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Xenoblade Chronicles 2 spoilers, massive upgrades for Rex and Pyra

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DarkDragonMedeus

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This might be long overdue, and I was hoping to at least finish the game before making this, but given all the Pyra Vs threads ending in disaster, I pretty much forced myself to look at spoilers.

The Final Boss Artifice Aio is said to be able to destroy all of Alrest, which is similar to the first Xenoblade game. It contains the Cloud Sea, which is said to be Infinite in size. Regardless of Ocean water or Clouds, being infinite in size would make such a destruction feat be High 3-A at bare minimum. But this article refers to Aion as the "Endbringer" implying is causes the end of time. This may serve as a Low 2-C feat. This video is quite lengthy, but provides info one more endbringer statements. But the article probably still holds more weight on that regard. Towards the last 13 minutes of the video however, Pneuma Pyra is seen seemingly sacrificing herself to warp reality on a universal scale. The Endless Cloud Sea, becomes an Endless Ocean like in the first Xenoblade.

This should preferably only apply to Endgame Rex and Pyra; they're the protagonists legitimately fighting on par with Aion with Rex's Aegis and Pneuma being Pyra's true form. I know Jin is portrayed as being overwhelmingly stronger than everyone else, save Pneuma and Rex. Malos is the one controlling Aion, but although his base form can remain at least 6-A given the statement on him and base Pyra sinking 3 continents in a clash. Although, that being said, range is probably lowballed, and creating a shockwave that covers 3 continents would be thousands of kilometers.

There's also the Architect, who is the other half of Zanza. Zanza is legit Low 2-C for other reasons mentioned on his profile. And when the Universal big band effected the original universe, Alvis split Klaus in half and BFR'd it to the Xenoblade Chronicles 1 universe as seen on another thread. The Architect, then recreated the original universe; which later became Xenoblade Chronicles 2. this video further backed up by future statements also confirmed that Aion has the power to kill Architect. And since the Architect should be identical to Zanza in power, that's another backup for Low 2-C upgrades.

Alvis (Xenoblade Chronicles) should also be upgraded to 2-C. He Reality Warped the original universe while simultaneously created another universe to BFR the 2nd half of Klaus/Zanza to. Where Zanza later became god of that universe. So splitting one Universe into two Universes seems like a Low Multiverse level feat. Zanza might also have Low Multiversal range due to existing in two universes, but a weakness in which if one half dies, the other does as well might be a good idea.

Speaking of other abilities, summoning Artifice Sire should give them At least Planetary range with summons. It's a lightspeed laser firing from far away at an unknown location, but it takes a second or two; which would be roughly several hundred thousand kilometers. Which is Planetary range. this page also mentions that it's a Particle Cannon, which I heard may reduce the enemy to particles. So possibly Atomic Destruction?

Conclusions, Low 2-C upgrades for Rex and Pyra's Endgame keys. Significant range upgrades, and possible new ability addition.
 
Alright,i'm fine with this revision,but we need to justified the Aion feat as legit high 3-A or Low 2-C or both,also Deus,This upgrade is only affect Pyra and Rex only? Not to the other? And if so then should all of Pyra and Rex tier 6 get removed?

Only atomic manipulation eh,not bad.......
 
Nah, their base keys should preferably remain Tier 6. Jin is the one character I'm not sure about upgrades though.
 
Well, their match ups would get removed if that's what you're asking, yes. Pyra will go back to have no losses. But Base Pyra and Base Malos still scale to their Tier 6 statement which scales to the rest of the cast. We don't scale everyone to the god tiers for obvious reasons. So it would just be Pyra, Rex, and Artifice Aion who get upgraded to Low 2-C. Should also be noted that the good half of Zanza/Klaus was involved and even he feared Aion would destroy the world.
 
I think it's preferable to make a Malos profile, but then give Malos a 2nd key in which he's controlling Aion.
 
I did ask Numbersguy to comment here, while not an Admin, he is an expert whom the staff trusts his judgement iirc. So it's probably a good idea to wait for him. There was also a bit of time reset during the reality warping like when "Gramps" evolved back into his Titan form real fast and the "decaying land" being restored, so Low 2-C does seem far more likely and it's easier to find good match ups that way; Shulk Vs Rex could actually happen. Though even better is Pyra vs Shulk or a whole bunch of characters of the same tier out there.
 
Numbers did make a good point that we should preferably find a video that mentions the quote, "Endless Cloud Sea" or that Alrest is "A world with no surface but a neverending cloud sea."
 
@Velox: I've already asked Matt on Discord, and he said he'll take a look when he's got the time to spare.

And about the Cloud Sea; i think it's not even close to being infinite in size, but spans across the entire planet. And if i'm not mistaken, some cutscenes show this. I'll go look for it when i've got the time, but as i just woke up and need to get ready for school... that's going to take a while.
 
Oh really? Well there are many Titans the size of continents and there are quotes that describe the cloud see as being endless. Also, I don't remember anything about planets aside from the backstory of Xenoblade 1 birth which is rescene in XC2. There's some open space between the clouds occasionally, and the sky is above the clouds, but half of infinity is still infinity. Also, a world having "no surface" does sound like another synonym for being infinite amount of 3D space.
 
I'm a bit iffy on this. Them saying it's endless doesn't mean it's infinite. For all we know, the characters haven't really explored throughout the sea and assume it's infinite.
 
I mean, "Endless" is something that will not be over. That could also be interpreted as "Infinity".

Unless we're strictly using the math term only.
 
You guys did read the links right? Including the entire article? Anyway, The Cloud Sea is often metaphored as an endless void, and there's even a location called The Great Void located in the Cloud Sea that Surrounds the World Tree.

Also, Glassman, I'm very positive that the Nigh-Omniscient creator of the world would know whether or not it's truly infinite in size. Not to mention Zanza and the Architect are individually half of Klaus creating their own parallel universes. XBC1's universe was already established as infinite in size via very consistent statements.
 
That's kind of just an illusion though. The Great Void is full of illusions that make them appear like their in the original universe that came long before the first two universes. They are in the World Tree, which is located in the center of the Cloud Sea, not above it. Being above Alrest were just statements made by characters who have no idea how big Alrest is. The Architect on the other hand clearly describes the Cloud Sea as being an endless void and that the universe in XBC2 is parallel to the one in XBC1. In the ending, the Cloud Sea while vanishing later transforms into an infinite amount of flat oceans that mirror that of the first Xenoblade world.

If anything, Alvis (Xenoblade Chronicles) might need a 2-C upgrade since he was the computer who split Klaus and warped reality on both universes. Zanza could also possible have Low Multiversal range.
 
I think Klaus' infinte statement is hyperbole to describe how large of a threat Malos is to Rex and the Gang. I do agree with the Alvis thing. There is no real evidence of what the gang sees of alrest being an illusion though. We don't know the ocean at the end is infinite; we just know its larger than the eye can see.

EDIT: I disagree with Zanza range upgrade.
 
Given that the Architect is a Nigh-Omniscient being who created the universe, that's pretty skeptical/Nitpicky to call it a hyperbole. Also, the Orbit Station is located in a location that is described by The Architect is being simply "A Memory". And Whenever they're actually in Alrest, the Cloud Sea is extremely consistent in describing it as endless in size. Also, there are like thousands of Continent sized Titans at the very least, as opposed to just 7 or 8. That should give you an idea of how big Alrest is at bare minimum.

Also, Malos being a threat was well before the Pneuma upgrade; Rex and Pyra were able to beat him in base form. Artifice Aion and Jin on the other hand is massively above Base Malos. Zanza/Klaus range comes from existing in two universes at the same time.
 
what is it a memory of? one of the party members (forget which one) claims they saw one of the titans. I agree with Alrest not being planet sized, but unquantifiably larger. about it being 3-A or 2-C, I don't beleive anyone ever calls him 'Endbringer' in game; thats just something used for the plot section of a wiki article. If this were to be accepted, which I disagree with, it would be High 3-A. No one ever mentions time coming into play. Also, it would scale to the whole party because, unlike Xenoblade 1, its never portrayed that Rex is carrying the team like Shulk was against Zanza.
 
A Memory of the original universe, even the First Xenoblade something like this. It's the same world Shulk was in whenever Alvis was communicating with him in private, and the same world were running from the Moon to Mars in seconds feat came from. Pretty much the entire final 3 chapters are full of illusions and many other things, especially the final chapter were Rex is constantly seeing visions of Shulk. Xenoblade 2 pretty much takes place progressing through the same time as Xenoblade 1. When Shulk deals the final blow to Zanza is when Architect dies and passes on all his powers to Pneuma.

Nah, Pneuma is overwhelmingly greater than everyone else, and is technically the only reason Rex would scale due to being in sinc with her. Jin is like overwhelmingly greater than everyone else and was stomping the party until Pneuma used her OP reality warping powers to enable her and Rex to keep up with him. So it only scales to those powered by Pneuma, which would be Pyra because her fused with Mythra is Pneuma, and Rex, because Pneuma is his blade.

Also, there is technically some form of time manipulation during a Reality warp, and Reality warping an infinite sized universe is generally a Low 2-C feat. Also, if were going to ignore that feat, Pneuma should still at least scale from the Architect due to gaining all his powers in order to warp the universe. Artifice Aion is still for told to be able to annihilate all existence. The Architect said he knows this because it's his atonement for Klaus creating the two universes and Zanza causing trouble to the XBC1 Universe. Architect was the one who gave Artifice Aion the power to destroy all of Alrest and cause the End of Time.
 
Those Illusions are actually mixing the past, present, and future actually. The party is basically seeing a combination of all three universes here; the original universe, Shulk's universe, and Alrest. And that's despite the fact that everyone is technically still located in the center of Alrest. They are in the Great Void, which is where the Orbit Stations, Elysium, and the World Tree are located, and all of it is still contained inside the center of the Cloud Sea despite the illusions. Not to mention the Great Void does contain many stars, which shows the Cloud Sea's size is drastically bigger than the Solar System at bare minimum.

That seen that has Alrest being portrayed as a planet is using a genjutsu to make Alrest somewhat resemble the original Earth. And this is literally the same location where Rex is constantly seeing images of Shulk, sees the original Klaus, and where he sees Pyra and Mythra with personality reversals. Still consistent with word of god consistently stating the Cloud Sea as being "Endless" and describing Alrest as having no real surface.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Those Illusions are actually mixing the past, present, and future actually. The party is basically seeing a combination of all three universes here; the original universe, Shulk's universe, and Alrest.
100% headcanon, or at least provide evidence. Word of God is irrelevent unless there are feats to back it up, which there aren't. Btw, I'm gonna add myself to the knowledgeable members list. I'm just gonna place my opninion here: Rex and Pyra should be upgraded to at least 4-A due to the great void containing many stars. This would only apply to Pyra, Rex, Jin, and Malos (as Aion). Alvis from Xenoblade 1 should be upgraded to 2-C and get Multi-Universal range. Characters repeatedly say that the sea is endless, yet you can see an end at the Orbit Station.
 
I did provide evidence. Reread the various pages I linked in the OP and a few more throughout the thread. And it is not headcanon if both the legit creator of the universe and the narrator clearly state it; arguing the opposite would be both headcanon and strawman. Not to mention, KOS-MOS from Xenogears makes an appearance; not sure what tier she's going to be once Everlasting finishes up the revisions, but she's portrayed as a Blade like any other in this game. But that's off topic. Anyway, the video you linked in which they are on the orbit station is still contained inside the Great Void in which they see the surface of a fake Alrest. When in reality, they are inside the very center of the actual Alrest.

Alvis should be upgraded yes, but even ignoring the extremely consistent and 100% Primary Canon lore statements about the real cloud see being endless still has some legitimate information Pneuma and Aion to scale to Zanza. Aion is a artifice even Architect/Zanza/Klaus fears and is confirmed to be capable of killing the Architect. The Aegis is a sibling sword comparable to the Monado, Pneuma is the true Aegis similar to how Alvis is the true Monado; (albeit the Monado is actually a fraction of Alvis), the Architect gave Pneuma all of his power when he dies, and Pyra warps reality on a universal scale.

Edit: the "Planet" they saw was the old Elysium. Additionally, the entire Xenoblade Chronicles 2 setting is always a sequence of a world inside another world in which the entire Xeno verse in general has always been like that from what I hear.
 
BTW,my friend say this:

"While I am completely neutral toward this upgrade, I am quite uncertain about Xenoblade's Cosmology.

"I did not see any reference of it being a universal space-time continuum otherwise I might outright accept this particular upgrade."


In addition with that, it is possible to take things literally outright of context or using headcanon for that matter."
 
Xenoblade is a spinoff of Xenogears technically speaking; it's literally a fraction of the Xenogears lore. Similar to what Persona is to Shin Megami Tensui. IIRC, I did have one friend mention that all individual universes within each 5-D multiverse in Xenogears contained an infinite amount 3-Dimension Space as well as a 4-Dimension Space-Time Continuum. So this would include both universes for each Xenoblade Chronicles game. Additionally, if anything Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is even more expansive than the first one.

Aside from lore statements about the sees and skies being infinite in size due to being an Endless Sea, the only part of the universe we actually see two Moon sized Titans who play the role of planets/continents. And those Titans are actually the physical embodiments of Zanza and Meyneth respectively. And then we have Stationary Stars that are simply blocked by the clouds or move farther away when day to night transitions happen. Additionally, word of God and the creator of the universe both said it's an endless sea.

Xenoblade 2 also has statements about the Cloud Sea being Endless, and not only that, the Great Void was also described as Endless. Speaking of which, the Great Tree in particular is much larger than it appears. They weren't just inside the Great Void, but they were climbing the Great Tree. The Great True contains the Orbit Stations, the "Planet" they saw below, which the party assumed to be Alrest, the Modern day Elysium, which is way above the Orbit Space Stations, and the background containing many stars. So the Great True is that big, and is located in the center of the Great Void, not above it, and the Great Void is in the center of Alrest, not above it.

In conclusion, "The Planet"/Illusion that looks like Alrest + Orbit Stations + Elysium + Many Many Stars <<<<<<<< The World Tree <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< The Great Void = Endless Void/Infinite amount of 3D Space <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Endless Cloud Sea = Also Infinite in size <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< the real Alrest. Not assuming higher Infinities, but Pneuma was clearly resetting space in the end of Xenoblade 2; Reality Warping on a Universal scale means destroying the Previous Space-Time Continuum and recreating it in your own image. And that's what Pneuma does. Not to mention she and Aion should still scale to Zanza, as even the Architect who equals Zanza in power is threatened by Aion and gave Pneuma all his power when the Architect dies. So in other words, Low 2-C is what it comes down to.
 
They are? Nevermind on that part then. But I'm still holding on to everything else I mentioned.
 
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