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X-Men: No More Humans (Dragon Ball)

Anyway, i'll unfollow the thread since this revision will probably take weeks to be approved by staff.
 
What're the agreed upon arguments again? Do the Earthlings upscale from the Supreme Kai through Kachi Katchin, or are they an unknown amount stronger than their Z selves, with Krillin downscaling from Android 18?
 
I'd say so but Vizer diagrees, you'll likely need to read our arguments to determine where you stand
 
Nullflowerblush said:
What're the agreed upon arguments again? Do the Earthlings upscale from the Supreme Kai through Kachi Katchin, or are they an unknown amount stronger than their Z selves, with Krillin downscaling from Android 18?
Click to expand...
We know that Kachi Katchin is unquantifiably stronger than regular Katchin, which is stronger than a rock from the Kaioshin Planet.

Roshi scales above Tien Shinhan, so they're both 5-B.

Krillin downscales from Android 18, so they're both 4-C+.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
The likes of Krillin, Tien Shinhan, and Master Roshi during the Universe Survival Saga share a rating of At least High 4-C and Massively FTL+.

This is on the grounds that the three characters were capable of completely destroying chunks of the Tournament of Power arena, which is made up of Kachi Katchin, the strongest metal in the entire world, thus meaning they upscale from mid-Buu Saga Gohan, who failed to slice a block of normal Katchin in half with the Z-Sword.

Two problems...
  1. In regards to scaling to Gohan and the Z-Sword itself, not only was Gohan lax with his swing, confident that the Z-Sword could slice through anything, but the Z-Sword itself was overpowered by the block of Katchin, which is explicitly confirmed by the Daizenshuu 7 (1) (2) thrice over. The Z-Sword is weak.
  2. In regards to scaling above Gohan, in "The Artisans Who Made the Universe Survival Arc of Dragon Ball Super, Now Reaching Its Climax", an article on the Dragon Ball Official Site, Dragon Ball Super series director Ryōta Nakamura stated "...I intended on putting more effort into the warriors like the Turtle Hermit or Kuririn, the ones who at first made you ask “why’d they bring these guys along?” Because Toriyama-sensei selected them. If he was just looking for battle power, then he would have only brought along people who could go Super Saiyan, like Goten or Trunks. I think Toriyama-sensei went out of his way to select those people as a way of telling us to have fights that would put them to good use, rather than simply having characters win by going Super Saiyan." Goten and Trunks are notorious slackers, even putting aside their training during the three-year period between Broly and Super Hero to such a degree that Goten claimed to have forgotten how to fuse properly. Super Saiyan Goten and Trunks being High 4-C puts a wrench in Krillin, Tien, and Roshi being anywhere near the tier. Hell, Nakamura even exclaimed that the two Saiyans could have overcome any skill gap that the humans needed to create between themselves and their opponents by powering up, suggesting that their Super Saiyan forms are leagues above the likes of the humans.
Because of this, the humans should be downgraded from the level of Buu Saga high-tiers.
What happens after?
Click to expand...
Hm I read the scans and all it says is that the z sword got broken by the katchin it never calls it weak
 
"However, in reality, it wasn't that it had strong attack power, but that the Elder Kai that was sealed in the sword would power up."
 
But I disagree because when characters use weapons like swords they wrap their ki around it and make it stronger like Trunks for example
 
godofice said:
But I disagree because when characters use weapons like swords they wrap their ki around it and make it stronger like Trunks for example
Click to expand...
Never implied. King Cold insinuates that the blade itself was capable of defeating Frieza, not Trunks, and the Daizenshuu 7 confirms that his sword was refined to such a degree that its blade could slice through Frieza and that "[its] true power is utilized by holding it with both hands". Even if channeling Ki into one's blade was a precedence set by the series, again, Gohan took the situation very nonchalantly. The entire time, he had a very casual swing in mind, having been convinced that the Z-Sword could cut through anything in the world, as was the Supreme Kai.

Also, DRAGON BALL FOREVER confirms that the Z-Sword is not sharp.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Never implied. King Cold insinuates that the blade itself was capable of defeating Frieza, not Trunks, and the Daizenshuu 7 confirms that his sword was refined to such a degree that its blade could slice through Frieza and that "[its] true power is utilized by holding it with both hands". Even if channeling Ki into one's blade was a precedence set by the series, again, Gohan took the situation very nonchalantly. The entire time, he had a very casual swing in mind, having been convinced that the Z-Sword could cut through anything in the world, as was the Supreme Kai.

Also, DRAGON BALL FOREVER confirms that the Z-Sword is not sharp.
Click to expand...
In the episode King Cold’s theory was wrong and realized it wasn’t the sword’s power and Trunks easily grabbed the sword when King cold tried to hurt him with it and then killed him and the message just makes it seem like since it was more polished it was easier to cut through Frieza instantly
 
godofice said:
But I disagree because when characters use weapons like swords they wrap their ki around it and make it stronger like Trunks for example
Click to expand...
That's true, but Gohan was explicitly swinging the Z-Sword very casually since he believed it would easily cut through the Kachin object.
 
Vizer04 said:
That's true, but Gohan was explicitly swinging the Z-Sword very casually since he believed it would easily cut through the Kachin object.
Click to expand...
He was still putting force into it if the average 5th grader swung a sword it’d most likely be weaker than if I swung a sword especially someone like Gohan who has like Star level AP in base
 
godofice said:
He was still putting force into it if the average 5th grader swung a sword it’d most likely be weaker than if I swung a sword especially someone like Gohan who has like Star level AP in base
Click to expand...
You don't have proof that he was using his full strenght, he was swinging the sword very casually.
 
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