Wuthering Waves Discussion Thread

[SweetDao]

Also Jinhsi reverses time in the new event...considering what we know regarding the 2nd temporal program she had before taking Jue's temporal mandate. I think we can use this event to give her time rewinding funnily enough

yeah obviously, that's obvious and really straightforward (will take 3 months to get accepted)

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I mean, I wouldn't say that I'm going "out of my way", I'm just searching for "proof" rather than "well, it exists, therefore it is like this". I'm the kind of person who largely prefers some tangible evidence rather than just "arguing in the gap".

Again, if, for example, we have a verse like DB, with Goku and Beerus fighting in outer space (or close to it, idk BoG was kinda wack with distance), we don't need an explanation that the stars are real, because it's inferred by a whole tons of stuff, including direct mention of them (surely?).

When we get into pocket reality or "non-normal universe/reality", it's normal for me not to jump to a conclusion by mere visuals. I think a simple mention of the background would infinitely help with making the case more real. Like, I don't USE THAT ARGUMENT, I want to be clear with that, but you should probably understand that most of the time, the presence of starry skies/sun/moon in the background is more related to the developers not wanting a big empty place as a skybox. In my opinion, if the sun that is portrayed in the background isn't mentioned at all, it might as well not exist from a scaling perspective.

Ig, my opinion on this remains largely unchanged

I wouldn't call it vibe checking, but more so "wanting some tangible proof it exists". Obviously, some stuff you mention is also problematic, but sometimes Outliers exist (we may agree or disagree with that notion), but also, most of the time, those problems arise because the authors don't "see the strength of the character as we see it".

Just so we're clear. If the context makes it clear, there is no need for a mention of those stars. For example, if the MC is fighting the god of the verse that created the universe and said God created a miniature realm with stars, yeah, it's infinitely more likely to assume they are a realm than just "background decoration".

Idk man, the topic we're discussing and the contents of said topic make it seem very much like you wouldn't agree regarding the bolded part, at least from my perspective but alright

Again, I understand you don't want to dabble too much, but why, exactly, would the random Sonoro Sphere not "be tier 4" if they also have the sun? I'm not asking this to be redundant or annoying; I legit want to understand why you make that differentiation.

Right now, the only difference you're telling me (in this message) is "training sonoro are artificial, but Cristoforo is done via his forte, so that's different", okay, sure, if you want, but what does that different entails exist?

The differentiation is made in the very text you used regarding Phrolova's beyond, it is confirmed that in order to sustain realms you need a sufficient amount of resonance energy to do so. It's really that simple, artificial sonoro's are smaller in size and scope precisely because (as far as we know) there is no one to provide the energy to allow them to sustain their space

Okay. Maybe I didn't explain too much.

The sky IS real. What we see ON IT (moon, sun, weird ass constellations) is projected and therefore NOT REAL. It's like a hologram, a drawing, whatever.

Yes, I agree that the moon and the stars, galaxies and Rover's homeworld STILL VERY MUCH EXIST BEYOND THE ETHERIC SEA.

BUT that wasn't my point of contention. My point is that WHY would Cristoforo (who is remaking the PRESENT Septimont, who is UNDER THE ETHERIC SEA, who projects FAKE STUFF) replicate not the FAKE STUFF PROJECTED ON THE SKY but the REAL STARS AND SUN BEYOND THE SEA THAT HE CAN'T SEE.

I just want to be clear so there's no ambiguity. When I say "fake stuff", I'M NOT SAYING THAT THE STARS OR THE MOON DOESN'T EXIST BEYOND THE ETHERIC SEA. I'm just saying that WHAT WE SEE ON IT, THEIR REPRESENTATION, IS NOT THE REAL THING AND THEREFORE FAKE. It's like I projected a starry sky on my ceiling, the starry sky COULD exist beyond our planet, but MY CEILING wouldn't be Multi-SS because that's just an image.

I figured you'd use that analogy, but well yeah glad that's cleared up because people on the internet are very quick to take what others say at face value and ride with it. I wanted that to be very clear, in an attempt to prevent that from happening in our discussion

You didn't tackle Phrolova's case. What are your thoughts on it?

Not sure what you're expecting, I have nothing to add there really. I didn't tackle it in an attempt to not sidetrack us from the main topic of Cristoforo

Man you can't say that... That's such an unfunny ending to me...

I didn't really know what else to add, I mean, that is just a standard thing atp. Maybe you might want to revise that as well, idk

Did it say that he absorbed "the page itself" ? Because from what I recall and from the few quotes I sent, it seems more about absorbing Septimont inside those pages than "the page itself". I mean, doesn't it indirectly say the page still exists and "bleed" into one another due to the overlap?

No, I just wrote it that way so it can be better understood. I mean, it's never verbatim stated that "Leviathan absorbs the page itself" but it is stated (and shown) that every page constitutes a story/realm. In which case, it's a simple line of logic to reach the conclusion that...Leviathan absorbs the "pages" (realms)

I agree with you that everything in the verse has frequency. Similarly, I don't think your point is that bad either, but I still think there are serious issues with seeing it like that. If you assume that each time he "ate" a story/world, he ate "4-C" worth of energy, and assuming we go on with "countless = millions" then you're arguing for Leviathan to be... idk, welll into Multi-SS level if not higher. Meaning that Phoebe would be Multi-SS too, and it would probably chainscale a lot of characters if not everyone.

It wouldn't actually, because again. Leviathan lost all of this energy after it's fight, being generous you scale this to only Lupa tier fighters (and that is NOT Phoebe) there is also the added fact that Mya was fighting against Leviathan's hold during her and Lupa's fight. Cliche as it is, typical anime like stuff

Sure, but Avidius "still technically" had some importance in the plot. It's not like he's a random NPC that has one line of dialogue or no relevance.

I mean yeah man, if you're an Avidius fan I wasn't trying to anger you or anything. He's cool, but what he achieves is next to nothing, certainly not an equivalent exchange of the amount of energy it would have taken Cristoforo to create his body, mind, soul, frequency and going through all the effort of writing his beginning and ending as well as crafting his memories and experiences

My point was more about "sustaining a sonoro sphere and making it a reality" needs a lot of energy, like a lot LOT, as Phrolova explained. If Phrolova is already struggling with merely "a village worth of size and people", imagine Cristoforo recreating every single NPC, buildings, places AND the sun/moon. That isn't tenable. Sure, technically, you could say the Sonoro isn't instantiated in reality until he does so, but I think the point still stands that it needs a lot of energy.

Yeah, it needs a lot of energy

Well, "exist" I don't know. I depends on what you exactly mean by "exist". Do they exist in the Sonoro sphere? Yes, they probably exist as some sort of overlapping dimensions. Do they exist "in reality" ? Not until Cristoforo instantiate them in it.

I meant exist in his sonoro...doesn't matter if they exist in reality or not. He brings them from his sonoro into reality to begin with

My point is that any lament and any threnodian is "world-ending" crisis potential. When Geshu Lin fought it (and it was the true one, I think?) it didn't directly blow up the planet either.

Yeah they are, whether Geshu Lin fought the real Ovathrax or just one of those orb like manifestations of it is unknown

I'm not sure I understood what you meant by the retroact rain/Etheric Sea and the link to Ovathrax?

I'm just saying it's potential is directly correlated to it's waveworn phenomena. As is the case with all Threnodians

Did it? I don't remember. Because, from what I recall, while they did "avoid" the worst, the dark tide still very much got fed a lot, hence why, following up, there was the plot with the Journeying Paradise starting to appear more and more.

Yes, Leviathan's frequency was literally erased during the fight. It was reborn through the gem, neither the dark tide nor Leviathan itself received much of that power from 2.4. Otherwise, there would be no reason for them to constantly refer to it as "a fragment" of itself if it's strength was closer to it's fully powered state...it wouldn't be a fragment of its own power

This is fair yeah, but I meant the "physical location of it". It would first appear "in Septimont," then would expand to Ragunna and such.

Sure, but my point is that it's a progressive process, not instantaneous.

Well yeah, it's not an instantaneous thing. Anyways I think we've gotten our points across, we can agree to disagree or whatever, I'll leave it there, I'm tired

 

[SweetDao]

Idk man, the topic we're discussing and the contents of said topic make it seem very much like you wouldn't agree regarding the bolded part, at least from my perspective but alright

I mean, with sufficient backup, be it "direct context" or "indirect background description", both would be fine. It's in the case of "nothing is acknowledged nor explained at any point in time by anyone or anything". Again, it might as well just not exist.

The differentiation is made in the very text you used regarding Phrolova's beyond, it is confirmed that in order to sustain realms you need a sufficient amount of resonance energy to do so. It's really that simple, artificial sonoro's are smaller in size and scope precisely because (as far as we know) there is no one to provide the energy to allow them to sustain their space

Obviously, but Sonoro Sphere, like Phrolova's Beyond, should also fall into "artificial" no? Isn't "artificial" here meant as "man-created/not natural"? It should also be the same with Cristoforo.

I figured you'd use that analogy, but well yeah glad that's cleared up because people on the internet are very quick to take what others say at face value and ride with it. I wanted that to be very clear, in an attempt to prevent that from happening in our discussion

Yeah, maybe I didn't explain myself well enough lol, no worries.

No, I just wrote it that way so it can be better understood. I mean, it's never verbatim stated that "Leviathan absorbs the page itself" but it is stated (and shown) that every page constitutes a story/realm. In which case, it's a simple line of logic to reach the conclusion that...Leviathan absorbs the "pages" (realms)

Oh yeah, that much is fine then, sure.

It wouldn't actually, because again. Leviathan lost all of this energy after it's fight, being generous you scale this to only Lupa tier fighters (and that is NOT Phoebe) there is also the added fact that Mya was fighting against Leviathan's hold during her and Lupa's fight. Cliche as it is, typical anime like stuff

"After the fight"? Which fight are you referring to here, the one during Cristoforo's Arc or the Finale? I'm a bit confused here.

I mean yeah man, if you're an Avidius fan I wasn't trying to anger you or anything. He's cool, but what he achieves is next to nothing, certainly not an equivalent exchange of the amount of energy it would have taken Cristoforo to create his body, mind, soul, frequency and going through all the effort of writing his beginning and ending as well as crafting his memories and experiences

Oh no, not at all lol, I like the character but my point is that, from what I recall, he was used as a catalyst for the dark tide no? This is why he suddenly transformed into a boss iirc. But you can correct me if I'm wrong, I don't remember exactly.

Yes, Leviathan's frequency was literally erased during the fight. It was reborn through the gem, neither the dark tide nor Leviathan itself received much of that power from 2.4. Otherwise, there would be no reason for them to constantly refer to it as "a fragment" of itself if it's strength was closer to it's fully powered state...it wouldn't be a fragment of its own power

Are you sure about this? Because in the aftermath of the quest, we get these lines from Carthy:

Cartethyia: The Threnodian's frequency has vanished from Septimont, but I fear this is far from over.
Cartethyia: There is something else. Perhaps due to the Dark Tide in the Sonoro, I can feel my balance shifting... The Threnodian's pull is growing stronger.

And I would assume it's not talking about the Gem, but I can't prove it, especially when I don't remember the timeline exactly.

Well yeah, it's not an instantaneous thing. Anyways I think we've gotten our points across, we can agree to disagree or whatever, I'll leave it there, I'm tired

fair lol, my bad for having take up your time sir

 

[Mbpoops]

Sweet dihao

 

[SweetDao]

Sweet dihao

ya

 

[Mbpoops]

ya

Nothing just felt like saying that

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I mean, with sufficient backup, be it "direct context" or "indirect background description", both would be fine. It's in the case of "nothing is acknowledged nor explained at any point in time by anyone or anything". Again, it might as well just not exist.

Ig

Obviously, but Sonoro Sphere, like Phrolova's Beyond, should also fall into "artificial" no? Isn't "artificial" here meant as "man-created/not natural"? It should also be the same with Cristoforo.

Artificial as in, not constructed directly from a resonance ability/forte. That is my own personal definition in differentiating the two, I never made that clear before, my bad

"After the fight"? Which fight are you referring to here, the one during Cristoforo's Arc or the Finale? I'm a bit confused here.

During 2.4

Oh no, not at all lol, I like the character but my point is that, from what I recall, he was used as a catalyst for the dark tide no? This is why he suddenly transformed into a boss iirc. But you can correct me if I'm wrong, I don't remember exactly.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, Cristoforo gave Avidius the potential to "outrun his fate", which...he sort of did, just not fully ofc since he still died. I don't think Avidius as a catalyst of the dark tide was something that would've had any major impact on the grand narrative even if it hadn't happened, basically

Are you sure about this? Because in the aftermath of the quest, we get these lines from Carthy:

And I would assume it's not talking about the Gem, but I can't prove it, especially when I don't remember the timeline exactly.

It's not, tad confusing but this is something I plan to put out more clearly once I make Leviathan's page. The DT is an aspect of Leviathan, she was referring to that. It's more like a pure embodiment of them based off what we know, and it's capable of acting even without their input and it instinctively tries to do things in favor of them, like "revive" them. Which is why Leviathan came back in 2.6, well as I said it's a bit confusing I'm not really trying to go super in depth here, but it'll be made clearer once I have Leviathan's blog outlined at least

fair lol, my bad for having take up your time sir

Nah it's fine, my time ain't worth much breh. I just don't really feel like replying much to this when we have a pretty firm idea of whatever it is we're arguing here, plus there's a lot I'm working on besides wuwa

 

[SweetDao]

Nah it's fine, my time ain't worth much breh. I just don't really feel like replying much to this when we have a pretty firm idea of whatever it is we're arguing here, plus there's a lot I'm working on besides wuwa

In any case, don't worry, I don't plan to do anything really, I think that despite the divergence of opinions, you still do a massively good job at making the profiles. Unless something blatant like "Cristoforo saying he can't do more than a house-sized pocket reality", I think we're good. (and if that was the case, you would surely tackle it yourself)

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Yeah well, as the game progresses and more ridiculous stuff gets added opinions will naturally be divided. I just finished blocking someone for asking me why I don't scale the verse to outer

 

[SweetDao]

Yeah well, as the game progresses and more ridiculous stuff gets added opinions will naturally be divided. I just finished blocking someone for asking me why I don't scale the verse to outer

You find some peculiar specimen sir...

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Someone somehow found out who I was offsite, even though I try to keep the two separate to the best of my ability

 

[Mbpoops]

Someone somehow found out who I was offsite, even though I try to keep the two separate to the best of my ability

What hax would that give them info analysis?

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Ig

 

[Mbpoops]

Ig

Im sorry

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

What?

 

[Mbpoops]

John bloodborne vs wuwa tier 5s

 

[Shiraito983]

chill

 

[Shiraito983]

here is my upcoming upgrade, need some thoughts here

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Shiraito983/rover_haxs

 

[SweetDao]

here is my upcoming upgrade, need some thoughts here

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Shiraito983/rover_haxs

I'm not sure if the last line is correct. Why would simply absorbing a frequency give him a higher level of time stop?

 

[Shiraito983]

I'm not sure if the last line is correct. Why would simply absorbing a frequency give him a higher level of time stop?

prolly would give him the same ability as he did in general cases

 

[SweetDao]

prolly would give him the same ability as he did in general cases

I see

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I'm not sure if the last line is correct. Why would simply absorbing a frequency give him a higher level of time stop?

Wdym? By absorbing Sigillum's frequency he gains Sigillum's P&A's, so he should absolutely get all of Sigillum's abilities after the fact

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Anyways, since there are only three things, I'm fine with it. Let us know if you add anything else though

 

[SweetDao]

Wdym? By absorbing Sigillum's frequency he gains Sigillum's P&A's, so he should absolutely get all of Sigillum's abilities after the fact

I mean, I understand the logic, but where does it come from? Is it related to something like "He absorbed Carthe's frequency, and he got aero power, so it should work like that every time"? Does that mean he also gets Carthe's and dreamless P&A, too? (Well, idk if there is anything worth in the latter one but you get the idea)

 

[Bsk_lyree]

I mean, I understand the logic, but where does it come from? Is it related to something like "He absorbed Carthe's frequency, and he got aero power, so it should work like that every time"? Does that mean he also gets Carthe's and dreamless P&A, too? (Well, idk if there is anything worth in the latter one but you get the idea)

Cartethyia absorbed by the rover is a fragment of the original Cartethyia, and it is only a small portion of imperator space-splitting power. So, literally, the rover doesn't get all of Cartethyia ability

 

[SweetDao]

Cartethyia absorbed by the rover is a fragment of the original Cartethyia, and it is only a small portion of imperator space-splitting power. So, literally, the rover doesn't get all of Cartethyia ability

Hmm, ig that works, probably

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I mean, I understand the logic, but where does it come from? Is it related to something like "He absorbed Carthe's frequency, and he got aero power, so it should work like that every time"? Does that mean he also gets Carthe's and dreamless P&A, too? (Well, idk if there is anything worth in the latter one but you get the idea)

Not just Cartethyia, but even Cristoforo with Leviathan's power of assimilation. Rover already has done this with Dreamless which gave him access to his havoc form, Leviathan itself uses everyone's powers in 2.7 because of this as well

 

[SweetDao]

Not just Cartethyia, but even Cristoforo with Leviathan's power of assimilation. Rover already has done this with Dreamless which gave him access to his havoc form, Leviathan itself uses everyone's powers in 2.7 because of this as well

That does make sense then yeah

 

[Shiraito983]

ill prob skim some minor addition before posting it

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

ill prob skim some minor addition before posting it

Are you gonna make it a CRT?

 

[Shiraito983]

When I collect decent amount ye

Are you gonna make it a CRT?

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

When I collect decent amount ye

Alr, lmk when you do. I'll give you some minor stuff to add to it (that I have kinda had hanging around)

 

[SweetDao]

Man, I just noticed we had a bunch of blogs for everything (physiology, specific manipulation etc), kinda insane

 

[Bsk_lyree]

Man, I just noticed we had a bunch of blogs for everything (physiology, specific manipulation etc), kinda insane

Tbh. This verse is quite complex

 

[SweetDao]

Tbh. This verse is quite complex

I was more impressed by the work people have put, I didn't notice since blog are mostly harder to find rather than profiles

 

[Shiraito983]

do u think we can get a better speed feat from Point Blanc gun shot by GA
spoiler

 

[IStar0thh]

do u think we can get a better speed feat from Point Blanc gun shot by GA
spoiler

I don’t think that would be a better feat, but it would still be worth adding to the calculations page ig

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

do u think we can get a better speed feat from Point Blanc gun shot by GA
spoiler

Considering he's sub rela+, no not really. Also that kinda feat would still be below Chixia's lightning dodge if I'm not mistaken

 

[Bsk_lyree]

Is the case of aleph-1 and voidspace the same as the case of black holes in Interstellar?

 

[FormidableLoris348]

I found a video that shows more precisely the size of the moon broken by Sigillum.