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Worlogog (Post-Crisis) revision

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Saksham_Gopal said:
Proposed Tier: Atleast Low 2-C (Hourman stops and freezes a big bang for all eternity), 2-A (Worlogog made Extant more powerful than Doctor Fate. In wrong hands, Worlogog could reshape creation. It is called the map of all time and space) Probably Low 1-C to 1-C (Worlogog is a 4th world artifact and possibly stands on the same level by transcending time and space. With this Extant ended Timestream prematurely. Timestream exists beyond the laws of time and space and views all DCU timelines as discrete entities)
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Ant the 2A could prolly still be 2A even if the doctor fate stuff get's removed.
 
Reshaping 52 universes is just 2-C on its own though.
 
The universes in post crisis are infinite actually. It mainly deals with infinite universes than even pre and post flashpoint and rebirth tbh.
 
Antvasima said:
Reshaping 52 universes is just 2-C on its own though.
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As Teezar stated about infinite universes in the post-crisis era. That's why Dominus was able to show the madness of infinite universes to Superman. But, to return to the topic at hand, I stated that it should be considered for Low 1-C because the Worlogog terminated the timestream prematurely. This is a direct feat that should validate the tier listed on the DC Cosmology explanation blog.
Position of Timestream in DC Cosmology

Doctor Fate faced Mordru before facing Extant and proved to be on par with him. Fate's power level varies widely, therefore scaling him must be done carefully. I even looked at Sandman's Fate revision thread, but it never came to a conclusion about his downgrade. Hector Hall is still classified as a 2B entity and Lord of Chaos like Dominus and Mordru are being treated as 2A. One thing to note is that Mordru was very powerful at the time he fought Fate Hector Hall because he was hunting down the Lord of Orders.
Mordru hunting down Lord of Orders



Dominus, the Lord of Chaos, is capable of manipulating endless universes at command, and Mordru is the most powerful of them all.
Hector Hall fate is 2B
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Mordru
To be honest, I find Doctor Fate's scaling to be somewhat strange. I'll try to write a blog about his power levels as soon as my reading of Fate appearances is finished this month.
 
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Teezar said:
The universes in post crisis are infinite actually. It mainly deals with infinite universes than even pre and post flashpoint and rebirth tbh.
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Well, I am aware of that Multiversity established that there were an infinite amount of sets of 52 universes, but unless they are explicitly referred to, we cannot assume a 2-A scale.
 
Saksham_Gopal said:
As Teezar stated about infinite universes in the post-crisis era. That's why Dominus was able to show the madness of infinite universes to Superman. But, to return to the topic at hand, I stated that it should be considered for Low 1-C because the Worlogog terminated the timestream prematurely. This is a direct feat that should validate the tier listed on the DC Cosmology explanation blog.
Position of Timestream in DC Cosmology

Doctor Fate faced Mordru before facing Extant and proved to be on par with him. Fate's power level varies widely, therefore scaling him must be done carefully. I even looked at Sandman's Fate revision thread, but it never came to a conclusion about his downgrade. Hector Hall is still classified as a 2B entity and Lord of Chaos like Dominus and Mordru are being treated as 2A. One thing to note is that Mordru was very powerful at the time he fought Fate Hector Hall because he was hunting down the Lord of Orders.
Mordru hunting down Lord of Orders

Dominus, the Lord of Chaos, is capable of manipulating endless universes at command, and Mordru is the most powerful of them all.
Hector Hall fate is 2B
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Mordru
To be honest, I find Doctor Fate's scaling to be somewhat strange. I'll try to write a blog about his power levels as soon as my reading of Fate appearances is finished this month.
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I don't think that Dominus was able to create, warp, or destroy infinite timelines simultaneously.
 
Antvasima said:
I don't think that Dominus was able to create, warp, or destroy infinite timelines simultaneously.
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That information came from the Mordru website. If what you say is correct, many of the pages will need to be rewritten. But for now, I'm not qualified to comment on Dominus because I haven't read his arc.
 
Yes. Agreed. Thank you for being reasonable.
 
Well, the problem is that "all" time and space tends to be referred to in incoherent manners in superhero stories. It can mean anything from Low 2-C to 1-A, depending on the writer, story, and era.
 
All in time and space in creation bro.
This definitely caps at realms with time and space, and only the infinite amount of universes contain time and space in post crisis.
 
Well, the problem is that post-Crisis, including during the time when the Worlogog was first introduced, there was initially just a single universe in DC Comics, and then after 52/Countdown there were 52 of them for several years, until an infinite amount were introduced during the Multiversity event, and we cannot scale retroactively for a constantly shifting cosmology.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, the problem is that post-Crisis, including during the time when the Worlogog was first introduced, there was initially just a single universe in DC Comics, and then after 52/Countdown there were 52 of them for several years, until an infinite amount were introduced during the Multiversity event, and we cannot scale retroactively for a constantly shifting cosmology.
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I'm sure the infinite universes came immediately after pre crisis multiverse only quoted the 52 universes are known as local multiverse.
 
That is not how things work, especially given the Doomsday Clock established that the number of universes genuinely differed from era to era. We cannot use retroactive continuity for an object that originally simply referred to controlling the spacetime of a single universe.
 
Antvasima said:
That is not how things work, especially given the Doomsday Clock established that the number of universes genuinely differed from era to era. We cannot use retroactive continuity for an object that originally simply referred to controlling the spacetime of a single universe.
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But it was consistently shown to be infinite throughout post crisis and later shown to be more before and during doomsday and the multiverse was called a metaverse.

Post crisis later explained the concept of the local multiverse in multiversity but I just need to know what era Is this post crisis did this worlogog concept happen or can possibly read every issue on it.
 
The Worlogog was introduced during Grant Morrison's JLA run, several years before 52 and Countdown happened. During this era, DC Comics officially only had a single universe.
 
52 had 52 universes bro even deagonx once used this to prove a point.
If you mean countdown to infinite crisis the universes then are infinite bro.
 
The point is that the officially cosmology has differed over time, which was confirmed in-story during the Doomsday Clock event. As such we cannot scale retroactively in this regard. Sorry.
 
Cool I'm gonna read the book then.
Saksham can I get the entire reading order of this worlogog arc.
 
Antvasima said:
The point is that the officially cosmology has differed over time, which was confirmed in-story during the Doomsday Clock event. As such we cannot scale retroactively in this regard. Sorry.
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Sorry I was busy for the last 2 days. So what you are proposing we can do here?
 
I suggest that we can only scale "control over space and time" to the time period in which the statement was said.
 
Antvasima said:
I suggest that we can only scale "control over space and time" to the time period in which the statement was said.
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Teezar said:
52 had 52 universes bro even deagonx once used this to prove a point.
If you mean countdown to infinite crisis the universes then are infinite bro.
Click to expand...
According to what Ant and Tez have revealed thus far, time and space cannot be used to scale Worlogog to higher levels because only one universe existed at the time, which was during Morrison's JLA era. At best, it will be in the low 2C range. But, in that case, Worlogog was first established in the Super Powers (1984) comics, which were published prior to the crisis. When the JLA arrived in the Sphere of Gods, they discovered Warlogog already there, and Metron revealed the item to the heroes as "a physical manifestation of space and time itself." One could argue that Metron meant it to be the "physical manifestation of space and time" for a single universe in order to balance it with the post-crisis continuity of only one universe (for example, many universes mean many pieces of Worlogog). But, if Sphere was unharmed by the crisis, and the Worlogog will be as well, how can it be the manifestation of time and space for both the Super Friends universe and the post-crisis reality, unless Metron intended it to be the manifestation for all space and time in the multiverse? That will be consistent with what Metron said during the JSA comic. Hourman didn't scatter the Worlogog in the different eras of the timeline but across the Multiverse. The Multiverse did exist during the post-crisis era Post Crisis Multiverse. Furthermore, Worlogog under Extant's hands proved to be more strong than Doctor Fate, who had no trouble defeating Mordru. Mordru was hunting down all known Lords of Orders across time at this moment in order to prevent the birth of a new Lord of Order, Doctor Fate. That indicates Mordru had plenty of time and power here, plus he wasn't at his most vulnerable. If we see featwise, Worlogog should be scaled higher than Hector Hall Fate which is 2C here on the wiki, and being a physical manifestation of time and space should warrant it a higher tier that vsbw sees fitting. If somebody objects, I believe we can close the thread and move on to adding abilities rather than modifying the tier.
 
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Also this doesn't affect this thread directly but I found something interesting. It might be possible that Worlogog is made up of Element X because Superman found Fire of the Gods that was Element X inside Metron's chair in the form of Calabi–Yau manifold and Worlogog manifest itself again as a Calabi–Yau manifold (this in between will match with what Metron said to the JLA about Warlogog being a key to beat Darkseid in the future. And surprisingly both JLA and Final Crisis was written by Morrison)

 
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Scaling from Doctor Fate might work, but the Grant Morrison JLA era apparently only had it control the time and space of a single universe.
 
Antvasima said:
Scaling from Doctor Fate might work, but the Grant Morrison JLA era apparently only had it control the time and space of a single universe.
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Then in that case it's better to close this thread by adding the abilities and scaling via fate as you said (if everyone is ok with that). It's going to be good to not extend the round argument.
 
I suppose that seems reasonable. What do the rest of you think?
 
Antvasima said:
Scaling from Doctor Fate might work, but the Grant Morrison JLA era apparently only had it control the time and space of a single universe.
Click to expand...
Saksham_Gopal said:
Then in that case it's better to close this thread by adding the abilities and scaling via fate as you said (if everyone is ok with that). It's going to be good to not extend the round argument.
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@Zensum @C2_of_Omegon @Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @LuciferDC099 @Newendigo @Ehnkr2beboh @Deagonx @Elizio33 @LordTracer @The_Impress @Planck69 @Confluctor

What do you think about this?
 
Yeah abilities are fine to add. Still not too sure about the rating, but eh. As long as the abilities are added because the file is empty right now.
 
Thank you for the reply.
 
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