Why spaghetti-I mean Papyrus and co., should be multi galaxy level

[HomestuckLover1]

So. I noticed an interesting line in Undertale. Flowey literally mentions how Frisk's friends' souls together would make up the power he needed to substitute the one soul he needed to achieve his ultimate form: https://youtu.be/OrPGlwRbq0M?t=10m8s

Also, keep in mind Flowey says this before all the other monsters come in as well, so he wasn't referring to all of the monster population when he said that.

Therefore, I think it's safe to say that Papyrus, Undyne, Sans, Toriel, and Asgore should scale to a full human soul to a degree. Multi-galaxy level IMO seems fair, considering they all fought Frisk at one point, and even manage to cause damage to them at the final boss fight (Even if unwillingly). All that, added along with their souls together being enough to make one human, I think this definitely allows for them to be multi-galaxy level.

I know that there is the main argument of Alphys and there not being any proof she can fight or be on any skill level similar to the others and I have two possible answers to this.

1. She in fact does show she can apparently fight and harm you in the end of the true boss battle when you reach out to her soul and she tries to kill you

2. It's possible that Alphys's soul may not be as powerful as the others, but was still used by Flowey anyway

So while I think Alphys should be under some scrutiny, I have no doubt the others should scale and be multi galaxy level.

 

[Tsubori]

Sounds about right to me. Flowey didn't know the other monsters would be coming, and planned very deliberately through Papyrus to get Sans, Undyne, Papyrus, and Alpyhs there. Hell, it's possible he didn't even know Toriel would be there.

 

[WarriorWare]

This is some stretchy, wishfully thought, mountain-level farmer with a shotgun powerscaling I'm seeing here.

HomeStuckLover, I am surprised at you. You should know much, much better than this. First of all, it was all part of Flowey's plan for all of the monsters to show up. He's the one who told Papyrus - the nicest guy in the game, friends with everyone - to bring everyone there.

Second, one human soul does not necessarily equal universal. Six souls did that. Frisk's soul was a special case for the sheer amount of Determination they had by the end of the game. Look at Flowey's page then Asriel's. They're the same tier. I mean, obviously he's more powerful with the monster souls within him, but not by a whole other tier. Heck, his tier is most likely based on scaling to Omega Flowey, since all Asriel does is almost destroy one universe.

Third, there's plenty of reason to believe that Sans is universal anyway, which means that Papyrus and such hardly need to contribute anything.

Fourth, Papyrus fights Frisk at almost the very beginning of Frisk's adventure. Frisk may not have been levelling up, but the situation they were in at the time filled them with an immense amount of Determination.

Fifth, I'm almost certain Alphys is having Mettaton fight for her from off-screen when you're trying to save her. Mettaton, IIRC, didn't have a soul to absorb.

 

[HomestuckLover1]

Flowey knew nothing about the rest of the monster population coming. He thought that Frisk's friends alone would be enough (He even states this in the timestamp I posted). Flowey even has a shocked expression when the rest of the monster population comes by.

Either way it still makes them at least galaxy level, since six souls can make you multi-universal.

Maybe, yet if that were the case, Flowey would have just had Papyrus bring Sans.

And everyone fights him again in the final battle and can still harm him. And nothing gives off any idea that being mind controlled by Asriel somehow made them stronger.

Ummmmmm...Wut. Mettaton in fact does have a soul. Alphys mentions this in her logs and you can also find this out by reading Napstablook's cousin's diaries, because Napstablook's cousin is Mettaton.

 

[HomestuckLover1]

Also, as more proof for Alphys being able to fight, when Frisk's friends block Flowey's attacks, Alphys does as well. It's those lightning bolts you see.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I'm having an incredibly hard time buying this.

Flowey knew everyone would show up. He was just trolling you when he was acting surprised. He does this numerous times throughout the game. Remember when you think you "defeat" Omega Flowey, then he just resets his own health back to full and laughs as he kills you? He just loves seeing that moment of hope in your eyes before he tears it away.

The lost souls pretty obviously draw from Asriel's power, not their own. I find it incredibly hard to believe that Alphys could harm a multi-universal opponent with her own power.

Flowey almost surely needed every monster soul. This is hinted at throughout the game when reading lore which states it would take nearly every monster soul to equal to full power of a single human soul. Obviously, this does not mean one regular human = all monsters, but someone like Frisk = all monsters, and Frisk was exactly the kind of soul Flowey needed in his Omega state to achieve his true form.

It was incredibly easy for Flowey to set it up so every monster would arrive. He's lived out life countless times, and can read and manipulate anyone in the Underground as he sees fit. Frisk is the one unpredictable variable, which is exactly why he wanted them to make friends with everyone. If he could subtly push Frisk in the pacifist direction, they could basically make everyone gather there for him, without having to worry about the constantly changing variable that is Frisk messing up his plans.

 

[WarriorWare]

That was an act. He was acting surprised to see everyone at first and then proceeded to absorb all their souls as well. All part of his plan.

Dividing in that way is very, very iffy. It's like saying that Shadow is at least moon level because he always has at least one Emerald, or that Farmer with a Shotgun is mountian level by dividing Roshi's power level by his.

Flowey most likely doesn't know Sans's power. It is said that it takes the power of nearly every single monster soul to equal that of a human soul.

They can't harm Frisk enough to kill them. They were being controlled by someone with infinite LOVE, and since that's all in the mind, yes, they were stronger at that time.

Alphys is clearly using Mettaton's attacks. Where the heck did she get all those bombs otherwise?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

They can't harm Frisk enough to kill them. They were being controlled by someone with infinite LOVE, and since that's all in the mind, yes, they were stronger at that time.

To be fair, Asriel couldn't kill Frisk, either; their Determination was just too great. However, yes, you're right that they were obviously drawing from Asriel's power (which was literally an infinite supply of LOVE), and not using their own.

 

[HomestuckLover1]

"The lost souls pretty obviously draw from Asriel's power, not their own. I find it incredibly hard to believe that Alphys could harm a multi-universal opponent with her own power."

How do they "obviously" draw from Asriel's powers? They don't use any of his attacks, and are obviously fighting on their own. They're pulled out of Asriel with Frisk's powers, yet that doesn't mean they were powered up or anything.

"Flowey almost surely needed every monster soul. This is hinted at throughout the game when reading lore which states it would take nearly every monster soul to equal to full power of a single human soul. Obviously, this does not mean one regular human = all monsters, but someone like Frisk = all monsters, and Frisk was exactly the kind of soul Flowey needed in his Omega state to achieve his true form. "

With that kind of argument, I could still say that because Frisk's friends are pretty much the strongest out of all of the monsters that they should take up large portion of the powers.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

They obviously draw from it because they're part of Asriel. They're not fully "pulled out" of him until Frisk saves them, at which point they're no longer connected to him or using his LOVE.

Frisk's friends being the strongest of all monsters does not mean that Frisk's friends = 99.9999999999999% of all monsters' power.

 

[Squid_peanut]

even if what you say is true HL, potential does not essentially equal what they can actually pull off. monster bodies are fragile, anywhere neer human level determination causes them to become undone and melt. even if papyrus had galaxy level determination, him acessing it would just destroy his body. the only way for monsters to get as strong as a determined human is for them to be so determined they hold their body together on sheer will alone, i.e. Undyne The Undying. or they take what power they do have and greatly specialize it so they are perfectly equiped to face way more powerfull oponents, i.e. sans. so I'd say when undyne was talking about how tough papyrus was, it was less he was galaxy level but more he could BS fights to be a much bigger threat but since he doesn't have the heart to do it, he never will.