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Why Lucifer Morningstar is 1A ?

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I think that he mainly scales from the Endless, but I seem to recall that revisions will be performed in a while.
 
I agree that improvements would be welcome. It will hopefully be handled relatively soon.
 
We should also revise on if Lucifer being above The Endless or not, because on the one hand we have Sandman31's recent info on The Endless being older then The Presence but on the other hand Morpheus (Dream) has stated that Lucifer with the exception of his father is the most powerful entity in creation (he even admits that fighting him would be suicide which is why he was scared when he confronted Lucifer in Hell) and Lucifer did burn Destiny's book.

I also think that a hiearchy list of the most powerful characters in DC/Vertigo would be a nice idea as well
 
Well, we can only wait for PrinceOfTheMorning to start his revision thread. This one should preferably be closed in the meantime.
 
I have another proof for Lucifer 1A:

It has been confirmed by Marvel and DC that their multiverse coexist (in GM cosmology) in the same source (bleed, or superflow in Marvel). And for Lucifer the concepts of space, time and infinity are nothing for him (the space-time of each creation present on the void) since these are concepts created by his will.

And the bleed is a creation (present on the overvoid ) and containing several multiverse of which that of Marvel, so that means that the bleed is infinite D (since the concept of the bleed = that of the bulk, which is a dimension superior to that of the universes present in). So the infinities of upper space-time are nothing for Lucifer as they are concepts of his will.

Then I'm not kidding for DC (the orrery of worlds) and the Marvel multiverse, both are present in the same sources.
 
@Lord Can you provide explicit evidence for such claims besides statements ?

The Endless were suppose to be upscaled from the Monitor's current True Forms, at least based on what I saw from the thread upgrading the Monitors.
 
Honestly IDK why people claim that The Endless are below The Monitor Sphere when guides credit them as existing in every aspect of creation and predate creation
 
We will generally not scale any characters from Crossovers, especially not cosmic entities.
 
He's more powerful than the Endless, Death cannot claim him (at least not yet), Dream is scared and says he's more powerful, he burns pages in destiny's book etc. First of all reaches up to the overvoid and travels around in the it, discerning it's true nature. Kills Micheal tanks his explosion and shapes it into a new creation, recreates him with a gesture. Is superior to the Basanos who had to use Izanami's hax to harm him and these are just the well known ones.
 
EmperorRorepme said:
He's more powerful than the Endless, Death cannot claim him (at least not yet), Dream is scared and says he's more powerful, he burns pages in destiny's book etc. First of all reaches up to the overvoid and travels around in the it, discerning it's true nature. Kills Micheal tanks his explosion and shapes it into a new creation, recreates him with a gesture. Is superior to the Basanos who had to use Izanami's hax to harm him and these are just the well known ones.
Click to expand...
He only defeated the Basanos because he tricked them into coming to his universe, where of course he's stronger than them. Also Destiny knew that he would burn the pages of his book, it was written that he would do so, so what should that exactly prove? Fair enough, he tanked Michaels explosion and then made a universe, which isn't all that impressive for someone that is supposed to be 1-A tier.

No disrespect or anything, I just don't see why Lucifer is as powerful as people often claim he is.
 
He was able to body the Basanos with a knife once before and they had to bargain to be set free. They couldn't harm him without outside sources.

Just because Destiny knew that would happen doesn't decrease the potency.

He didn't make a sole universe. He shaped it into another creation equivalent to the Presence's.
 
EmperorRorepme said:
He was able to body the Basanos with a knife once before and they had to bargain to be set free. They couldn't harm him without outside sources.
Just because Destiny knew that would happen doesn't decrease the potency.

He didn't make a sole universe. He shaped it into another creation equivalent to the Presence's.
Click to expand...
No according to the writer of the original Lucifer run, he confirmed that for him Multiverse is basically a Universe with multible dimensions. Even if he made a multiverse it wouldn't be impressive for a being that is supposed to be 1-A.

And the couple of times where he said that he "doesn't have the time" doesn't really make it seem like he is above the concept of time either...
 
The writer is wrong than because he calls it his own version of creation and a multiverse multiple times. It is impressive because it's the same as the regular DC one.

No he says time is a mere an extension of the will. It isn't significant to him in the slightest. He demonstrates tgat with his own creation.
 
EmperorRorepme said:
The writer is wrong than because he calls it his own version of creation and a multiverse multiple times
No he says time is a mere an extension of the will. It isn't significant to him in the slightest. He demonstrates tgat with his own creation.
Click to expand...
His creation was called a universe a couple of times though.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11132/111321350/6014010-4728175-scan0043ds2.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11132/111321350/6014011-4728176-scan0045mu4.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11132/111321350/6014012-4728177-scan0047qx4.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11132/111321350/6014013-4728178-scan0048bx8.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11132/111321350/6014015-4728180-scan0038ox1.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11132/111321350/6014016-4728181-scan0039nv1.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11132/111321350/6014017-4728182-scan0042xt1.jpg

And here is the writer confirming that for him: Multiverse = Universe with multible dimensions;

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11132/111321350/5915239-Безымянныsadasdsadйsssssss.png

Also here the scan where Lucifer says he "doesn't have the time":

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11132/111321350/6009756-rco015_1469046551.jpg
 
Also it would be a good thing to chance this sentence:

created two brothers infused with literal unlimited might, Michael Demiurgos and Samael, later called Lucifer Morningstar. After both were formed, Yahweh guided them, instructed them as to how to use their powers, and then they formed the creation we all know as the DC Multiverse.

into:

created three brothers infused with literal unlimited might, Michael Demiurgos, Gabriel and Samael, later called Lucifer Morningstar. After both were formed, Yahweh guided them, instructed them as to how to use their powers, and then they formed the creation we all know as the DC Multiverse.

Here the scan:

https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111149763/5590350-4132241615-Lucif.jpg
 
The Unknown Warrior1 said:
But isn't Gabriel treated as being, while somewhat comparable, below his brothers?
Click to expand...
Gabriel gets ignored a lot, basically he once fell in love with a demon and that demon ripped his heart out which then made him impure, and because of that he became mortal. So yes, he's below his brothers but when it comes to creation itself, there were three brothers that did it. Not only two like many think.
 
DarkHunter89 said:
The fact that it takes Lucifer time to actually do things:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Or86wz807CqVlJhBso4Z-j1no7u5skk6bwyp3I1m8nue8oSi69FLfe9ohNg62DbS8whqqYl3nan_=s0
Click to expand...
In this scan allow it shows that time is working against him, not only that but he actually has to do something against that. 1-A beings should be immune to time, like time should mean jackshit to them. It's like if you were to give an 1-A being a task he could only do in a certain amount of time, naturally it should be able to just do it whenever it wants to. At least that's how I understand it.
 
Also the whole tanking a universe exploding thing doesn't seem impressive for a 1-A, but it was stated by Michael that normally his power when uncontrolled would overwhelm everything that exists (which also explains why when Lucifer made his universe, he took him to the void) and if Lucifer can tank, then I consider it pretty impressive (http://imgur.com/a/Sqbpq)
 
The Unknown Warrior1 said:
Also the whole tanking a universe exploding thing doesn't seem impressive for a 1-A, but it was stated by Michael that normally his power when uncontrolled would overwhelm everything that exists (which also explains why when Lucifer made his universe, he took him to the void) and if Lucifer can tank, then I consider it pretty impressive (http://imgur.com/a/Sqbpq)
Click to expand...
Yes, it's impressive but he still tanked a universal or at best a multiversal blast.
 
Look, I already told you that revisions will have to wait until PrinceOfTheMorning has collected all of his evidence.

I will close this thread now.
 
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