destroying it over the span of 3-4 hours with his direct attacks, etc etc. But fact of the matter is the entire planet was gonna be destroyed as per what was stated.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Dread… it says verbatim in the Imgur link “destroy Soul Society entirely” we are just blatantly told it’s going to destroy the entire planet.

For example:
“I destroy US entirely” ≠ “I destroy the entire planet”. (For US citizens, I don't tend to offend anyone, I am using it entirely for comparison)

You can see your own principle does not work here. There is not a single statement where Soul Society is referred as planet, visually and contextually. For a more robust argument, it would be beneficial to provide instances from the source material where “Soul Society” is explicitly mentioned as a planetary entity or visualized as one. Because simply depending solely on the assumption that “Soul Society” refers to an entire planet lacks a solid basis, and thus is implausible to my taste.

Also, I don't even think “destroy” meant in this context to be literal destruction (annihilation), given the fact, he later on said he will turn everything into ashes. The possibility exists, sure, but given the scene and its development, there were no physical destruction to begin with, in those minutes of the fight. It can be metaphorical, to signify a significant alteration rather than outright obliteration.

My stance:
In light of the points raised, it's prudent to reconsider the assumption that “Soul Society” equates to an entire planet, as it seems to lack adequate contextual support. Furthermore, the context in which “destroy” is used might encompass a broader range of interpretations beyond outright physical destruction.

As for time assumption:
Of course, you're free to consider the term "a few hours" as either approximately 2-3 hours (upper estimate) or 4-5 hours (lower estimate). However, for the “soul society” statement itself, we shouldn't automatically assume it implies complete physical devastation and widespread chaos, as there's no factual basis for such an interpretation.

But fact of the matter is the entire planet was gonna be destroyed as per what was stated.

Would you like to prove this piece of evidence here? Since your claim is that there is a statement from canonicity that soul society is an entire planet.

 

[Deagonx]

I share that sentiment. If the only basis for the planet scaling is "destroy the soul society entirely" then we don't have proper evidence, as the soul society is predominantly portrayed as a city, not an astral body. The word "entirely" does not change that. I also share Damage and KT's concerns about the visuals, I dont consider it disingenuous or fallacious at all to recognize that the effect the character is having on the environment is extremely limited.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

For example:
“I destroy US entirely” ≠ “I destroy the entire planet”. (For US citizens, I don't tend to offend anyone, I am using it entirely for comparison)

You can see your own principle does not work here. There is not a single statement where Soul Society is referred as planet, visually and contextually. For a more robust argument, it would be beneficial to provide instances from the source material where “Soul Society” is explicitly mentioned as a planetary entity or visualized as one. Because simply depending solely on the assumption that “Soul Society” refers to an entire planet lacks a solid basis, and thus is implausible to my taste.

Also, I don't even think “destroy” meant in this context to be literal destruction (annihilation), given the fact, he later on said he will turn everything into ashes. The possibility exists, sure, but given the scene and its development, there were no physical destruction to begin with, in those minutes of the fight. It can be metaphorical, to signify a significant alteration rather than outright obliteration.

My stance:
In light of the points raised, it's prudent to reconsider the assumption that “Soul Society” equates to an entire planet, as it seems to lack adequate contextual support. Furthermore, the context in which “destroy” is used might encompass a broader range of interpretations beyond outright physical destruction.

As for time assumption:
Of course, you're free to consider the term "a few hours" as either approximately 2-3 hours (upper estimate) or 4-5 hours (lower estimate). However, for the “soul society” statement itself, we shouldn't automatically assume it implies complete physical devastation and widespread chaos, as there's no factual basis for such an interpretation.

You’re basing your claim on a false equivalence. The Soul Society is not a country, it’s the planet. The Seireitei is not Soul Society, it is in Soul Society. Similarly the US is not Earth it is in Earth.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I share that sentiment. If the only basis for the planet scaling is "destroy the soul society entirely" then we don't have proper evidence, as the soul society is predominantly portrayed as a city, not an astral body. The word "entirely" does not change that. I also share Damage and KT's concerns about the visuals, I dont consider it disingenuous or fallacious at all to recognize that the effect the character is having on the environment is extremely limited.

Soul Society is not a city… that’s Seireitei

 

[Kachon123]

then we don't have proper evidence, as the soul society is predominantly portrayed as a city, not an astral body.

Seireitei is the city Deagon. What are you talking about

 

[ImmortalDread]

You’re basing your claim on a false equivalence. The Soul Society is not a country, it’s the planet. The Seireitei is not Soul Society, it is in Soul Society. Similarly the US is not Earth it is in Earth.

No, I am simply disproving how “entirety” that you are using as argument means almost nothing.

Again, prove that soul society is a planet.