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Winx Club: Bloom Upgrade

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No not beyond the legendarium but beyond the Magic Dimension.

Don't the winx do that via teleporting? I mean its not like it matter since Bloom is getting Infinite or Immeasrurable speed and the other 5 might follow but im not sure if what you brought up is a speed feat.
 
Another thing. Wouldnt Acasuality be an option for them too? The Ethereal Fairies and Arcadia exist outside of Time and Space and the Golden Kingdom lies outside of time too, so the events within time wouldnt be able to affect them. The winx and the water stars would get this because they are able to go into the Golden Kingdom (the water stars were sealed here too) and Bloom's Dragon Fire came before time as it was born in a void.
 
If you think thats good, just wait it gets better.

First, Aisha, Tecna, Flora, Musa and Stella are gonna become 2-C because they in their Enchantix form can use the Water Stars to fight with. So when using the water stars (and only when using them) they will become 2-C.

Second, we also need to consider movie feats (which are canon). In the movie Secret of the Lost Kingdom the winx are able to destroy the dimension the people of Domino were sealed away in. A dimension of absolute evil in the winx verse. In addition, Bloom and Daphne are able to fuse their powers together when bloom wears her mask to become drastically more powerful.
 
Okay.

That is actually really good . My goodness that is wonderful !

Exactly how big is this dimension ? 2-C in size ? And about this mask thing, wow. That would make an crazy powerboost. I wholeheartedly approve.
 
The size I am not sure since I've never actually seen the movie. Someone will have to double check. Though given its the "absolute evil" of the verse it should likely be very big in size. Bear in mind, the winx at the time of this movie only had Enchantix, so they were in second to their weakest forms when they destroyed it.

And yup. Bloom with her and daphne's power at this time would become greatly superior.

I'm gonna try and find some other movie feats.
 
I see. I remember then getting that form early in the show. The absolute evil... hmm... It might actually be And if it is 2-C in size, that would still be pretty ridiculous.

Bloom & Dalphne are easily amongst the top 5 in the verse. So combining their powers in general would be the very definition of OP.

Okay. I might try to re-watch some of the movies as well. Going to watch Secret of Lost Kingdom to see if i can find higher level feats.
 
Eh that might be going too far. Base winx are basically just in their human/humanoid forms who just use their normal magic for things but not for fighting. Especially Bloom who thought for her whole life she was a human teen without any magic.
 
I don't think it is going too far IMO. It is speculative based solely on Bloom being able to draw upon the power of the Dragon Flame even in base form , which she has done consistently throughout the series .I believe she honestly has the full power of the base Dragon Flame , without any sort of training and or experience within base. However, that will have to wait until i get enough evidence to support it . For now i shall yield about that certain aspect, at least until i find evidence . The best she has feat wise is about building in base form, which is why i shall yield.
 
"If anything not for the time being. Though I have no issue with rewatching the series to get feats or looking up respect threads to help out (theres some on Narutoforums I think).

Plus im currently on break from school so that gives me a big head start."

You're very fortunate then. I've finished an intial upload for many characters for Winx Club's main series on the OBDwiki. I'm going over a second revision right now, but you can use it as a template and then apply the standards here. Though the comics and World of Winx will come some time later.
 
Yes, they aren't canon, though, so if you're only looking for things that apply to the television series, just stick with the main show and most of its movies.

The translations are behind but are at a respectable pace when one considers that this series isn't massively popular in America. Here's a useful Tumblr for your trouble: https://winxclubcomics.tumblr.com/
 
Aw man thats unfortunate......i'll wait and see what the other say but most likely we can't use them.

Unless are the characters in the comic different than the main series? We do allow non canon profiles if the characters are different from the canon ones IIRC.
 
I'm slowly reading through this just to apply comments:

"And before anyone brings it up, the other members of the winx do not scale to her before S7 when they get parts of the flames power as Bloom is blatently considered the absolute strongest being in the verse with the flames power. So the other members of the winx shouldnt even compare to her."

This is incorrect, They become roughly equal to her once they receive Believix. As you might remember, the Wizards of the Black Circle were unaffected by their Enchantix magic, and then once the Winx received Believix, the Winx were able to affect them.

"As for the Etheral Fairies, yes it should scale to Bloom since Bloom is confirmed to be the absolute strongest being in the verse due to the Dragon Flame, so she'd be stronger than the E.F.'s in every single way. And its suggested they were created by the Great Dragon himself as well."

I agree. The Ethereal fairies have nothing going for them once season four begins.
 
Witch Bernkastel said:
This is incorrect, They become roughly equal to her once they receive Believix. As you might remember, the Wizards of the Black Circle were unaffected by their Enchantix magic, and then once the Winx received Believix, the Winx were able to affect them.
Click to expand...
Actually im refering to the winx not the WoBC. The wizards easily scale as they were the most powerful enemies they faced at the time and they were a challenge to the winx even after getting Believix.

What my comment is saying is that the Winx should not be comparable to Bloom until they obtain Bloomix. Reason is because Bloom is supposed to be ridiculously stronger than them via the dragon flame for more than half the series and they only become scaleable to her when Bloom gives them parts of her Dragon Flame. But before that, Bloom being 2-C in all forms is something the other 5 should not scale to.They should only scale off of their own feats (though they will be probably Low 2-C based on them destroying a dimension in the Secrets of the Lost Kingdom movie and they'll be 2-C via the water stars they used).
 
"Zacheron"

Acheron*

"This would also scale over to Blooms sister who is a keeper of the flame too IIRC, Valtor, The Shadow Phionex, and the Trix who once stole the Dragon Flame for themselves and later on in S5 gained Daphine's powers to create a dark-version of her Sirenix power."

Yesm the reverse power-scaling aspect becomes very difficult for this series since character further on are much more powerful than characters earlier on. Not to get into the muddling mess, the Trix shouldn't receive scaling, if you are going to scale, because they had no control over their power. I will also nitpick and say that it was Tritannus who game the Trix Dark Sirenix.

"According to Everlasting it did JUST. BY. BREATHING."

Yes, that's how the legend goes, though I forget the wording used in the Italian version at the moment.

"she combines the power of her dragon flame with the power of the water stars,"

This is something she can't do because 1) She doesn't have Water Stars and 2) Water Stars would destroy when in contact with the Dragon Flame, which is why they're separated in the first place. Though you or others may remember something that I don't.

"Bloom would still be higher as she defeated Acheron"

She defeated him by trapping him. She was clearly the weaker of the two in the fight, though she is able to fight him, yes.

I think you guys are severely overestimating characters like Valtor and the Ethereal fairies. The latter because they simply don't have the feats to overcome later characters. The former also doesn't match up when one considers that the Wizards are very much above him. You must becareful with the business of scaling with the Dragon Flame. I also believe you guys are underestimating the rest of the Winx. Bloom is the strongest, yes, but they aren't children to her.
 
"What my comment is saying is that the Winx should not be comparable to Bloom until they obtain Bloomix. Reason is because Bloom is supposed to be ridiculously stronger than them via the dragon flame for more than half the series and they only become scaleable to her when Bloom gives them parts of her Dragon Flame. But before that, Bloom being 2-C in all forms is something the other 5 should not scale to.They should only scale off of their own feats (though they will be probably Low 2-C based on them destroying a dimension in the Secrets of the Lost Kingdom movie and they'll be 2-C via the water stars they used)."

They are certainly comparable to her. My point about the Wizards was an effort to show why they are comparable. You have to remember that the Dragon Flame doesn't make Bloom automatically stronger than the others (in fact, season 6 showed us this very clearly, as have many characters beforehand), so it's a mistake to assume that Bloom must be stronger despite the fact that the rest of the Winx harm the same people Bloom harms and take hits from the same people the injure Bloom. You have a point that there is a clear discrepency between Winx and the other up to season 4, but that is where it ends.

I think that the problem lies with you thinking that Bloom is at 2-C, so the others can't scale because they have no Dragon Flame power, despite others without it having an edge over Bloom anyway. If you remove the 2-C business out of the equation, then you see that there isn't much reason to not give them any scaling once they have Believix. Remember that tiers and numbers are supposed to define what characters do and are not barriers in of themselves.

To reiterate: they become scalable once they receive Believix. Because the wizards are immune to Enchantix magic, but can be harmed by Believix magic, the other Winx must be stronger than Enchantix Bloom. After that, there is no reaosn to believe that Bloom is astronomically above them, because, as we can see, the Dragon Flame doesn't automatically make her stronger than those without it.
 
True but the fact remains they can use Daphne's power and not lose control or, well, destroy themselves. That should still make them 2-C's. Also really? I remember them controlling the dragon flame quite well, they were using it against everyone and if it werent for Bloom getting her power back in the end they would have.

I don't recall that as I remember all of the winx getting water stars (6 of them). Plus im pretty sure they do not harm those with the dragon flames power when used by them, only against them. Because not only Bloom but Valtor used them against the winx and they didnt harm him at all. Plus it would seem the water stars only fight the flames power when by themselves. Since the winx used them they were likely controlling their power so that they wouldnt just start coming after bloom at any time.

Really? Because from what the wiki says, she defeated him in a fight in the legendarium world. Plus if only a very small part of the flames power was required to unseal him, then that would mean the full package of it should be stronger than Acheron.

Honestly, while the winx are strong I don't remember them being close to bloom in power at all. Even in one episode when training to fight Valtor Bloom swatted them away fairly easily.

Interesting. Wouldnt that be considered PIS then? If they can fight people whom can harm even Bloom despite not having feats anywhere near Tier 2 until a certain point, then that sounds sort of strange. But I guess we can scale them to her S4 and beyond.

Actually its not that. My reason for why I believe they shouldnt scale isnt because they don't have the power of the dragon flame (Trix, Wizards, Acheron and Tritannius prove this) but rather they don't have feats anywhere close to what Bloom either has done or can do (though counting movie feats and them controlling the water stars I might reconsider).

To be fair immunties (which here we just treat as high resistances and this works here as Aisha was able to momentairly harm one of the wizards while in Enchantix) to their Enchantix magic could be just hax resistance and not actual AP but I can see where your coming from.

You do make good points but I would like input from others as well.
 
The quotation system uses HTML, and I am too busy to use it properly for this discussion because I'm still editting the OBDwiki. So I wil just answer your points and leave it to the rest of you to decide where you want to go:

"True but the fact remains they can use Daphne's power and not lose control or, well, destroy themselves. That should still make them 2-C's. Also really? I remember them controlling the dragon flame quite well, they were using it against everyone and if it werent for Bloom getting her power back in the end they would have."

It was pointed out that they didn't have full control of the power.

"I don't recall that as I remember all of the winx getting water stars (6 of them). Plus im pretty sure they do not harm those with the dragon flames power when used by them, only against them. Because not only Bloom but Valtor used them against the winx and they didnt harm him at all. Plus it would seem the water stars only fight the flames power when by themselves. Since the winx used them they were likely controlling their power so that they wouldnt just start coming after bloom at any time."

Possibly. I admit it's been a very long time since I watched the second season.

"Really? Because from what the wiki says, she defeated him in a fight in the legendarium world. Plus if only a very small part of the flames power was required to unseal him, then that would mean the full package of it should be stronger than Acheron."

Well, she did defeat him. They are right. But she did so by trapping him in a box: https://youtu.be/wZQ9hWq1BdY?t=18s

A terrible fight, but Bloom isn't one for trickery unless she's outmatched as we've seen a few times in the series, most recently in the climax of season 7. This also bolsters the point about the Dragon Flame not being inherently superior to other things just because. Remember that scaling in this series is wonky and it's especially noticable in season 6.

"Honestly, while the winx are strong I don't remember them being close to bloom in power at all. Even in one episode when training to fight Valtor Bloom swatted them away fairly easily."

Yes, there is a clear difference at that point, even my profiles acknowledge this. But that is the season prior to Believix.

"Interesting. Wouldnt that be considered PIS then? If they can fight people whom can harm even Bloom despite not having feats anywhere near Tier 2 until a certain point, then that sounds sort of strange. But I guess we can scale them to her S4 and beyond."

You would have to list entire seasons as PIS then. They fought the wizards, they fought the Dark Sirenix Trix, they fought everyone Bloom did. They didn't fight Tritannus, but Bloom also didn't take a hit that entire fight once he activated the Emperor's Throne.

"Actually its not that. My reason for why I believe they shouldnt scale isnt because they don't have the power of the dragon flame (Trix, Wizards, Acheron and Tritannius prove this) but rather they don't have feats anywhere close to what Bloom either has done or can do (though counting movie feats and them controlling the water stars I might reconsider)."

To be frank, if we are talking about feats the characters have actually done themselves, Stella has better feats than Bloom does if we only take into account things Bloom has actually done. All of the impressive feats the Winx do is with Convergence.

"To be fair immunties (which here we just treat as high resistances and this works here as Aisha was able to momentairly harm one of the wizards while in Enchantix) to their Enchantix magic could be just hax resistance and not actual AP but I can see where your coming from."

Right, but as you've pointed out yourself it isn't just hax resistence or what not.

"You do make good points but I would like input from others as well." Of course. I'm glad I could help a bit and add another dimension to the conversation. I'm not too interested in being right but ensuring that you guys have different points of view to discuss. I will leave by copying and pasting this comment. I won't come back on, so please consider this as me bowing out. I merely came on today only because I was doing work on the other wiki, which is a rare thing for me to do nowadays, and decided to look around a bit. Please take care in the decision making process. "To demonstrate the point of Bloom being weaker to non-Dragon Flame characters, I will list the named characters withouth the Dragon Flame, who are stronger than Sirenix Bloom:SelinaThe Trix (Dark Witch and Wild Magic forms)Swan of InfinityLazuliSirenix DaphneSirenix PoliteaTritannusKalsharaThe three guardians of Magix whose names escape me Remember that there are many inconsistencies in portayals and hype early on. The Ancestral Witches being defeated by the Company of Light and yet giving trouble to Daphne and Politea; the both of whom would each solo the Company of Light. Darkar succombing to the power of an overloaded Charmix Convergence as well. Faragonda fighting Valtor evenly and yet being powerless against the newbish Trix with the Dragin Flame. The Specialists in general. Valtor and the Ancestral Witches in comparison to Darkar. Be very careful about early series hype. It's bound to be contradicted later on or muddled because the writers and producers change (the Daphne retcon being one of the worse ones when it came to production staff changes). " Good luck and best wishes.
 
I do not have the time to read all of the above text. Can somebody summarise your conclusions?
 
@Ant

Most of whats above is for other characters planned to get pages in the future. It is currently late on my end and I have to go to bed right now, so i'll give you the summary run down basis of what the conclusions are for this tomorrow.
 
Here is my problem with the mentioning of the Legendarium:

- If Achereon and the Legendarium are superior to the Dragon Flame, explain how it was unable to asborb Bloom's powers .

- Achereon is the only villian that was sealed away. Darkar and other such entities required to be absolutely obliterated.

- She is at least stronger than Legendarium, due to overwhelming it's curse with but an fraction of her power. Achereon was overwhelmed by said curse... So by powerscalling Bloom is over Achereon.

- Bloom used her most basic fairy form to combat Achereon... Unless i am poorly mistaken.

- The only reason Achereon was even able to fight her one on one ( they even describe him fighting Bloom as an struggle , NOT the other way around ) is simply because he had the a tiny portion Dragon's Flame , which would be an massive amp , plus they were inside the Legendarium, where his powers are heavily amped on top of that .
 
@Seed

I agree. Plus we also must consider that Bloom was fighting him IN the legenfarium world. A place he created so ofc he'd have the upper hand in his own domain that he controls. Plus the fact that Bloom couldnt remain there too long or else she'd be trapped in it forever and would become a fictional character herself.
 
I absolutely agree. She had the find the fastest way to deal with such an ridiculously amped entity, in order to avoid her fictionalized fate. It was pretty clear and heavily implied power to power outside of this realm he would get one-shotted, but in this realm, he literally had all of the advantages. She was running out of time, and she had no other way to defeat him very quickly other than sealing him away. I have no doubt Bloom would have defeated him even then if she was not almost out of time.
 
For Antvasima:

- Destructive Capacity: Bloom is 2-C as she casually scales to normal Achereon & easily scales to an massively amped Achereon . Achereon created the Legendarium. The Legendarium is/was created to hold every myth & legend in the verse in general, which there are at least 21 of. Each legend and myth has it's own spacetime. So that is at least 21 space-time universes. He had an tiny portion of the Dragon Flame, which amped him heavily, along with being in the Legendarium World, which gave him an huge power boost. She fought him with some effort when Achereon was massively amped, in her weakest known transformation, and was described the battle to be an struggle for Achereon , supported by the wikia and fight itself.The reason Bloom sealed him is because it is the quickest way to defeat him. Normal Achereon is weaker than Arcadia and the Ethereal Fairies, due to Arcadia calming down the water stars, an source comparable to the Dragon's Flame. They are no match for Bloom however, said directly and heavily implied by the wikia. I will do the others such as speed later.
 
I'm back because, well, because I'm still working on the wiki and procrastonating lol

Nay, you guys continue to see the Dragon Flame solely through powerlevels, which is not how it's treated most of the time.

"- If Achereon and the Legendarium are superior to the Dragon Flame, explain how it was unable to asborb Bloom's powers ."

The Dragon Flame is described as infinite and enexhaustable. The latter description is the reason why it didn't work.

"- Achereon is the only villian that was sealed away. Darkar and other such entities required to be absolutely obliterated."

Valtor was initially sealed as well and would've stayed sealed forever if it wasn't for incidental finding. The Wizards of the Black Circle were sealed away. The Trix, after taking away of the Dragon Flame, was sealed away as well. The Trix using Wild Magic were also required to be sealed away in the latest season. It's not totally correct to judge by who was sealed and who was blown up. The Ancestress Witches were also sealed away iirc.

"- She is at least stronger than Legendarium, due to overwhelming it's curse with but an fraction of her power. Achereon was overwhelmed by said curse... So by powerscalling Bloom is over Achereon."

The curse merely locked Acheron into place. We have no idea of the mechanics of the curse.

"- She is at least stronger than Legendarium, due to overwhelming it's curse with but an fraction of her power. Achereon was overwhelmed by said curse... So by powerscalling Bloom is over Achereon."

This is faulty because it relies on a premise where we don't actually know how it works.

"- Bloom used her most basic fairy form to combat Achereon... Unless i am poorly mistaken."

Quite. She was using Mythix.

"- The only reason Achereon was even able to fight her one on one ( they even describe him fighting Bloom as an struggle , NOT the other way around ) is simply because he had the a tiny portion Dragon's Flame , which would be an massive amp , plus they were inside the Legendarium, where his powers are heavily amped on top of that ."

What they (I assume you mean the dub) say and what we see are two different things. Also, there is no mention of an amp in the original or the dub iirc.

Remember that the Dragon Flame isn't stronger than everything and there are mystical properties that it has that are what many villains want to use it for. There are some items such as the Relix and the Beast of the Depths that are stronger than the Dragon Flame. The Trix with Wild Magic were clowning all of the Winx in their Butterflix forms. The Dragon Flame doesn't mean "automatically more powerful than those without it."
 
- Okay the

- It's how we see quite a few things on Vs battles, and it has been relatively consistent so far.

- The logic you are using for this first part is an NLF . It is lowkey, but it is no limits fallacy nonetheless. The same reason why i will never accept the whole Limitless statement about the Dragon Flame. This is why i say that resistance / power was the reason she was immune to it.

- Yes, he was sealed in the beginning . I was initially talking about how he was defeated by the Winx in the end.

- This is also an fair point. I was just assuming the curse works based on power, like most things concerning this sort of situation .

- Same as before

- This was just using logic. I'm not going to mention the dragon flame amping him, as that one does not require being mentioned. In the Legendarium, it is quite literally his own domain. It is literally the equivalent of fighting Dormammu in his Dark Dimension, so of course he would receive an big advantage in the Legendarium than outside. If they were fighting each other outside of said realm, then i would change my opinions about it. We don't even know honestly IF Achereon would do just as well , and we can't just automatically assume she is weaker due to the fact that she was hit only once, and decided to seal him up.

- Yeah... I messed up there. BIG TIME.

- I know of an few who can give her complete trouble in the verse. I know it is not the absolute strongest as well. Valtor needed it to get the Ultimate Power, so yes i get that it was not just for power some of the time ( however in Valtor's casse it is a bit of both power & requirements ) . We will never use the Beast of the Magix & will never be accepted, due to lack of feats & far more statements than showings .

- Even if she cannot be scaled to ( Which in my humble opinion MOST of her forms scale. ) Achereon, she would still scale to the Great Dragon's creation feat, which includes many space-time based universes.
 
The Dragon Flame is the absolute strongest source of magic in the winx verse. Even if not by a lot there should be nothing in Winx superior to its overall power.
 
^ That is the honest to goodness problem here, Kukui. I know it is, i was just saying that to silence this discussion. That is one thing in WInx that is literally stated and supported every season. The main problem is the Ultimate Power, just because it is located outside the Magic DImension, does not mean the GD did not create it. In fact, there is literally no evidence that implies that it didn't create it, just an assumption.
 
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