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Xenoblade Chronicles 2 spoilers, massive upgrades for Rex and Pyra

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Another reply from my friend here:

"Uhh what?


You don't use Xenoblade's wiki pages to prove your point (I talking to the OP here). No offense, but the cloud sea is a literal mass formation of clouds so I doubt your claims of it being low 2C is true as well as the fact the term world is used indicates it is the planet itself, not the universe itself, man.


You don't use other wiki as a accurate source of information, DarkDragon, as I starting to doubt the upgrades for Xenoblade Chronicles 2 now."

This not gonna end well....>_>
 
The discussion about the first Xenoblade was already here; it was concluded that Xenoblade Chronicles 1's cosmology was indeed infinite in size. not only that, but there was a legitimate timeline in it as well. So Shulk, Zanza, and Alvis (Who should be 2-C soon) Are legit Low 2-C but that's off topic.

Anyway, I'm still hearing yet another Strawman argument. I mean no offence, but still. Anyway, it wasn't the wiki exclusively. There are clearly statements all throughout the game that clearly state both the Cloud Sea and the Great Void being "Endless Voids". I will dig for specific moments eventually, but I'm still in the middle of digging for it at the moment. And yes, the Cloud Sea manipulation alone would only be High 3-A, and the same thing can be said for the Great Void, but still, Alrest does still have time that progresses; meaning it is a Space-Time Continuum.

Still, the last 3 chapters take place inside the World Tree, that is a fact. And The World Tree is full of "Memories" so all sorts of visions, including the one where Alrest appears to be a planet with a surface, is just an illusion. And the peak of the World Tree is Elysium, which is now in ruins. Also, World is a very vague statement; it can mean country, planet, universe, multiverse, Hyperverse, or even Outerverse. But in this case, it means universe. Why would a world where "Traveling at the speed of light for 100 years and seeing nothing but Endless seas and skies" (Direct quote in Fiora's heart to heart with Riki) is an understatement be considered only planet? Still, Alrest is still also said to have no surface. It's mentioned not just Xenoblade wiki, not just Wikipedia, not just the Xenoblade 2 guidebooks or the reviews, but multiple times throughout the game. Additionally, the link shown that showed a "Planet" never actually disproved anything. We only saw that it didn't look infinite on the Z-Axis; it could still be occupying infinitely on the X and Y axises. Infinity / 3 is still infinity; and Infinity * 3 is also still Infinity.

Anyway, even if we ignored Xenoblade 2's cosmology completely, we still got Zanza/Klaus/The Architect to back up everything. Xenoblade 2's universe is directly parallel to the first one; so it should be the same size. Additionally, Pneuma still scales to Artifice Aion, who in turn scales to the Architect. The Architect actually fought Artifice Aion long ago and were evenly matched. Not to mention Artifice Ophion was the one who created The Great Void; aka High 3-A feat. And if Pneuma is comparable to Aion, who is comparable to Architect who is identical to Zanza, then they're Low 2-C however you look at it.
 
Another reply from my friend here:

"Comparing the first Xenoblade game to the second one seems a bit suspicious especially since they are not even connected to one another officially and thus could be head canon.

In addition, where are the statements about it and the Great Void being a endless void?

That is a very bold claim given how the background in the Cloud Sea has literally clouds in the background.

Seriously you need to make sure you don't take things out of context as it is certainly questionable at the very least. I prefer other people's input as well."
 
It's not headcanon; it is 100% Primary canon. Both universes were created by the exact same event and were branched from the same original universe. Additionally, Architect and Zanza are two halves of the same person, with the same powers and abilities; that cannot be ignored.

By the way, it's stated in this video that Aion does have the power to destroy the Architect and all existence. I'm a little lost at the moment, but it's in one of the chapters where it describes the Great Void that way.

I fail to understand how that's a counter argument. When you swim in water, there is water in the background yes; same thing happens when you swim in clouds, but how is this relevant? Anyway, inside the Great Void, the background is always changing; sometimes you see a Warp speed indicator, other times, you see many stars. Once Again, the Great Void is full of illusions. Anyway, above the Cloud Sea, is more clouds yes, but also many stars, and the skies are also endless in size of the Cloud Sea is endless.

In the video I linked, we initially see some clouds clearing out to have open space, and we see an infinite amount of flat ruins, prior to Pneuma warping reality to turn the Cloud Sea into Oceans.

I have more to debate, but I need to go to sleep ATM.
 
They are parallel timelines because, as seen in this video Alvis splits Klaus in half, BFRs them to different universes; both of which are created by Alvis. And each individual half is given "Power to control their own respective universes" by Alvis, and they both have, or at least Zanza has, consistently destroyed his own universe and recreated it in his own image. Both haves are still confirmed to be equally powerful; meaning Low 2-C is legit.

Also, those videos; the second one has a broken link; all it says is 404 Error, and the first one is very early game. There's Clouds in the Background, yes, but Clouds don't always have a consistent shape; Yes, there are Clouds above the Continents, but also an infinite amount of Clouds below them as well. Still, the inside of the Great Void and more specifically as they climb the World Tree; which is where pretty much the entire last 3 chapters take place, there are illusions all over the place. At the very beginning of the video they see the old Elysium yet again; again a "Memory." And a few minutes later, the background starts to look far more awkward; as if there's something strange and unusual going on.
 
The video is called the birth of a universe, not to mention the same scene was seen in Xenoblade 1, do I really have to go back to explaining Alvis again? Alvis is the computer that caused the universal Big Bang in both scenes; and becomes the True Monado in Xenoblade 1. Klaus was already split in half and now exists in two separate "Dimensions"/Universes."

"The Architect even says planet in front of Rex and his crew later on" Planet as in Elysium, because they reached the ruins of Elysium. Anyway, he also said Endless universes coexist all parallel to one another. He also mentioned that the only thing that remained in the universe when he activated the computer were Morytha ruins and half of his body. And then he recreated the universe. Anyway, Zanza still frequently reality warped his own universe, where Architect recreated the original universe. They are equal and parallel in size; so if Xenoblade 1's universe is infinite in size, both universes are infinite in size. Architect recreated life; also, infinite sized planets are a thing actually. The Cloud Sea still appears flat as he spreading the Core Crystals all over the Cloud Sea. Elysium was where everyone once lived, but it's only a tiny spec on top the World Tree and once resembled Alrest with the Cloud Sea and Titans and all, but there was an exploration down below to the rest of Alrest, which has never been disproven to be an infinite sized universe.

Not to mention, Architect still scales to Zanza, which has never been debunked. So Alvis should get a 2-C upgrade, Architect is legit Low 2-C, awareness to other universe should be an added ability, possibly Low Multiversal range due to existing in two parallel universes, added weakness for Zanza, that if one half dies, the other half dies as well. And Pneuma, Rex, and still iffy on Jin, get upgraded to Low 2-C scaling from Artifice Aion, who is powerful enough to destroy the Architect.

Also, @Vel does your friend have an account on the site? Because it's probably preferable if he comes here to debate and/or ask personally.
 
I'm still very much against this (at least Universal XC2, I am for 2-C Alvis). But I have a feeling its going to g through regardless of what I say....
 
Already check that,only DDM and Numbersguy who listed there and they already give input here,now we need to waiting for a more staff to agree with this revision.
 
Well, you can also check the people listed under supporters and neutral in the Xenoblade verse page.
 
Well, I suppose that this seems to make sense, but I am not very familiar with the franchise.
 
Well, we need more input in any case.
 
while DDM did have many people are agree with him, that was before numerous flaws mentioned. Since I starting mentioning with the upgrades, only one person has agreed with him. Also, I think we should go ahead and upgrade Alvis to 2-C as everyone has agreed on that upgrade.
 
There is no Headcanon, and it is not polite to blindly accuse of things; especially when I add multiple explanations and even provided back up evidence suggesting it. BowserRulesAll also said he agreed, and when he seemed dubious later on, he said shortly after that that he retracted his previous statement; meaning he agrees with me again. Additionally, they are still, inside the Great Void, which is described as an endless void surrounding the World Tree. Additionally, even if that one video you showed has them gazing upon Alrest, it still looks completely flat with no edges. You see starry skies, but that doesn't prove Alrest being a planet rather than a flat ocean that stretches endlessly on the X and Y axises; which is Xenoblade 1's geography.

Additionally, I provided other reasons. Mainly the lore of The Architect/Zanza/Klaus. When Architect says the world "This Planet" he's referring to the the Earth existed in the original universe; not Alrest. And it was Elysium was originally just a planet that once had a Cloud Sea similar to the rest of Alrest. And all the millions of Continent sized Titans once lived in Elysium, which gives you an idea of how large it is.

Additionally, it is a thing in Mythology that "Planet" actually refers to an infinite amount of flat oceans and skies; which takes up the entire universe. So any context that may mistakenly interpret Alrest is referencing that analogy. But there's very few context where people actually call Alrest a "Planet" aside from some mixed understandings between it and Elysium.

Now back to the Architect, that is the primary highlight of this thread. And I linked the video above for Xenoblade 1. When Klaus activated the computer awakening Alvis; it seems as if the planet Earth was warped, then from the Earth, it exploded into a Universal Big Bang that destroyed the universe and then a new one was created. Klaus, who later became Zanza lived on with Meyneth, and they became the Universal Reality Warping Gods of the universe.

But then in this video and futher explained in the video of them meeting the Architect, the old Universe wasn't completely destroyed; but was still mostly destroyed, and only Half of Klaus was actually teleported to the new universe alongside Meyneth. So basically, Alvis's Big Bang basically split one universe into two parallel universes. And Each Universe had a half of Klaus becoming as the universal God. The Architect, which is the other half of Xenoblade 2, still tanked the destruction of the original universe, and where only the Morytha and the Architect half of Klaus remained.

This is a legit Low 2-C durability feat from a character who should be identical to Zanza in powers and abilities. Not to mention the Architect recreated the old universe using Quantum manipulation to create the Cloud Sea, which would very consistently throughout the game be described as "Endless" very much for the same reason the Ocean in Xenoblade 1 is. IIRC, there was a another Heart to Heart conversation where someone stated "Traveling at the speed of light for a hundred years and not even being close to finding the edge of the Cloud Sea;" which is identical to a one spoken by the Quiet Time Heart to Heart in Xenoblade 1 Not to mention every star in the universe was also destroyed and recreated by the Architect.

Lastly, in this video it is clearly mentioned above that Artifice Aion, does possess enough power to destroy the Architect. Killing a character with Universe level+ durability is a Low 2-C Attack Potency feat. And the same video describes it as being able to destroy "all existence". The Architect created Aion to be a last resort in destroying the Architect, as the Architect willingly says he wants his demise to happen as seen in above video linked in a different paragraph. Luckily, Shulk kills Zanza before that is needed and The Architect passes on all of his power to Pneuma; the fusion of Pyra and Mythra and Rex's Blade. That is how they were able to save/restore the universe fully after defeating Aion.

In Conclusion, The Architect, Pyra/Mythra when fused together to make Pneuma, Rex while Pneuma is around, And Artifice Aion are legit Low 2-C scaling from Zanza and from their own feats and lore back ups however we look at it. Alvis is also 2-C via created two universes from a separate big bang. Zanza/Klaus could potentially have Low Multiversal range due to existing in two parallel universes, but should also be given a weakness so that if one half dies, the other half goes with him. I'm starting to doubt that Jin is Low 2-C, because he dies before they confront Aion, which Pneuma may be much stronger now then she was when they fought Jin. But Jin would still be by far the strongest non Tier 2 character in Xenoblade 2.

I'll need to leave for work in 30 minutes from now, but will be able to respond in 9 hours from now, roughly.
 
@Chartate101: I intend to make a page for him.

@Veloxt1r0kore: KOS-MOS is a character from Xenosaga; and a friend of mine is looking into the series at the moment, so that would have to wait.

@All: If it isn't too much of a bother, could someone do me (and by extention, OishiLover75) a favor, and make a page for Tora, i'd appreciate it.

My apologies for somewhat derailing the thread.
 
That's understandable Antvasima. I can take care of things here, and I heard Matt said he will comment when he has time.
 
New poster here. After having to jump through hoops to defend Rex & Pyra (Rex won by the way) against a composite DQ Slime (who somehow beat KH's Sora) in a topic on GameFAQs I wound up bumping into the VS battles site and got curious about how Rex & co would be rated here.
I am a bit disappointed in the posters for rating so many things way too high or outright misrepresenting/misinterpreting things here.

First thing first Medeus (don't make me stab you with the Falchion), the only illusions on the First Low Orbit Station were the string of battles against the dream versions of your party members starting with Nia and ending with the dinner scene with Pyra and Mythra.
In other words Alrest is an endless Cloud Sea on a very finite sphere the size of Earth, so don't go around using some random line to inflate the stats as much as possible.
Remember, if you inflate one stat you wind up inflating all of them, and then the whole Internet has to deal with the fallout of that in vs debates.

Yes Alrest is a post apocalyptic Earth (it took 7 games, but we finally managed to avoid completely destroying the Earth), as if the Solar System romp in the first game and the US roadsigns didn't clue you in (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI7PRXmlL24).

Second, they are not parallel timelines, but completely different universes, with the universe of the first game coming into being thanks to events that occurred in the universe of the second game.

Third, the Low Orbit Station is above the World Tree, which in turn is in the middle of the Great Void. I also have to remind you that with Ophion gone the Great Void closes up rapidly and you can't see it by the time you go outside again on the World Tree.

Fourth, the Architect does not either create the universe (outside of the XB1 one) or recreate the universe but breaks it instead. Why do you think he tried to atone by fixing it?
BTW, the Architect only tried to fix the Earth. It is entirely possible that the only things negatively affected by the experiment were the Earth itself due to being inside the orbital ring, since the sun, moon, and the rest of the night sky appeared to be unaffected.
The experiment strikes me as being a very low 2-C thanks to creating one universe and screwing up a planet.

Fifth, there aren't thousands of continent sized Titans on Alrest (how would you even fit that on Earth). There are only 7 major ones left alive at the start of the game (Gormott, Uraya, Mor Ardain, Elpys, Indol, Temperantia, and Genbu) and one of those is near death, another is sunk during the course of the game, and two more are uninhabitable, which only leaves 3 large viable ones.
Then you have the middle sized ones that the Ardainians use for battleships and the Nopon use for their Trade Guild ships, which is probably only a couple dozen at best.
Finally you have the small ones like the jellyfish ones in Lefthria.
How did you miss the tensions between Mor Ardain and Uraya over the rapidly diminishing living space? The entire point of the party going to Elysium is to find more living space for Alrest's inhabitants.

The strongest thing in the setting is the Conduit, which is comparable to the Zohar from the Xenogears and Xenosaga series. I would say it is at least 2-C proper at minimum as it is what gives the experiment and the Aegis's (Pneuma, Malos, and presumably Alvis) their unlimited reality warping power.

One of the biggest things that irks me here is that every character here has Continent (6-A) level stats.
That is simply wrong.
Just because the people of Alrest call the great Titans continents doesn't put them on the same level as North America, Asia, or even Australia. The old Tornan titan fits easily in the Land of Morytha, which is a medium sized city at best.
I can see the Titans being Mountain (7-A) or small Island (6-C) level instead, as that is a much better approximation of their size and power.
Another issue here is the three Titans were sunk during the Aegis War when both Malos and Mythra were going all out against one another, and the details from that era are pretty thin. All we know is that Malos was causing massive damage with building sized "destruction orbs" and Mythra was making liberal use of Siren's Particle Beam Cannon, which can't be good for a titan's health. To make matters worse one of the three Titans that was sunk, Torna, was actually destroyed by Amalthus and Indol.
Malos should only have 7-B strength (Monado Eater affects a small area but seems to ignore durability, which is the real dangerous aspect here) when he is uninjured (Aegis War/chapter 7 onward), and Pythra should only get her 7-C strength when using Siren.
The rest of the cast shouldn't fall below Small Building (9-A) level due to being able to contend with things like tyrannosaurs, Titan tanks (complete with machine guns and cannons), and Cloud Sea King Ken and his lesser brethren (giant squid which are the largest common enemies in the game).

Malos's strength can really vary, and in my opinion it goes like this: Independence War with his Driver (wiped out an entire battle line of Urayan battleships with ease)>Aegis War/chapter 7+ (not quite as strong as before when he had his driver)>>>Chapters 1 through 3 when he had Sever to support him (He couldn't manifest his own weapon and was effectively crippled)>>end of chapter 3 through the first half of 7 (He doesn't even have a weapon at this time)

Aion may be able to destroy Alrest, but it isn't specified how it would go about doing that. He could blow it to smithereens or just wipe out all civilization on Alrest which could range from Island level on the low end (6-C) to Planet level on the high end (5-B). Pnuema does use Aion to "destroy" the world tree, but the New Game+ screen shows the bottom part of the World Tree still standing in a manner similar to the leaning Tower of Pisa. Based on that I would say Aion is on the lower end of that spectrum.
Aion isn't the "Endbringer", Malos calls himself that, and only once if I recall at the end of chapter 7.

Speed wise there are only three notable characters here. Jin, who can incapacitate 8 party members in a instant (you can only see his sword strokes and still can't see the other party members move) when he is going at top speed in his super form, Pneuma who can use reality warping to boost her own speed high enough to match Jin, and Zeke, who can knock 6 party members into the air while still being perceptible to the eye.
The thing about Jin to know is that he doesn't move at top speed constantly because the stress could kill him, and can move at Zeke's speed too without much difficulty in his normal form.

Siren's Particle Beam doesn't move at light speed, but it's targeting ray does, and it can vaporize a person if it is focused enough.

Pyra (and all other Blades) has limited resistance to mind related attacks, as Mythra was fearful that Amalthus would turn her and the other Blades against the party if nothing was done soon to stop his mental compulsion.
Malos did mindrape Pyra hard enough to render her comatose, so Malos really did wipe away her memories. The only reason this failed is because she stores her memories in her core crystal and the other half of it was safe with Rex, so she basically had a backup to use.

Wiping out her memories might not be as effective as you think, namely because all Blades are born as fully functioning adults complete with combat skills, and I don't think instincts like that can be easily deleted.

Zanza can only affect things within his own universe, and he still need Alvis's help to actually pull off the strongest ones (just like Shulk).

You should really finish the game before making interpretations on feats so that you could know the full context of everything.

Did anyone here hear of the story DLC datamine? It looks like we will get a much needed fleshing out of the Aegis War, which it turn should give you more feats to work with concerning Mythra, Malos, Haze, etc.

I probably missed a few things, but I have played this game and the original multiple times, so don't be afraid to ask for any clarifications or my view on anything related to the game.

P.S. Loptyr is a more successful Fire Emblem villain.
 
1. The Low Orbit Station is still located below Elysium; which Elysium is at the very summit of the World Tree. Because the summon of the World Tree is where the final battle takes place. There is no proof about Alreast being a sphere. The Cloud Sea looks completely flat on the scene where they're on the Orbit Station. We and we don't see any edges on the Cloud Sea. The original Earth completely exploded as seen in this video. And same explosion expands upon time and space, so there's no proof of Alrest being a normal planet. Also, that video is just a fan theory; not really a reliable source. Additionally, if a 100 lightyear radius is a lowball, it's still proof about it being way more massive than "just a planet."

2. It is a parallel universe. If a big bang that covered the original universe also created an entirely new universe that, and split Klaus into two separate entities, and transformed at least one of them into the god of one universe, why would the other universe not be parallel? That's just an absurd nit pick. Besides, even if you stare directly at the sun, day to night transition still happens the same way in Xenoblade 1.

3. The Great Void is a bottomless pit; literally. Yes, the Great Tree is in the middle of the Great Void, but we don't really now how deep the roots go. Also, it never existed in the original universe, meaning The Architect would have been the one who created it. Additionally, why the height isn't quite endless on one direction, it's still massive.

4. 6 days of creation logic. Additionally, the Architect is still clearly identical to Zanza in power. They both rose from the same even, originated from the same entity, tanked the same Big Bang that created the new universe that came from "The Old Planet" exploding. Too assume it's only planetary on the original universe scale despite it clearly creating a new universe entirely is absurd. The Conduit definitely is effecting two universes simultaneously. The Bravely Default characters are Multiversal for the same reason; and someone else tried to downgrade them to Moon level for the very same logic; which was rejected. Those were still Multiversal, so Xenoblade is still Universal, or Low Multiversal in Alvis's case.

5. There were thousands if not millions of Continents long ago. Literally every single blade, which is populated as an entire species, can eventually grow into a Titan. And even then, the 7 continents to actually explore are nowhere near close to being the size of Alrest. Heck, they all share the same time zone. Not to mention the Sun is still featured the same way I mentioned.

Actually, the entire point is that the end of time is near. The Cloud Sea is fading, but it's still a bottomless pit. Besides, Elysium is still huge for a tree top, which is in turn small compared to the World Tree's height. So if Elysium is large enough to contain multiple continents, and again a whole line of each world being smaller than the last, then that gives you an idea of how large it is.

Titan's are Continents, while exact size is unknown. Assuming they aren;t the size of real Continents is limitations due to game mechanics. We don't consider the galaxies in Mario galaxy smaller than real galaxies, or the castle in Super Mario World smaller than a real castle, or the Towns in Dragon Quest consisting of 4 houses smaller than people for the very same reasons. Additionally, why don't we downgrade Comic Book characters like Silver Age Superman just because the solar system he sneezed away consisted of planets that didn't look that much bigger than Superman? Or why don't we consider Sonic's top running speed only 10 m/s? Pixel/Frame scalings aren't 100% accurate and the absolute worst reasons to lowball video game characters. Especially JRPG and Platformer characters.

Sinking 3 Continents is a legit Continent level feat at bare minimum; Multi-Continent level is a possibility. Also, Destructive Capacity =/= Attack Potency, so the low end feats are irrelevant. We aren't downgrading Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, Kingdom Hearts, Dragon Quest, Phantasy Star, ect just because of that. Pyra and Malos did that feat extremely casually, it was simply shock wave of the clashing that did that. In fact, destroying/one-shotting 3 living continents should be treated as even more impressive that destroying 3 regular Continents if anything.

As for Siren's particle Beam being Light speed; it does have some scientific properties of light, and the only thing to argue against it being light speed is cinematic time frame, which is again not always accurate. We don't say Matrix bullets are slower than real bullets, we don't downgrade Marvel and DC animation and movie characters do to being trackable by the human's eye. So the stats for Mid Tiers are fine.

Neutral on the mind manipulation/memory manipulation part, but it's better to ask Numbersguy about it.

Xenogears/Xenosaga as mentioned above is a different continuity, so that's off topic. Alvis is the Conduit. So he's legit 2-C due to reality warping the two universes and giving Zanza/Architect their equal affecting their own universal powers. And Zanza have Low Multiversal range will just apply to telepathy/awareness; it's won't be for combat obviously. However, both halves are legit Low 2-C, and they scale to Shulk, Pneuma, and Atifice Aion. Speed should likely be FTL+ scaling from Shulk's feat now that I think about it. Jin is somewhere in between, he's easily much faster than the main cast, and likely comparable to the top tiers in terms of speed, but I'm not 100% certain on tier.

Lastly, Aion is legit designed to be able to kill the Architect just in case Shulk ultimately fails to kill Zanza first. And I already explained why Architect has Universe level+ durability. Still, it doesn't matter how Pneuma saves the universe, but she still reality warped it on a universal scale. But she still legit scales to Artifice Aion, who scales to The Architect, who scales to Zanza and Shulk. Period.

And yes, I heard about the new story content coming in August and look forward to it. Also, I'm still getting further in the game, but I no longer care about any spoilers. I have legit watched many cutscenes and videos that cleary had all the in depth lore. That do not rely on fan theories like the only one you linked did.

Just gonna ignore that last troll comment
 
Elysium is INSIDE the Low Orbit Station (just check the locations tab under the Low Orbit Station in the Wiki) which in turn is WAY above the World Tree.
The final battle occurs in the Artifice Hanger beneath Elysium.
Look out the DAMN window, ANY window. The reason you can't see an edge is precisely because spheres don't have edges. Hell, the only the Low Orbit Station can stay up there in the first place is because of the Earth's centrifugal force keeping it in place.
That video is from Xenoblade 1, which obviously received multiple retcons/elaborations in the Xenoblade 2 equivalent scenes.
That isn't an explosion, but some sort of reality altering wave, as evidenced by Morytha and the World Tree still standing.
It is a fan theory that makes use of textures in the game, which include US highway signs, which means Morytha is somewhere inside US territory.
The Earth does not have a radius of 100 light years. To make matters worse, you can see the World Tree from the top surface of every titan in the game, which means that it can't be more than 50 miles away (super clear weather and discounting the Earth's curve), so the absolute greatest diameter of Alrest is no larger than 100 miles, and arguable far less due to how clear the World Tree appears (you even see the space elevator with ease). You easily fit the inhabited part of Alrest in Texas multiple times over, which mean nothing in Alrest is continent size for obvious reasons (they simply can't fit).

The event didn't cover the entire universe since the Sun, Moon, and stars are completely unaffected. The reality altering wave also starts to dissipate rapidly after leaving the Earth.

The sun in the first game is mentioned as a big ball of ether that turns on or off depending on the time of day. The sun in the second game is our own sun and would naturally operate in the normal fashion. It's weird behavior can be chalked up to MS slacking off with animating the skybox properly (They were rushed alongside BoTW stealing the better part of the studio).

The Great Void is not a bottomless pit and it is never stated as such. It was made by Artifice Ophion under the orders of the Tantalese to block direct access to the World Tree. The Architect had nothing to do with this.
Then why are you calling it bottomless?

6 days of creation logic doesn't apply here.
The Architect never actually fights, unlike his counterpart Zanza.
No one tanked a Big Bang here (because there was no such thing). How else do you explain the Earth, let alone the World Tree survived that?
Have you ever heard of pocket dimensions/universes before?
The Conduit is affecting the space immediately around Earth and creating a pocket universe. Nothing more is implied.
I don't care about Bravely Default since I have no expertise there, and no one is going to take anything universal or higher without very sound logic. I sincerely doubt that they are moon level, probably building level like most RPG characters.

There were never that many "Great Titans" in the first place.
There aren't that many Blades to begin with thanks to Drivers being especially rare (Nopon ones being the rarest of the lot) before Amalthus started his cleansing ritual, and that had the disastrous effect of screwing up the Blade to Titan lifecycle. Amalthus is also responsible for sinking the Tornan Titan, alongside the Blade to Titan hatchery on it. Look at Brighid and Aegaeon who have been active for 500 years serving the royal family of Mor Ardain but still haven't changed into Titans yet.
Sharing the same time zone only reinforces the small size of Alrest, as well as it's pitiful small population. A record breaking concert by Ursula is 5000 fans after all.
All the major powers can see the World Tree from their home titans, so yes Alrest is small.

The Cloud Sea is not a bottomless pit, since you can see a dead titan lying on the sea floor when Rex goes salvaging during the opening cutscene, and Genbu can actually dive so deep that it can be crushed by pressure. You also have the tide system that works for Gormott and Mor Ardain which means that the Cloud Sea's floor has varying elevations.
The Cloud Sea didn't fade until Klaus gave it the order to.
Elysium isn't in the World Tree, it is on the Low Orbit Station, which should be around 250 miles up (using the ISS as a guide).
Elysium can't contain multiple continents OR large titans. That comment is referring to the entire human population of Alrest, which is easily doable due to how small that number is.

Titans are NOT continents in the real world sense of the word.
You cannot fit 4 real world continents in a single panoramic view.
You cannot throw a continent into the World Tree and expect it to survive the impact, but surviving one of the lighter Titans slamming into is a legitimate durability feat for the World Tree's lower levels.
The galaxies are smaller than the Mushroom Kingdom, and thus can't be called galaxies in the real world sense of the term. A few planets and a total lack of stars does not a galaxy make.
Dragon Quest is an 8-bit game with extremely limited space, so of course the towns wouldn't be properly represented, but this isn't a problem modern games like Xenoblade have.
I can't say anything about Superman because I would have to see the panel to judge if they are full sized planets or something else entirely.
Sonic moves WAY faster in cutscene than that.
Using Pixel Counting and Frames is the crappiest way to measure anything in a video game, especially if it goes against canon feats or if the implications would break the setting.

The Titans are clearly mountain sized, which is something a casual observer can tell from looking at the four of them (Indol, Mor Ardain, Uraya, and Genbu) at the 7th Perimeter Skyport, and you can even get all 4 of them on the screen at the same time.
Even the Tornan battleship/mech can toss Indol around, which is something that battleship mech things aren't supposed to do to continents. That was a seriously impressive sight there.
Mythra and Malos didn't sink 3 continents, they sunk 2, as Indol is entirely responsible for finishing off Torna (though the two Aegises did fight there and probably did wound it a bit).
Considering how much you have wanked Xenoblade characters (where is the Xenosaga page? I want to see where KOS-MOS stands.), I would be surprised if you were accurate with any of those universes.
We never see those Titans get sunk, so your theory of a powerful shockwave is just worthless conjecture.
Living beings have vital organs (Uraya being a good example of such) that can be targeted, so it wouldn't surprise me if a bog standard mountain had more durability.

There is no cinematic time frame there. Jin was able to easily block Siren's Particle Beam but even he acknowledges that he isn't fast enough to stop Pyra from offing herself with the targeting ray. If your villain acknowledges that he can't move fast enough to block one attack when he had no problem blocking the other, then you must accept that the former attack is quite a bit faster than the latter one.
The Particle Beam is canonically slower than light, case closed.

The Conduit is a Zohar (Xenosaga type) in all but name, up to and including making people disappear and messing up the universe anytime it gets used.

Alvis is not the Conduit but the core that went missing from the Trinity Processor, and he even said that he was a computer at the end of Xenoblade 1. He is also only 2-C because he is using the Conduit, and would have much power at all if he lost contact with it.
Zanza has no ability to sense what is going on in Alrest. The Architect is the one who knows that Zanza's end is coming. Zanza's ability to predict the future is restricted to his small universe alone, and can be jammed by the presence of another Monado wielder (which means he isn't truly all knowing within his own universe).
Zanza isn't 2-C because resetting the universe is clearly Alvis's domain.
He is clearly 8-A since he scales somewhat to Shulk (who scales to Yaldabaoth, who should be in the 8-B range, and the lesser faces should be 8-A by comparison), and he can't even defeat Shulk when he is stuck with a replica Monado, and then gets curb stomped by Shulk when Shulk attains the True Monado.
When Zanza is piloting the Bionis he is an easy high 7-A (mountain range) or low 6-C (small island). This might be overestimating when considering the Monado is super effective against Mechon armor and that the Mechonis is fairly hollow when compared to the Bionis.
The Architect isn't 2-C either, since he uses technological means to heal the world (nanomachines son), and his only combat feat is having Malos's Monado bounce off of him. He has no offensive feats at all.
Shulk, Pneuma, and Aion don't have 2-C feats either, as they never remade a universe (Alvis is the only one here who can claim that).
Shulk is not FTL+, as the calc that was used there is total hogwash.
First, Shulk and co aren't traveling in the Solar System, they are in Memory Space (http://xenoblade.wikia.com/wiki/Memory_Space), which by definition is a memory, so those planets and stars are illusions at best.
Second, Shulk moves between the memory planets via green teleporter, so he doesn't cross the whole solar system in the first place.
Third, if he was moving at FTL+ he would zip by any planet in an instant, which clearly doesn't happen.
Fourth, the meteors from the meteor shower at Mars are passing by him, and no one is going to make the claim of MFTL meteors here, let alone what horrible things they would do to Mars.
Pneuma>Jin>>>>>>>Zeke>>Shulk>>normal people. Pneuma, Jin, and Zeke are actually portrayed as being varying levels of fast in cutscenes, while Shulk never got that luxury. Thus Shulk is clearly not the Flash in MS's eyes.

Aion is not designed to kill the Architect for the rather obvious reason that Aion predated the Architect, or are you going to say they needed to make this big, scary robot to fight some random scientist with a German name?
Shulk and Zanza are also predated by Aion as well.
Aion was designed to "destroy the world" (not the universe) in a last resort type of scenario.
That was not an explosion, how many times do I have to tell you this? An explosion of the magnitude you imply would have destroyed the World Tree, Morytha, and the Low Orbit Station.
The experiment teleported all of Humanity to different worlds and screwed up what little life was left on the planet at the time. Duarbility isn't useful against some thing like that.
Pneuma can't realty warp on a universal scale, as she needs to be close to Indol to slow it down in the first place. She doesn't reality warp at all in the ending, as she sets Aion's reactor to overload and self-destruct (https://youtu.be/6JMLAeSU8x4?t=968) in the ending, destroying the Low Orbit Station and a good chunk of the elevator, which helps stabilize the World Tree by lowering it's center of mass.
None of those guys scales to Pneuma at all, and only Alvis is above her (albeit by several tiers).
Most Rex vs Shulk threads online seem to favor Shulk so it seems like Rex has the better stats/hax according to the online community in general.
 
I really don't appreciate your obnoxious behavior; also, there's still so many off topic and irrelevant things you're telling me.

Alrest is not a sphere, it doesn't even look close to a sphere. The Cloud Sea looks way to flat and it's not wavy like the real world ocean is. It's flat just like the oceans in Xenoblade Chronicles 1. And it's also flat like the oceans you see in the end game after you defeat Artifice Aion.

That's not an explosion, that some kind of reality altering wave. Doesn't make the argument any better. Reality warping a planet is a planet level feat and reality warping a universe is a universal feat. Still, why would a reality warping wave that gave birth to a whole new universe and started from the original universe not alter the universe from which it originated? Also, the scene from Xenoblade 1 is legit what happens in both games. Just because you don't see the details in the 2nd game, doesn't mean it didn't happen. It's still originates from the same story. The "100 lightyears" came from a Heart to Heart conversation in game. Even if you flew away from the World Tree at the speed of light for a hundred years, all you would see is an endless amount of cloud sea.

Also, I know full well what Pocket Realities are, but it's not that. It's literally an actual universe is what is created. If a world is infinite in size, it's a universe. Xenoblade 1's world is clearly an entire universe.

Again, fan theories are not reliable. The signs resembling US signs are just cameos; which again, serves no purpose. You don't actively see the sun rotate, it just stays in place, and when night falls, the clouds cover it. The Sun, Moon, and stars are only there because they were recreated. Also, creating a Universe is legit a Low 2-C feat again. Even Reality altering a universe is Low 2-C. The literal definition of a void is an endless amount of nothingness. Still there are dialogues describing the Great Void as being boundless. Yes, it was created by Ophion 500 years ago, and was later closed, but during the time it was opened. It was a rift where the depths go on for eternity. Multiple stars can also be seen inside the Great Void; ironic considering the Great Void is supposedly contained underneath the World Tree and within the Cloud Sea. When the Cloud Sea rises and falls, it does so exponentially, it's deeper than the Noah's Ark flood. Still, regardless of Cloud Sea level, it's still very flat, which wouldn't be the case if it was a sphere like Earth is.

Alrest and all Titans are much larger than you realize. You can just lowball everything out of assumptions; that's called nit picking, which doesn't prove a single point. Elysium contained billions of lives and multiple "Continents." Also, each Titan also contains multiple countries, and again. Game mechanics, the developers don't have enough time to include millions of character sprites per city, make cities contain millions of buildings, or make continents contain that many cities and landmarks. Being retro or modern doesn't make a difference here. We don't know how massive the World Tree is, but it's exceptionally tall for its width and it wasn't there before Architect rebuilt the "world." The World Tree is still massively bigger than the First Low Orbit Station or Elysium which is already bigger than multiple Continents.

Reality altering waves that create universes are generally considered big bangs, and effect Space-Time as well. And if it originates from one universe and creates a second one, it's generally a two split universe big bang. Zanza/Klaus/Architect legit tanks it. And yes, Alvis is the core of the Conduit meaning he is the literally the embodiment of the conduit's source of power. He's also an Omniscient being, so that further proves everything he says about Xenoblade's lore is true. He says the original universe was destroyed and a new one was created. And that he gave Zanza and Meyneth the power to destroy and recreate the universe as many times as they desire. And that Shulk was given the same power once he obtained the True Monado. Yes, Zanza sees his own universe, past, present, and future on an omnipresent scale, but didn't see Shulk due to Shulk's powers surpassing his own. Architect clearly as knowledge about Zanza though, and it could be that Zanza was simply not interested his other half and didn't really care about what happens. But still, Zanza and the Architect are the same being, if one half dies, the other goes with them. Zanza's death was what caused Architect's death. Also, just because the Architect never fought, doesn't mean he's powerless. Rosalina never fought, but she's legit Low 2-C. Also, World is a vague term, as mentioned above. It can mean country, planet, universe, multiverse, hyperverse, or even Outerverse. In this case, it means universe. Also, there are universes that consist of one massive planet with infinite amounts of oceans and skies. That's pretty much what various Ancient Mythologies believed the Earth to be. And it's also what both Xenoblade games consist of. Also, Artifice Aion was stated to be the only thing that can kill the Architect; that's how Malos planned to kill the Architect and destroy all of Alrest. And Pneuma legit defeated Aion, so that's how Powerscaling works; it's a big part of this community. In fact, look here. It's clearly stated that the Artifice Aion is directly powered by the conduit. Still, the Architect dying is what was causing the World Tree to collapse due to the Conduit being absent from the Universe. The World Tree was about to fall and destroy the universe, but and now Pneuma has to be the new Architect which is why she saved it from collapsation.

Furthermore, Even Mortal Kombat 9 and X has 7 foot tall Raiden, 6'2" Scorpion and Sub-Zero and 6'1" Johnny Cage, 5'10" Liu Kang and Kung Lao, and 5'8" Kano all appear identical in height. PS4 and Xbox One really aren't that much better than NES and Super NES when it comes to size logic. So the Titans are literally Continent sized, anything that implies it being smaller than that is still just lazy game design. Also, Bravely Default is legit Multiversal, Kingdom Hearts is Large Star level, Final Fantasy 7 is Solar System level, Final Fantasy 6 and Chrono Trigger are Large Planet level, Shin Megami Tensui is Complex Multiversal, Fire Emblem generally ranges from Country level to Multi-Continent level, Phantasy Star is Solar System level many Final Fantasy games range from Tier 6 to Tier 2, with Exdeath being 2-A. Where does Building level god tiers come from? Also, one of out staff members are working on Xenogears to rest tight. But Wave Existence is High Complex Multiversal. Kos-Mos appearing in Xenoblade 2 is just a cameo.

And yes, I'm well aware of the memory space thing in Xenoblade 1. But still, Shulk and the party were actively running which they passed Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, ect, on their journey. You do realize it takes the speed of light a 3 minutes to travel from Earth to Mars where as Shulk did it in a few seconds. And from Mars to Jupiter, it takes the speed of light 30 minutes, Shulk did it in a few seconds as well. But anyway, that's off topic, the background was scrolling fast enough to make it look like they were traveling pretty fast with the planets being seen on the sides. Every instance that portrayed Shulk as slower was do to them not being as powerful back then as they are much later on. First, base Shulk was supersonic via dodging bullets, but Monado II is Moon level and Massively Hypersonic scaling from the Bionus, who is that powerful via sheer size; and Shulk scales to it. And then everyone grew much stronger later on. Shulk became Universe level+ when he fought Zanza.

The particle Beam is light speed. Pyra and Jin perceive the speed of light as being completely motionless with 100% seriousness. Target ray has nothing to do with speed, it's just perception. It means Pneuma is simply even faster than Jin who is in tern faster than particle beam. By the way, Artifice Siren's Particle Beam does legit say it uses photons, which is a very scientific property of light. So case in point, Siren's particle Beam is light, and perhaps Macro-Quantum destruction as well, but it's Atomic Destruction at bare minimum.

Again, "The World" can refer to planet or universe, but in this case, it is universal. If it can destroy the Architect, who is legit Universal and we are not downgrading Xenoblade 1 cast anytime soon, then Aion is Low 2-C. If you have problems with how some of those other characters are rated, read the Discussion Rules page first, and you may try to downgrade some of those verses by creating Content Revisions for said verses. But I have to warn you, I doubt any of those downgrades are going to be accepted. Especially the ones on the Discussion Rules page. Anyway, I'm still holding on to these upgrades no matter what, it's going to take more than a new user who doesn't seem to invested in this site to convince me; no offence, I'm a nice guy. We don't ask you to agree with everything we do things around here, but forcing your opinions on us is not the answer.
 
Yeah, relatively new user, and it seems he doesn't quite understand our methods for our tiering system or debating. He just said every JRPG character was Building level; which is a really bad sign...
 
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