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https://plus.google.com/u/0/117037561449220910591/posts/5T2adTR7oZQ
This here proves that Deathwing's Multiversal, if not Multiversal+.
This here proves that Deathwing's Multiversal, if not Multiversal+.
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World of Warcraft Revisions: Multiversal Deathwing
- Thread starter THE_TWISTING_CHAOS
- Start date
- Status
- 2,143
- 3,412
...heh?
- 11,444
- 1,997
Embodying past, present, and future is a Low 2-C feat, not a Multiversal one.
Also, telling us that Archimonde can destroy Draenor without telling us how big Draenor is for those of us who aren't aquainted with WoW (given that my exposure to the series is limited to Hearthstone and Heroes of the Storm) isn't doing you any favors, especially with that extremely vague and misleading title that I'm about to change.
Also, telling us that Archimonde can destroy Draenor without telling us how big Draenor is for those of us who aren't aquainted with WoW (given that my exposure to the series is limited to Hearthstone and Heroes of the Storm) isn't doing you any favors, especially with that extremely vague and misleading title that I'm about to change.
- 802
- 167
Archimonde > Dragon Aspects
- 312
- 43
This G+ page is written in a rather convoluted and difficult to follow way but I'll try my best to interpret the intentions of the author behind it correctly. If it seems that I'm misunderstanding the intentions of the writer then Chaos, please feel free to correct me.
"Freya created the Emerald Dream which is 4D and Deathwing was fine within it" - Let's say that we ignore the statement at the bottom of the linked page that states that Freya only shaped the Dream and didn't directly create it. The Emerald Dream would still be an etheral pocket dimension made to be a blueprint of the surface of the planet of Azeroth which is still directly connected to reality. In other words it's temporal dimension is not autonomous and exist along side the physical plane of the planet Azeroth. More importantly, as the Dream is a pocket dimension which is the size of several planet surfaces (who are also spiritual in nature making it really hard to quantify them), it would not scale Deathwing to multi-universal, even if Deathwing had fully destroyed it. I'm certain that the staff can explain why destroying pocket realities is not the equal to destroying normal ones better than I could.
I'm not sure what exactly are the intentions of the writer of the G+ page when he states that "Deathwing is fine within the Emerald Dream". If we assume that Deathwing is capable of entering the Dream, and he is (just like anyone else), then he should have no problem residing in it. Druids of all mortal races are capable of traversing the Dream and they are all absurdly inferior to Deathwing. Furthermore, the heroes of Azeroth entered the Emerald Nightmare (and with that the Emerald Dream) without any problems.
"Archimonde "seals" the Emerald Dream" - I don't understand what point is being made here exactly. As the linked page itself suggests Archimonde only further strengthened barriers that had already existed and were already capable of effectively sealing the palace from intangibles like Malfurion when he is in the Dream, albeit only to a certain extent.
"Nozdormu is all history and the essence of time" - This is just ornate language, as an Aspect Nozdormu is tasked with protecting Azeroth, which is the extent of his power which only extend to the point where he loses the blessing of the aspects and of course, not before he received it.
"Nozdormu held time together all by himself, Warcraft has infinite timelines" - An infinite number of Nozdormus are holding back the anomaly caused in time by the Old Gods. The reference page provided has Nozdormu making a clear distinction between his own self and the ones belonging to different timelines: "And most unsettling, through it all, he saw himself, himself in each moment of existence, stretching forth from almost the birth of time to beyond it's death. He might have taken heart from that save that every aspect of him was posed in the same contorted manner as he was. Every existence of him struggled to keep not just his world - but all of reality from collapsing into chaos" - keep in mind this is a massive hyperbole and the Warcraft hierarchy has been retconned since these novels were written with the importance of the Old Gods being greatly reduced.
"Krasus isn't an aspect but still a dragon thus logically weaker than the Aspects and he creates a space-time continuum while weakened" - Krasus created a small pocket dimension likely no larger than the cavern in which the blue dragon eggs were originally being kept. This once again falls under Pocket Reality Manipulation which is very far away from a Universal feat due to the insignificant size of the pocket dimension.
"Deathwing (aka corrupted Neltharion) > Alextrasza >= Neltharion > Nozdormu (> Krasus)" - True but they influence pocket dimensions as well as moments in time. These are not Multiversal feats.
"In and on Azeroth, there is Ulduar..." - Indeed but I don't see how this is related to Deathwing. Is it because the Second Cataclyms would have potentially threatened to destroy Ulduar and Freya along with it who possibly created the Emerald Dream pocket dimension?
"At 2:43 Ysera says that even the Emerald Dream trembles at Deathwing conjuring the Cataclysm, and at 3:08 she describes the power of that realm to be transcendant." - Is the author of the G+ page implying that by "transcendent" Ysera is referring to dimensional superiority? I think the writer is jumping to conclusions here. Ysera could be referring to a plethora of things here. Like the dream's mostly spiritual properties or the ability to effectively bestow immortality to those that reside within it. I can't really tell what Ysera is referring to in this case exactly.
"Archimonde can destroy Draenor - " This is just flavor text. If the intention of the devs was for Archimonde to have a planet destroying spell they would have made it a raid wipe mechanic, not a spell that you "dodge to the side" to avoid taking more damage.
More importantly Archimonde has been using Rain of Chaos since way back in Warcraft III. It would take millions if not billions of these infernals to even destroy the surface of a planet.
Lastly, Archimonde only uses his Rain of Chaos abilities during the final phase of the encounter. On mythic difficulty, which is the canon difficulty as far as story goes, Archimonde goes into the Twisting Nether and never uses the ability while on Draenor making the flavor text moot.
"Despite being weakened, Thrall could hurt Archimonde - " If anything this speaks poorly of Archimonde. To begin with, we don't know the exact extent of what this "hurt" was. If Thrall dealt damage which was equivalent to a slight pinching sensation then that would hardly put him in the same tier as Archimonde. Let's not forget that when going all out, Thrall was only capable of making a small cut in the ski of Mannoroth's leathery wing. Mannoroth who is vastly below Archimonde and fears him almost as much as he fear Sargeras.
TL
R - These are mostly Pocket Dimension Manipulation and Time Manipulation feats that are very hard to quantify properly. Scaling Deathwing to Multiversal from is absurd.
"Freya created the Emerald Dream which is 4D and Deathwing was fine within it" - Let's say that we ignore the statement at the bottom of the linked page that states that Freya only shaped the Dream and didn't directly create it. The Emerald Dream would still be an etheral pocket dimension made to be a blueprint of the surface of the planet of Azeroth which is still directly connected to reality. In other words it's temporal dimension is not autonomous and exist along side the physical plane of the planet Azeroth. More importantly, as the Dream is a pocket dimension which is the size of several planet surfaces (who are also spiritual in nature making it really hard to quantify them), it would not scale Deathwing to multi-universal, even if Deathwing had fully destroyed it. I'm certain that the staff can explain why destroying pocket realities is not the equal to destroying normal ones better than I could.
I'm not sure what exactly are the intentions of the writer of the G+ page when he states that "Deathwing is fine within the Emerald Dream". If we assume that Deathwing is capable of entering the Dream, and he is (just like anyone else), then he should have no problem residing in it. Druids of all mortal races are capable of traversing the Dream and they are all absurdly inferior to Deathwing. Furthermore, the heroes of Azeroth entered the Emerald Nightmare (and with that the Emerald Dream) without any problems.
"Archimonde "seals" the Emerald Dream" - I don't understand what point is being made here exactly. As the linked page itself suggests Archimonde only further strengthened barriers that had already existed and were already capable of effectively sealing the palace from intangibles like Malfurion when he is in the Dream, albeit only to a certain extent.
"Nozdormu is all history and the essence of time" - This is just ornate language, as an Aspect Nozdormu is tasked with protecting Azeroth, which is the extent of his power which only extend to the point where he loses the blessing of the aspects and of course, not before he received it.
"Nozdormu held time together all by himself, Warcraft has infinite timelines" - An infinite number of Nozdormus are holding back the anomaly caused in time by the Old Gods. The reference page provided has Nozdormu making a clear distinction between his own self and the ones belonging to different timelines: "And most unsettling, through it all, he saw himself, himself in each moment of existence, stretching forth from almost the birth of time to beyond it's death. He might have taken heart from that save that every aspect of him was posed in the same contorted manner as he was. Every existence of him struggled to keep not just his world - but all of reality from collapsing into chaos" - keep in mind this is a massive hyperbole and the Warcraft hierarchy has been retconned since these novels were written with the importance of the Old Gods being greatly reduced.
"Krasus isn't an aspect but still a dragon thus logically weaker than the Aspects and he creates a space-time continuum while weakened" - Krasus created a small pocket dimension likely no larger than the cavern in which the blue dragon eggs were originally being kept. This once again falls under Pocket Reality Manipulation which is very far away from a Universal feat due to the insignificant size of the pocket dimension.
"Deathwing (aka corrupted Neltharion) > Alextrasza >= Neltharion > Nozdormu (> Krasus)" - True but they influence pocket dimensions as well as moments in time. These are not Multiversal feats.
"In and on Azeroth, there is Ulduar..." - Indeed but I don't see how this is related to Deathwing. Is it because the Second Cataclyms would have potentially threatened to destroy Ulduar and Freya along with it who possibly created the Emerald Dream pocket dimension?
"At 2:43 Ysera says that even the Emerald Dream trembles at Deathwing conjuring the Cataclysm, and at 3:08 she describes the power of that realm to be transcendant." - Is the author of the G+ page implying that by "transcendent" Ysera is referring to dimensional superiority? I think the writer is jumping to conclusions here. Ysera could be referring to a plethora of things here. Like the dream's mostly spiritual properties or the ability to effectively bestow immortality to those that reside within it. I can't really tell what Ysera is referring to in this case exactly.
"Archimonde can destroy Draenor - " This is just flavor text. If the intention of the devs was for Archimonde to have a planet destroying spell they would have made it a raid wipe mechanic, not a spell that you "dodge to the side" to avoid taking more damage.
More importantly Archimonde has been using Rain of Chaos since way back in Warcraft III. It would take millions if not billions of these infernals to even destroy the surface of a planet.
Lastly, Archimonde only uses his Rain of Chaos abilities during the final phase of the encounter. On mythic difficulty, which is the canon difficulty as far as story goes, Archimonde goes into the Twisting Nether and never uses the ability while on Draenor making the flavor text moot.
"Despite being weakened, Thrall could hurt Archimonde - " If anything this speaks poorly of Archimonde. To begin with, we don't know the exact extent of what this "hurt" was. If Thrall dealt damage which was equivalent to a slight pinching sensation then that would hardly put him in the same tier as Archimonde. Let's not forget that when going all out, Thrall was only capable of making a small cut in the ski of Mannoroth's leathery wing. Mannoroth who is vastly below Archimonde and fears him almost as much as he fear Sargeras.
TL
R - These are mostly Pocket Dimension Manipulation and Time Manipulation feats that are very hard to quantify properly. Scaling Deathwing to Multiversal from is absurd.- Status
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