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Xeelee upgrade
- Thread starter Jockey-1337
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Sorry, I literally have almost no time in last days, so only short answer.
@Antvasima
About dimensional structure of the Xeeleeverse.
As sufficient explain:
This is basically a Hilbert Space, that in Quantum mechanics is used to describe possible states of the system. The number of dimensions in it is correlated to the number of elements/particles in the system, and with infinity many particles in said system this number becomes infinite ( uncountably infinite infact ).
He is one of the most knowledgeable SB users in physics and mathematics(and best in Xeeleeverse), and Baxter is physicist and mathematician too, but if you want I can ask him for more detailed and scientific explanation later.
I`m, unlike sufficient, doesn't have good knowledge in the QM, but i`ll try to explain his logic. Quote stated:
If the universe has three particles,' said Reth, 'you need three numbers. Three relative distances ― the separation of the particles, one from the other - determine the cosmos's shape. And so the dust grains, mapping possible configurations, would fill up three-dimensional space -though there is still a unique grain, representing the special instant where all the particles are joined. And with four particles -' 'There would be six separation distances,' Hama said. 'And you would need a six-dimensional space to map the possible configurations.
So, we can calculate how complex is Xeeleeverse multiverses via calculating number of particles in the previous level system(if universe have 3 particles- CS would be 3 dimensional space, if we have 4 particles ― CS would be 6 dimensional space, and if we have infinite number of particles in system, we need in infinite dimensional hyperstructure).
We are know that the new Xeelee-created multiverses(yes, Baxter dislike term multiverse and never using it, he called it universes, but it is by definition multiverses, because they have infinite number of Hubble volumes(type I mv by Tegmark) , constantly branching(type III mv by Tegmark), and have higher realms, like SuSy space, CS(infinite dimensional), etc) are infinite in size and have uncountable infinite of matter, so its Config Space does have uncountable infinite number of dimensions.
Yep, Baxter in the Xeelee Sequence adding many high-end stuff, and trying to explain it, using modern-day theoretical physics, infinite dimensional Hilbert spaces as example of this.
And the most amazing in this multiverse-creating facts to me that:
1) This multiverses(or Hyperverses) was created by Xeelee in the wartime with equal(or superior) enemy.
2) Showed multiverse was created for the one insignificant species, that exist only (infinite, for Xeelee)short time in the one galaxy(Silver Ghosts), in the one universe in the one configuration of CS.
3) Multiverse creation was called standard Xeelee tactic. They are really want to create many such Hyperverses for the most of sentient species(except bad guys like Xeeleeverse humans and Qax, but later they give chance even to humans, only by different way). And this was doing in literally… zero-time, because CtC and Anti-Xeelee.
We can combine this three factors for understand how ease for the Xeelee-civilization making this projects.
Even Transcendence, godlike posthuman society that can edit CS by force of will on the level that far beyond any previously iteration of humanity, that living in their own created abstract meta-reality are still nothing to Xeelee, even members of Transcendence suggest this. sufficient suggests that even post-singularity Transcendence are still be less powerful than Xeelee(and in short story seer and silverman Silver Ghost speculated that post-ascended Transcendence can joins to the Xeelee, so perhaps it is the lowest level for the TrueXeelee members). I can say even more, they even cannot touch Xeelee. they carry over humanity, and know about future Scourge, but then understand that they are cannot help humans in any way, even their plan to ascend into pan-infinite, near-omnipotent being can give help them only chance to survive in Xeeleeverse, not defeat Xeelee, they are would be still superior to them. Also, Transcendence, with all their higher-dimensional manipulations and infinite computational abilities cannot even understand not only nature of Xeelee-civilization(they cannot comprehend them), but even how Xeelee-tech works, they are not understand scales of the War in Heavens, its still beyond them.
Actually we are don't know anything about upper limits of TrueXeelee civilization, because we are even don't see them, only their tools, . We can only extrapolating, summarizing bits of material, like hyperverse-creation, absolute superiority to the Transcendence, and actions on level beyond their level, abilities even Nightfighters manipulate CS on high level, and such. Unfortunately, we have not books from Xeelee point of view, all books written from the humans point of view, and about Xeelee interactions with humanity(and other younger races) sufficient wrote:
"A neutron star thrown by some humans on the Ring ? Send a single Nightfighter. Some humans playing with the Configuration Space ? Send a single Nightfighter. Someone tinkers with yours quantum communication system ? Send a single Nightfighter. Ghosts, humans and various other species have sent ships to investigate a quagma ark ? Send a single Nightfighter. Ect."
Some another evidence about Xeeleeverse feats:
https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/xeelee-verse-vs-digimon-verse.395277/#post-22648036
Also, I think add Probability Manipulation to the Xeelee feats, and Mathematic manipulation or so, even teleporters in the Xeeleeverse manipulating probability on the basic level, and Xeelee Nightfighter can warp up itself into existence only because someone stated it, it was happen in the logic pool, mathematical universe, that humans creates on the beginning of their space colonization history, from Starfall:
The logic pool, he said, was a metamathematical universe. While not infinite it comprised more mathematical understanding, far more, than had yet been explored by mankind ― and in principle, somewhere within the metamathematical branching of the pool, any algorithm possible might exist. Shira said softly,
'All our science is based on the search for simple rules underlying complex phenomena. Simple algorithms can be shown to generate complexities, from the turbulent flow in a glass of water to the spiral structure of the Galaxy itself.'
'You see the idea,' Flood said. 'There's a lot of nonsense in there, but also a lot of treasure to be dug out. It's as if you have a tank full of every possible combination of words in Earthish. Most of it is dross. But in there are the finest fruits of human scientific understanding ― even those not discovered yet. But Shira has always been more ambitious than that, haven't you, Empress?'
And Nightfighter grown itself in the center of Earth only because someone stated there is possible:
'But whether or not she ever achieved her goal, she is in danger of unleashing much greater threats on humanity. For some of the minds in there are not content with stasis, with waiting to be discovered. Look at this.'
He summoned up a Virtual of his own. 'We've been tracking the consequences for years. Decades. We have our spies, in the Solar System. This is a neutrino scan we made from the Freestar just hours ago.'
It took Stillich a moment to work out that he was looking at a cross section of the Earth, deep below the granite raft of Manhattan, and the imperial bunker. And down there, swimming in the mantle, was a shape, perhaps organic, perhaps artificial, a winged shape like a stingray, like a sycamore seed. 'It isn't fully formed,' Flood said grimly. 'Not fully operational. But it soon will be.' Kale asked, 'What is it?'
'In the Friends' accounts of their dark future, there are hints of a race even more threatening to mankind than the occupiers of Earth from whom they fled. A race called—' his pronunciation was uncertain, 'Chee-lee, Zee-lee. They, or their potentialities, are lurking in the logic pool. And they are trying to break out.' 'How?' Kale snapped. 'By constructing this ship, deep in the Earth? How are they doing that?'
'We have no idea,' Flood said. 'Our only concern is to stop it, before this ship bursts from the Earth like a bird from its egg. This is a threat so potent it is trying to strike at us out of nothing more than of a statement of the logical possibility of its own existence.
Also, I think it is interesting too about Anti-Xeelee, device of Xeelee civilization:
Thanks to the logic pool Xeelee has showed up, that they only need a logical possibility of their existence, to come to be. I would even go little further and say that they can perform such a feat without the usage of the logic pool.
The situation showed to us in the Starfall is, in my opinion, very similar to how the AntiXeelee "was" created. In one of the branches in the configuration space there was a possibility that it came to be, and out of this possibility the AntiXeelee started to exist. By its own existence ( thank to it negative vector in time ) it has ensured, by taking care of the Xeelee projects, that it will be possible for it to be, in the first place. Given that it is based on quantum wave functions, the moment it will "start" to be, it will spread out through all possible configurations in the CS, or if we go with the "timeless" approach, it would be simply always present in all branches of the CS.
This is caused by the fact that quantum wave functions describe all possible histories of an object, that do exist simultaneously, at least in the abstract mathematical phase space. This is true in all interpretations of the quantum mechanics, and differences between this interpretations refer to just what does this exactly mean in a physical world.
And the logic pool, with its "I can exist simply because there was a possibility that something makes a logical statement that I can be" ads to this interpretation of the AntiXeelee additional evidence.
All credits goes to sufficient.
@Antvasima
About dimensional structure of the Xeeleeverse.
As sufficient explain:
This is basically a Hilbert Space, that in Quantum mechanics is used to describe possible states of the system. The number of dimensions in it is correlated to the number of elements/particles in the system, and with infinity many particles in said system this number becomes infinite ( uncountably infinite infact ).
He is one of the most knowledgeable SB users in physics and mathematics(and best in Xeeleeverse), and Baxter is physicist and mathematician too, but if you want I can ask him for more detailed and scientific explanation later.
I`m, unlike sufficient, doesn't have good knowledge in the QM, but i`ll try to explain his logic. Quote stated:
If the universe has three particles,' said Reth, 'you need three numbers. Three relative distances ― the separation of the particles, one from the other - determine the cosmos's shape. And so the dust grains, mapping possible configurations, would fill up three-dimensional space -though there is still a unique grain, representing the special instant where all the particles are joined. And with four particles -' 'There would be six separation distances,' Hama said. 'And you would need a six-dimensional space to map the possible configurations.
So, we can calculate how complex is Xeeleeverse multiverses via calculating number of particles in the previous level system(if universe have 3 particles- CS would be 3 dimensional space, if we have 4 particles ― CS would be 6 dimensional space, and if we have infinite number of particles in system, we need in infinite dimensional hyperstructure).
We are know that the new Xeelee-created multiverses(yes, Baxter dislike term multiverse and never using it, he called it universes, but it is by definition multiverses, because they have infinite number of Hubble volumes(type I mv by Tegmark) , constantly branching(type III mv by Tegmark), and have higher realms, like SuSy space, CS(infinite dimensional), etc) are infinite in size and have uncountable infinite of matter, so its Config Space does have uncountable infinite number of dimensions.
Yep, Baxter in the Xeelee Sequence adding many high-end stuff, and trying to explain it, using modern-day theoretical physics, infinite dimensional Hilbert spaces as example of this.
And the most amazing in this multiverse-creating facts to me that:
1) This multiverses(or Hyperverses) was created by Xeelee in the wartime with equal(or superior) enemy.
2) Showed multiverse was created for the one insignificant species, that exist only (infinite, for Xeelee)short time in the one galaxy(Silver Ghosts), in the one universe in the one configuration of CS.
3) Multiverse creation was called standard Xeelee tactic. They are really want to create many such Hyperverses for the most of sentient species(except bad guys like Xeeleeverse humans and Qax, but later they give chance even to humans, only by different way). And this was doing in literally… zero-time, because CtC and Anti-Xeelee.
We can combine this three factors for understand how ease for the Xeelee-civilization making this projects.
Even Transcendence, godlike posthuman society that can edit CS by force of will on the level that far beyond any previously iteration of humanity, that living in their own created abstract meta-reality are still nothing to Xeelee, even members of Transcendence suggest this. sufficient suggests that even post-singularity Transcendence are still be less powerful than Xeelee(and in short story seer and silverman Silver Ghost speculated that post-ascended Transcendence can joins to the Xeelee, so perhaps it is the lowest level for the TrueXeelee members). I can say even more, they even cannot touch Xeelee. they carry over humanity, and know about future Scourge, but then understand that they are cannot help humans in any way, even their plan to ascend into pan-infinite, near-omnipotent being can give help them only chance to survive in Xeeleeverse, not defeat Xeelee, they are would be still superior to them. Also, Transcendence, with all their higher-dimensional manipulations and infinite computational abilities cannot even understand not only nature of Xeelee-civilization(they cannot comprehend them), but even how Xeelee-tech works, they are not understand scales of the War in Heavens, its still beyond them.
Actually we are don't know anything about upper limits of TrueXeelee civilization, because we are even don't see them, only their tools, . We can only extrapolating, summarizing bits of material, like hyperverse-creation, absolute superiority to the Transcendence, and actions on level beyond their level, abilities even Nightfighters manipulate CS on high level, and such. Unfortunately, we have not books from Xeelee point of view, all books written from the humans point of view, and about Xeelee interactions with humanity(and other younger races) sufficient wrote:
"A neutron star thrown by some humans on the Ring ? Send a single Nightfighter. Some humans playing with the Configuration Space ? Send a single Nightfighter. Someone tinkers with yours quantum communication system ? Send a single Nightfighter. Ghosts, humans and various other species have sent ships to investigate a quagma ark ? Send a single Nightfighter. Ect."
Some another evidence about Xeeleeverse feats:
https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/xeelee-verse-vs-digimon-verse.395277/#post-22648036
Also, I think add Probability Manipulation to the Xeelee feats, and Mathematic manipulation or so, even teleporters in the Xeeleeverse manipulating probability on the basic level, and Xeelee Nightfighter can warp up itself into existence only because someone stated it, it was happen in the logic pool, mathematical universe, that humans creates on the beginning of their space colonization history, from Starfall:
The logic pool, he said, was a metamathematical universe. While not infinite it comprised more mathematical understanding, far more, than had yet been explored by mankind ― and in principle, somewhere within the metamathematical branching of the pool, any algorithm possible might exist. Shira said softly,
'All our science is based on the search for simple rules underlying complex phenomena. Simple algorithms can be shown to generate complexities, from the turbulent flow in a glass of water to the spiral structure of the Galaxy itself.'
'You see the idea,' Flood said. 'There's a lot of nonsense in there, but also a lot of treasure to be dug out. It's as if you have a tank full of every possible combination of words in Earthish. Most of it is dross. But in there are the finest fruits of human scientific understanding ― even those not discovered yet. But Shira has always been more ambitious than that, haven't you, Empress?'
And Nightfighter grown itself in the center of Earth only because someone stated there is possible:
'But whether or not she ever achieved her goal, she is in danger of unleashing much greater threats on humanity. For some of the minds in there are not content with stasis, with waiting to be discovered. Look at this.'
He summoned up a Virtual of his own. 'We've been tracking the consequences for years. Decades. We have our spies, in the Solar System. This is a neutrino scan we made from the Freestar just hours ago.'
It took Stillich a moment to work out that he was looking at a cross section of the Earth, deep below the granite raft of Manhattan, and the imperial bunker. And down there, swimming in the mantle, was a shape, perhaps organic, perhaps artificial, a winged shape like a stingray, like a sycamore seed. 'It isn't fully formed,' Flood said grimly. 'Not fully operational. But it soon will be.' Kale asked, 'What is it?'
'In the Friends' accounts of their dark future, there are hints of a race even more threatening to mankind than the occupiers of Earth from whom they fled. A race called—' his pronunciation was uncertain, 'Chee-lee, Zee-lee. They, or their potentialities, are lurking in the logic pool. And they are trying to break out.' 'How?' Kale snapped. 'By constructing this ship, deep in the Earth? How are they doing that?'
'We have no idea,' Flood said. 'Our only concern is to stop it, before this ship bursts from the Earth like a bird from its egg. This is a threat so potent it is trying to strike at us out of nothing more than of a statement of the logical possibility of its own existence.
Also, I think it is interesting too about Anti-Xeelee, device of Xeelee civilization:
Thanks to the logic pool Xeelee has showed up, that they only need a logical possibility of their existence, to come to be. I would even go little further and say that they can perform such a feat without the usage of the logic pool.
The situation showed to us in the Starfall is, in my opinion, very similar to how the AntiXeelee "was" created. In one of the branches in the configuration space there was a possibility that it came to be, and out of this possibility the AntiXeelee started to exist. By its own existence ( thank to it negative vector in time ) it has ensured, by taking care of the Xeelee projects, that it will be possible for it to be, in the first place. Given that it is based on quantum wave functions, the moment it will "start" to be, it will spread out through all possible configurations in the CS, or if we go with the "timeless" approach, it would be simply always present in all branches of the CS.
This is caused by the fact that quantum wave functions describe all possible histories of an object, that do exist simultaneously, at least in the abstract mathematical phase space. This is true in all interpretations of the quantum mechanics, and differences between this interpretations refer to just what does this exactly mean in a physical world.
And the logic pool, with its "I can exist simply because there was a possibility that something makes a logical statement that I can be" ads to this interpretation of the AntiXeelee additional evidence.
All credits goes to sufficient.
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Late response to this thread, but as far as I can remember, no. Hilbert space or infinite higher dimensions are never mentioned in the actual text. However, they should definitely be well within 1-B with tech, as the "stupendous" amount of dimensions thing is correct.Antvasima said:
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Small note though, I have no idea if the Xeelee can translate their 1-B universe making into actual firepower, though. If they could, they likely would have already mopped the floor with the Photino Birds, but they haven't. In fact, I'm pretty sure they're losing that engagement. Photino Birds embody all dark matter in the universe, and only seem to be able to be killed with gravity based weaponry. The Xeelee can do this, but still can't wipe them all out. The Photino Birds also war with the Xeelee by launching galaxies at them, which is crazy, but not something that either side would do if they could channel 1-B levels of power for combat purposes.
Of course, Photino Birds have dimensional manipulation and can move FTL naturally (which the Xeelee cannot without using time manipulation), but I don't recall them ever using anything close to 1-B levels of dimensional manipulation in an actual fight. Could be wrong, though. Been a while.
Of course, Photino Birds have dimensional manipulation and can move FTL naturally (which the Xeelee cannot without using time manipulation), but I don't recall them ever using anything close to 1-B levels of dimensional manipulation in an actual fight. Could be wrong, though. Been a while.
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I will, but first it would probably be best to also try and determine where we could rate their AP for practical combat purposes. Complete control of the space-time of multiple alternate universes/timelines without having to create them, as well as being the cause of cosmic inflation (iirc, infinite universes were also mentioned) should maybe but their practical AP around "At least 2-A, likely higher", I would assume. Though that would still make the Photino Bird thing an issue, but much less so, as I believe they can use dimensional manipulation on numerous alternate timelines, as well. Galaxies moving at relativistic speeds are still used as weapons against the Xeelee, but maybe that's more of a durability issue? Or maybe the Photino Birds' control of dark matter?
The page as a whole should also probably be heavily revamped, as it doesn't even really give you a hint as to what the Xeelee are, in its current state.
It would be helpful if there was someone else trustworthy who is familiar with Xeelee, or at least has read the source material more recently than I have.
The page as a whole should also probably be heavily revamped, as it doesn't even really give you a hint as to what the Xeelee are, in its current state.
It would be helpful if there was someone else trustworthy who is familiar with Xeelee, or at least has read the source material more recently than I have.
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Okay. I am afraid that the only Stephen Baxter books that I have read so far are the Long Earth series, so I am not of much help. You might be able to rescale the page as best as possible in the meantime though.
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I will do that, and if new info surfaces or someone comes forth, it would be of great help.Antvasima said:
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I have done some heavy editing to the Xeelee page, which will hopefully clear some things up as well as suffice for the time being. Let me know if it looks OK.
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Alright, good. If anyone more knowledgeable is able to add more information, then all the better.
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Well, no such thing, but Xeeleeverse have possiblity to have infinite dimensions in it since it seems to follow Level III Multiverse interpretation. The existence of Config Space ('stupendeous amount of dimensions') proves that.Antvasima said:
And IIRC it has been established that Xeeleverse have infinite universes/timelines in their Bulk, and since Xeeleeverse partly follows Level III Multiverse interpretation, Xeeleeverse had to have infinite dimensions for their multiverse to work because infinite number of timelines/universes needed infinite number of dimensions for them to be contained (Means Hibert Space).
So I think Xeelee (and Photino Birds) should be High 1-B at least.
Then there's Human faction which transcend dimensions entirely IMO and reside in no-spacetime 'place'.
well, actually there's high possiblity that Photino Birds are also somewhere around 1-B level like Xeelee. Because even Humans could do multiversal-scale reality warping at their leisure and they still consider Xeelee to be still above them.
Of course, Photino Birds have dimensional manipulation and can move FTL naturally (which the Xeelee cannot without using time manipulation), but I don't recall them ever using anything close to 1-B levels of dimensional manipulation in an actual fight. Could be wrong, though. Been a while.
that's because the story is told from human point of view. We only get detailed info of Xeelee, and that's just from human perspective to boot. IMO, Photino Birds should have same multiversal-warping ability like humans too, but they're too wrapped in mysteries.
Its Baxter's style, to always use human-point-of-view to tell stories. The result? Detailed info on human tech but less detailed info on alien tech.
As I said I think its rather logical to assume Xeeleeverse have infinite dimensions with Transcendence have qualitative superiority over dimensional structures entirely.
What do you guys think?
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Well, in Xeelee's case I don't even want to do any upgrade on them right now (too lazy to edit their page. hint: I haven't even fixed Downstreamers' page and haven't even finished Dark Tower upgrade that I proposed in the first place... so yeah... I really have to fix my habit of 'not following through' my upgrades.)
I just want to give my two cents on their cosmology (just to leave my opinions here... without acting on them) ... and about Transcendence faction... The quote above about 'time and space is irrelevant in Transcendence realm' should give them Infinite Speed at least. But eh? they don't even have any profile page yet unlike Xeelee...
I also don't want to make Transcendence page right now though mind you...
I just want to give my two cents on their cosmology (just to leave my opinions here... without acting on them) ... and about Transcendence faction... The quote above about 'time and space is irrelevant in Transcendence realm' should give them Infinite Speed at least. But eh? they don't even have any profile page yet unlike Xeelee...
I also don't want to make Transcendence page right now though mind you...
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Awesome
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Bump.
I think we should add 3-A or 2-C firepower for Starbreakers (basic weapons of Xeelee Nighfighters). These weapons are able to destroy stars but can pierce universal durability.
The reasons are:
https://forums.spacebattles.com/thr...-warhammer-nightbringer.382058/#post-21380676
https://forums.spacebattles.com/thr...ownstreamers-time.505820/page-3#post-33180652
"This is somehow correct, but not exactly. GUT era started at about 10^(-43)s and ended roughly at 10^(-36)s, after the big bang. So this is an epoch that is very, very, very close to the initial singularity, but it isn't this initial point. The XCM can withstand, without much of a scratch, being hit by small arms munition sized pellets of GUT mass energy, which is also why I have emphasised this "on a small area" part. And while this is very impressive, it isn't the same as being capable of withstanding being immersed in multiple big bangs, happening dozens of times per second ( from the internal observator frame of reference ), for God knows how long. All in all, while both the XCM and DCM has some insane durability, that one can even try to scale up to infinity using few of their properties ect. , the DCM has simply better showings."
"An Nightfighter is a part of the complex Xeelee ecology, that is a result of them living throught multiple phase changes during the history of the universe. It's cockpit is made out of the Xeelee Construction Material, that have rather unique properties. It's basically an reality warping material that breaks the Pauli exclusion principle, stating that no two fermions can be in the same quantum state, and is capable of perfect energy to mass conversion, meaning that all forms of energy attacts are completly harmless to it, as is will just made more of itself out of the energy in them. The only things that are known to destroy this material are Monopole canons, that fires zero dimensional deffects in space-time, colliding micro black holes, that has to be specifically micro, as normall ones horisons are the "places" where Nightfighters are made, and Starbreakers, which are also the main weapons of the Nighfighters. Nothing else, even big bang levels of energy density, as showed in the Excullant where GUT rifles rounds, that like the name says fire pellets of GUT mass-energy with energy density simillar to that during the first 10^(-36) s after the big bang, were bouncing out of it without any effect, was shown to damage it."
Xeelee Construct Material can withstand big bang level of energy, Star Breakers can destroy XCM.
So their basic weapons are on star level but can ignore universal durability.
I think we should add 3-A or 2-C firepower for Starbreakers (basic weapons of Xeelee Nighfighters). These weapons are able to destroy stars but can pierce universal durability.
The reasons are:
https://forums.spacebattles.com/thr...-warhammer-nightbringer.382058/#post-21380676
https://forums.spacebattles.com/thr...ownstreamers-time.505820/page-3#post-33180652
"This is somehow correct, but not exactly. GUT era started at about 10^(-43)s and ended roughly at 10^(-36)s, after the big bang. So this is an epoch that is very, very, very close to the initial singularity, but it isn't this initial point. The XCM can withstand, without much of a scratch, being hit by small arms munition sized pellets of GUT mass energy, which is also why I have emphasised this "on a small area" part. And while this is very impressive, it isn't the same as being capable of withstanding being immersed in multiple big bangs, happening dozens of times per second ( from the internal observator frame of reference ), for God knows how long. All in all, while both the XCM and DCM has some insane durability, that one can even try to scale up to infinity using few of their properties ect. , the DCM has simply better showings."
"An Nightfighter is a part of the complex Xeelee ecology, that is a result of them living throught multiple phase changes during the history of the universe. It's cockpit is made out of the Xeelee Construction Material, that have rather unique properties. It's basically an reality warping material that breaks the Pauli exclusion principle, stating that no two fermions can be in the same quantum state, and is capable of perfect energy to mass conversion, meaning that all forms of energy attacts are completly harmless to it, as is will just made more of itself out of the energy in them. The only things that are known to destroy this material are Monopole canons, that fires zero dimensional deffects in space-time, colliding micro black holes, that has to be specifically micro, as normall ones horisons are the "places" where Nightfighters are made, and Starbreakers, which are also the main weapons of the Nighfighters. Nothing else, even big bang levels of energy density, as showed in the Excullant where GUT rifles rounds, that like the name says fire pellets of GUT mass-energy with energy density simillar to that during the first 10^(-36) s after the big bang, were bouncing out of it without any effect, was shown to damage it."
Xeelee Construct Material can withstand big bang level of energy, Star Breakers can destroy XCM.
So their basic weapons are on star level but can ignore universal durability.
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What about Monads? They are the most powerful force/supercivilization/gods of Xeelee verse. And they create dimensional cosmos from "primitive chaos".
For the inhabitants of this new cosmos, it began with a singularity: a moment when time began,
when space was born. But for the monads, as their chaotic Ur-reality froze out once more into a
rigid smoothness, the singularity was an end: for them, the story was already over. Encased in
orderly, frozen spacetime, they would slumber through the long ages, until this universe in turn
grew old and spawned new fragments of chaos, and they could wake again.
But all that lay far in the future.
There was a breathless instant. The sword toppled. Time flowed, like water gushing from a tap.
History began.
The balancing sword tipped and fell. The primordial simplicity of the new universe was lost.
From the broken symmetry of a once-unified physics, two forces emerged: gravity, and a force
humans would call the GUT force—"GUT" for Grand Unified Theory, a combination of
electromagnetic and nuclear forces. The separating-out of the forces was a phase change, like
water freezing to ice, and it released energy that immediately fed the expansion of the seedling
universe.
Gravity's fist immediately clenched, crushing knots of energy and matter into black holes. It was
in the black holes' paradoxical hearts that the sleeping monads huddled. But the black holes were
embedded in a new, unfolding spacetime: three dimensions of space and one of time, an orderly
structure that congealed quickly out of the primitive chaos.
-Exultant
For the inhabitants of this new cosmos, it began with a singularity: a moment when time began,
when space was born. But for the monads, as their chaotic Ur-reality froze out once more into a
rigid smoothness, the singularity was an end: for them, the story was already over. Encased in
orderly, frozen spacetime, they would slumber through the long ages, until this universe in turn
grew old and spawned new fragments of chaos, and they could wake again.
But all that lay far in the future.
There was a breathless instant. The sword toppled. Time flowed, like water gushing from a tap.
History began.
The balancing sword tipped and fell. The primordial simplicity of the new universe was lost.
From the broken symmetry of a once-unified physics, two forces emerged: gravity, and a force
humans would call the GUT force—"GUT" for Grand Unified Theory, a combination of
electromagnetic and nuclear forces. The separating-out of the forces was a phase change, like
water freezing to ice, and it released energy that immediately fed the expansion of the seedling
universe.
Gravity's fist immediately clenched, crushing knots of energy and matter into black holes. It was
in the black holes' paradoxical hearts that the sleeping monads huddled. But the black holes were
embedded in a new, unfolding spacetime: three dimensions of space and one of time, an orderly
structure that congealed quickly out of the primitive chaos.
-Exultant
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