• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Why no one in Dragon Ball is 2-C

Status
Not open for further replies.
Frey6678

Frey6678

242
150
Hello, I'm new on this site and I decided to discuss Dragon Ball Super.
This is the definition of Low 2-C on this site
23.png

Characters capable of destroying a space-time continuum or 4D continuum.
A space-time is 4D as it has 3 spatial dimensions(height, width and length) and 1 temporal dimension(time), together in theory that is 4D.
Each space-time contain a single timeline. A timeline is a passage of time. If the "12 universes" in Dragon Ball were to actually be separate space-time continuums then where are their separate timelines?
Sidra and Quitela were able to communicate from their different "universes"

Talking in the same present time and about future events, which shows they exist in the same present timeline/space-time. There are no separate timelines.
The other "universe" was even capable of viewing the seventh universe at the same PRESENT time, seeing it as the present and same time passage
23.png

How are beings from separate space-time able to exist in the same present as another "space-time"? How are 12 space-times able to exist in a timeline? Makes no sense.
Other "universes" were teleported around the same time to the tournament of power

Which shows they all exist in the same space-time/timeline. If there were actually separate space-time continuums the time passage would be completely different.
23.png

If they were truly separate space-times, than they wouldn't perceive the different "universes" as the present timeline, nor talk about future events, since a space-time=a timeline.
The "12 universes" aren't separate space-time continuums, making them infinitely below our universe.
Not enough proof yet?
When Goku Black traveled the main timeline he refers to it as a different space-time
24.png

Even when going back
23.png

Which again shows that only the timelines are truly separated space-times. Goku Black wormhole is considered a distortion of space-time.
23.png

The "12 universes" aren't separate space-times.
Whis and supreme kais can teleport to each of the "12 universes" yet can't travel by their own power to the real separate space-time, which is trunks timeline.
Supreme kai can even teleport to Zeno's palace

But can't teleport through space-time, only the time machine and the time ring can travel through space-time.
Our universe in theory is a 4D continuum. The only 4D/spacetime/timelines in Dragon Ball are the timelines.
23.png

Zeno himself failed to destroy space-time applying real world logic that is

As seen here ^ Zeno destroyed a "timeline". There are two problems with this
1. Space still exist, that is shown when 3D existence(height, width and length) such as Zeno, Goku, Trunks and the time machine still exist. If space was truly destroyed then that would mean height, width and length were destroyed, thus 3D beings and objects would cease to exist, but that is not the case here.
2. Time still exist, time is clearly shown moving, Goku picking up Zeno takes time. They were even able to return to that time with the time machine as well.
Space-Time together both still exist.
Zeno only destroyed all physical matter of the space-time or timeline, but he never destroyed space and time itself.
This would mean he is only 3-A, as space-time still existed
Infinite Zamasu is not 4D

Firstly if he was 4D, he would be space-time itself meaning Goku, Vegeta, Trunks and everyone would of merged with him as they are bound by space-time. Even Zeno would of merged with him since he would be "space and time" itself. Clearly that's not the case, he was just fusing to a "universe", a universe that doesn't even have a space-time continuum.
Zamasu traveling to the main timeline doesn't make him 4D, firstly he's not the 3 spatial dimensions and 1 temporal dimensions itself, and he fused with Goku black who possessed the time ring, hence why he was able to return through the same place where the space-time distortion was
23.png

23.png

Zeno can be at best Low-2C if you consider 3D objects existing and time still moving as PIS, but definitely not 2-C as the "12 universes" are not separate space-time continuums
There are only 6 space-time continuums
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/865273318604144690/865680353197031434/24.png
All the six space-time continuums are parallel to each other, they contain 6 zenos and copies of all the dragon ball cast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoZ_bHr-9JY
Everytime a space-time is created, it creates an alternate space-time
23.png

Zeno never destroyed multiple space-time continuums. The "12 universes" have never even been stated to be multiple space-time and in fact have many things that contradict them to be. The only things stated to be space-times are the timelines, stated by both Goku Black and Whis.
Zeno cannot be 2-C since he never destroyed multiple space-time continuums.
Now that I have established that the "12 universes" are not separate space-time continuums
I wanna discuss the size of the "12 universes"
Before I begin I wanna state something, size is irrelevant when it comes to 4D continuums/space-time so this will not affect the above. Whatever the size of the "12 universes" may be
Firstly visually the galaxies are seen outside of both "universes 6 and 7"
23.png

Visually they are far below our universe in size, they are so small galaxies are visible.
Which is consistent
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/821771204058415137/891705038102216784/23.png
23.png

And no the Universe is never stated to be equal the observable universe in size
Many DB debaters use this scan:
https://pm1.narvii.com/7149/016efd0c098f32c579cc12f34881baeb1045c717r1-875-1024v2_hq.jpg
But in actuality its never stated in the daizenshuu, its only stated in the kaizenshuu
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/gods-and-cosmos/universe/
23.png

Which is none canon
The daizenshuu 4 has a statement where it says the "universe" is only dozens to hundred millions of light years
23.png

"The darkness that stretches out into infinity and illuminates galaxies. Dozens to hundreds millions of light years away, beyond the light of the stars, there are uncountable monsters beyond imagination."

Also
Heaven is never stated in the daizenshuu either to be = the universe, it was only stated in anime filler
23.png


Same anime filler that says there are only 4 galaxies
23.png


So neither can be accepted. If heaven was truly the size of the universe, why can't we see it in DBS?
If heaven was truly the size of the universe? Why is a small planet visible from it?
23.png



24.png



24.png

Why is a small planet visible from "universal" sized structure? Makes no sense

Macrocosm map isn't used to scale:
23.png

1. Snakeway is visible yet its only 1,000,000 kilometers​

2. King Kai's planet is the same size as sacred world of the kais planet​

3. King Yemma's palace is bigger than sacred world of the kais planet and even its stars​

4. Heaven and Daio kaio planet size difference isn't truly shown like it actually should be​

5. A small planet like daio kaio planet is far greater in size than stars and sacred world of the kais and its also visible from the macrocosm.​

All this shows the map isn't used to scale size, just for the viewer to know the different areas.
The BOG fist clash of both Goku and Beerus is not impressive
Universe 7 isn't near the size of our universe. Definition of 3-A according to this site: "Characters who can destroy all celestial bodies within a volume at least equivalent to the observable universe via an omnidirectional explosion, alternately create or significantly affect[1] a universe of comparable size, which does not involve the destruction and/or creation of space-time."
Yet the fist clash wasn't going to destroying a space equivalent to the observable universe, instead most likely way smaller
Goku should possibly be 3-B, even if we ignore the visuals of galaxies being visible from the outside and the daizenshuu statement, he would at most be 3-A.

Universe 7 is not a space-time continuum as proven above, none of the "12 universes" are, only the timelines are space-time continuums
And Universe 7 is possibly far smaller in size than our universe.(size is irrelevant to stuff that are 2-C though)

​

 
Last edited:
As much as I would love for a Dragon Ball downgrade of this scale, nah, we're a conservative family here.
I also just skimmed through the whole post, so...
 
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
Honestly I would implore folks to be hesitant to even put any effort into debating CRT until there's guarantees from the OP that it won't just get deleted again plus as mentioned above they're new here.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I was mostly just trolling with my comment. Any idea why this keeps getting deleted, since I thought we weren't supposed to delete threads?
 
azontr said:
Agreed. I was mostly just trolling with my comment. Any idea why this keeps getting deleted, since I thought we weren't supposed to delete threads?
Click to expand...
As far as I can recall, I didn’t see this thread getting deleted ngl unless it was by a mod or a admin doing it I think although mods mostly close threads and I don’t know if they are allowed to delete threads per se.
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
I don’t think the OP has the ability to delete their own threads as I tried that earlier as a regular user and it didn’t work I think.
Click to expand...
Yeah that's what I initially thought too but isn't poor practice to immediately delete a CRT (Instead of closing it) without giving any reasoning and explanation to the OP? (Moreso to a new user), it just doesn't make any sense.
Sus said:
Can we stop derailing, i want to know how will that go
Click to expand...
That's the problem how can we have meaningful discussions without any guarantees that the CRT won't be deleted for a 3rd time?
 
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
Yeah that's what I initially thought too but isn't poor practice to immediately delete a CRT (Instead of closing it) without given zero reasoning and explanation to the OP? (Moreso to a new user), it just doesn't make any sense.

That's the problem how can we have meaningful discussions without any guarantees that the CRT won't be deleted for a 3rd time?
Click to expand...
I didn’t see the thread being deleted three times ngl so I can’t do any further input aside from a possible explanation since the mods and admins has these discussions a lot in the past and is getting tired of discussing the cosmology of DB.

Heck I even think there was a discussion rule regarding this very topic too.

Anyway, it is also possible for the mods to restore threads too I think, but other than that, I not sure if it is a accident or something
 
Frey6678 said:
Goku should not be Low 2-C, in fact not even Zeno should be if you use real life logic.
Click to expand...
Disclaimer: I know little to nothing about DB

Just because in the image it shows a galaxy, this literally means nothing. It could display anything, it's just used to look eye catching. Unless I'm mistaken, it's clearly implied here that each "ball" is a separate universe totalling 12.

Using "real life logic" gets us nowhere. This is fiction. If we applied real life logic then almost every character on the wiki would be downgraded.
 
Colonel_Krukov said:
Disclaimer: I know little to nothing about DB

Just because in the image it shows a galaxy, this literally means nothing. It could display anything, it's just used to look eye catching. Unless I'm mistaken, it's clearly implied here that each "ball" is a separate universe totalling 12.

Using "real life logic" gets us nowhere. This is fiction. If we applied real life logic then almost every character on the wiki would be downgraded.
Click to expand...
Which is why I said IF
In theory if space-time is truly destroyed, no 3D existence should exist since height, width, length and time would be nonexistent.
if we accept space-time still existing even after Zeno destroyed the timeline, it would still be only low 2-C at best.
Its also been implied numerous times as shown above that the "12 universes" do not contain their own space-time, but instead they exist in a single space-time continuum including even Zeno's palace.
As shown above, Goku Black and Whis refer to the main timeline as a different space-time. Whis can't travel to Trunks timeline aka a different space-time yet can travel to Zeno's palace, likewise the the supreme kai. Each time a timeline branches aka a new space-time continuum, a new Zeno and set of the dragon ball cast is made which shows they are bound by space-time. It's why Goku Black exist in the first place, due to timeline/space-time branches.
 
Last edited:
Sus said:
What about super shenron... It literally dwarfs entire galaxies yet don't cover the universe
Click to expand...
Well that's the size discussion now, which is irrelevant when it comes to space-time/4D continuums. Regarding size though dwarfing entire galaxies wouldn't really be significant considering real life scientist believe the observable universe alone would possibly have 2,000,000,000,000 galaxies
23.png

And that's just the observable universe. The real universe is still unknown.
 
Colonel_Krukov said:
Disclaimer: I know little to nothing about DB

Just because in the image it shows a galaxy, this literally means nothing. It could display anything, it's just used to look eye catching. Unless I'm mistaken, it's clearly implied here that each "ball" is a separate universe totalling 12.

Using "real life logic" gets us nowhere. This is fiction. If we applied real life logic then almost every character on the wiki would be downgraded.
Click to expand...
Yeah that is a big double standard
 
Frey6678 said:
Its also been implied numerous times as shown above that the "12 universes" do not contain their own space-time, but instead they exist in a single space-time continuum including even Zeno's palace.
Click to expand...
Scans for this. To me it looks like the 12 universes are separate and therefore have their own space-time
Frey6678 said:
As shown above, Goku Black and Whis refer to the main timeline as a different space-time.
Click to expand...
This itself proves that there's more than one universe with a separate timeline. Unless I'm wrong?
Frey6678 said:
Each time a timeline branches aka a new space-time continuum, a new Zeno
Click to expand...
Proof that there's more than one Zeno? I'm unfamiliar with the verse, so I could be wrong, but to me it seems like there's just one Zeno. Unless you can prove otherwise?
 
Fair enough, although it's definitely another Zeno and not his past/future self?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

William_Joee
Doraemon 2-B Cosmology Upgrade
2
Replies
44
Views
3K
William_Joee
William_Joee
Animus-sama
spongebob low 2c upgrade
2
Replies
43
Views
3K
Accelerated_Evolution
Accelerated_Evolution
LuffyRuffy46307
Minor changes to infinite Zamasu
Replies
17
Views
2K
LuffyRuffy46307
LuffyRuffy46307
Tr&Lokumu
Omnitraxus Prime 2-A Upgrade
Replies
3
Views
855
Cropfist
Cropfist
LuffyRuffy46307
  • Locked
Dragon Ball Conceptual Manipulation End Closing
2 3 4
Replies
143
Views
8K
DarkDragonMedeus
DarkDragonMedeus
Back
Top