Why is SSJ3 Goku 3-B?

[MeiouHades]

So I was looking at Toei Goku’s profile and in it, he has a 3-B key in his SSJ3 state from the movie Fusion Reborn. His justification is:

Multi-Galaxy Level as a Super Saiyan 3 (Shook the Afterlife merely by transforming).

But this doesn’t hold with our current accepted standards, does it? According to the threads prior, the Afterlife is accepted to be its own separate Universal sized space-time continuum, that is a Low 2-C structure. Why is shaking that only 3-B? I’m pretty sure Tier 2 doesn’t work like that unless I’m mistaken?

 

[Hasty12345]

did he shake the past, present and future?

 

[MeiouHades]

did he shake the past, present and future?

Is that a consideration when significantly affecting a Tier 2 structure? Did the standards change recently?

 

[Hasty12345]

Is that a consideration when significantly affecting a Tier 2 structure? Did the standards change recently?

it's the basic requirement for tier 2 anything, you need to affect the spacetime continuum.

 

[MeiouHades]

it's the basic requirement for tier 2 anything, you need to affect the spacetime continuum.

Yet shaking said Tier 2 structure isn’t affecting it?

 

[Hasty12345]

Yet shaking said Tier 2 structure isn’t affecting it?

can you prove he shook the entire continuum and not just the present?

 

[MeiouHades]

can you prove he shook the entire continuum and not just the present?

I don’t understand how one can “prove“ that he “shook the past” as well. I mean I can’t prove that he would’ve ”destroyed“ the past, present and future in BoG either, yet he’s somehow 2-C?

 

[Hasty12345]

I don’t understand how one can “prove“ that he “shook the past” as well. I mean I can’t prove that he would’ve ”destroyed“ the past, present and future in BoG either, yet he’s somehow 2-C?

they the standards according to Pein

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

He defeated Majin Buu in this tier by destroying the Kaioshin realm, but now that the Kaioshin realm is scaled to universal, the Goku's tier was to change to 3-A at least with scale to Majin Buu

DB Toei Afterlife size change

Dragon Ball Toei Priority: 2/3 Very Basic Change In this calc made in 2020, the post itself was rejected due to Toei Heaven being rejected as Universe sized. The calc and math was approved, and now that we accept Toei Heaven as the size of a Universe, this should make the calc acceptable now...

vsbattles.com

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I don’t understand how one can “prove“ that he “shook the past” as well. I mean I can’t prove that he would’ve ”destroyed“ the past, present and future in BoG either, yet he’s somehow 2-C?

I would also like some clarification on that.

 

[MeiouHades]

I would also like some clarification on that.

It legitimately makes 0 sense. Buuhan’s feat was also considered Low 2-C/2-C because it would’ve destroyed/affected the universe (it scaling to him or not isn‘t relevant) but I don’t see how that feat involves affecting the past, present and future simultaneously if that’s really the standard for Tier 2 anything. It just stated that he’d break the dimensional walls between the realms and crush the universe with alternate dimensions which, before Ultima’s upgrade thread, wasn’t even considered a justification for rating the feat as a Tier 2 feat.

 

[MeiouHades]

He defeated Majin Buu in this tier by destroying the Kaioshin realm, but now that the Kaioshin realm is scaled to universal, the Goku's tier was to change to 3-A at least with scale to Majin Buu

DB Toei Afterlife size change

Dragon Ball Toei Priority: 2/3 Very Basic Change In this calc made in 2020, the post itself was rejected due to Toei Heaven being rejected as Universe sized. The calc and math was approved, and now that we accept Toei Heaven as the size of a Universe, this should make the calc acceptable now...

vsbattles.com

It should realistically be Low 2-C unless there is some really weird and obscure Tier 2 standard that I’m not aware of.

 

[MeiouHades]

they the standards according to Pein

The guy who thinks time needs to flow sideways?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

It should realistically be Low 2-C unless there is some really weird and obscure Tier 2 standard that I’m not aware of.

I don't remember things well, but it seems to make sense.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

He defeated Majin Buu in this tier by destroying the Kaioshin realm, but now that the Kaioshin realm is scaled to universal, the Goku's tier was to change to 3-A at least with scale to Majin Buu

DB Toei Afterlife size change

Dragon Ball Toei Priority: 2/3 Very Basic Change In this calc made in 2020, the post itself was rejected due to Toei Heaven being rejected as Universe sized. The calc and math was approved, and now that we accept Toei Heaven as the size of a Universe, this should make the calc acceptable now...

vsbattles.com

The Goku that defeated Kid Buu is 2-C

 

[MeiouHades]

Honestly, unless the standards are clarified and are consistently applied, this may warrant a CRT to either change Goku’s justification or give him Low 2-C (as well as Janemba) in his SSJ3 key

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

The Goku that defeated Kid Buu is 2-C

Have you done this? Janemba should then get a 2-C on his profile.

 

[Hasty12345]

The guy who thinks time needs to flow sideways?

Yeah

 

[MeiouHades]

Yeah

Not the most truthworthy person on this matter, I’d say.

 

[Hasty12345]

Not the most truthworthy person on this matter, I’d say.

Well they wrote the new standards basically, so I’m not sure how much more trustworthy it gets

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Now now let's not throw stuff around. We just have a question no need to blow this up.

 

[MeiouHades]

Well they wrote the new standards basically, so I’m not sure how much more trustworthy it gets

Ask him to rewrite standards such that time needs to flow sideways then

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Have you done this? Janemba should then get a 2-C on his profile.

There's another CRT that's trying to remove the "Post-Vegito Division" thing, but it's still on-going

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

There's another CRT that's trying to remove the "Post-Vegito Division" thing, but it's still on-going

Jeez, just waiting for this CRT to update Janemba, I don't have much time otherwise I would do it myself

 

[MeiouHades]

Can we ask any staff member or someone else knowledgeable to comment here?

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I have no idea beyond Don't talk, Pein and Ultima.

 

[Thelastmlg]

those feats aren’t comparable, ssj3 goku merely shook the afterlife, so as far as we know he was affecting matter only

buuhan was going to destroy the dimensional barriers with his vice shout, so i’m pretty sure the reasoning for it is that he would need to destroy spacetime in the whole universe for it

BoG goku was shaking a structure with multiple separate spacetime continumns and was going to destroy it

2 of those clearly include affecting spacetime, while ssj3 goku simple shaked something

 

[MeiouHades]

those feats aren’t comparable, ssj3 goku merely shook the afterlife, so as far as we know he was affecting matter only

Not really? We’re shown that the entire Low 2-C structure is shaking.

buuhan was going to destroy the dimensionsbarriers sith his vice shout, so i’m pretty sure the reasoning for it is that he would need to destroy spacetime in the whole universe for it

That was never the reasoning for his feat being accepted as a Tier 2 feat. That’s just the justification Ultima used to scale that already Tier 2 feat to his actual stats. The feat is Tier 2 because it involved destruction of the universe.

BoG goku was shaking a structure with multiple separate spacetime continumns and was going to destroy it

But he wasn’t shaking the past, present and future, was he? Can we prove that?

2 of those clearly include affecting spacetime, while ssj3 goku simple shaked something

That’s not really relevant

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

There is only evidence he shook the physical components in the Afterlife, not so much the space-time continuum. And if she shook the afterlife and the living world, maybe I could see it being Tier 2. I also recall someone making arguments that Janemba has Tier 2 statements unless that is exclusive for his Super form and thus only Gogeta would scale.

 

[Omegabronic]

There is only evidence he shook the physical components in the Afterlife, not so much the space-time continuum. And if she shook the afterlife and the living world, maybe I could see it being Tier 2. I also recall someone making arguments that Janemba has Tier 2 statements unless that is exclusive for his Super form and thus only Gogeta would scale.

it is exclusivelly to his super janemba state


either way you guys would need a calculation before making goku scale to the shaking afterlife, you know, for us to know where in 3-A he would be

 

[Testarossa002]

I don’t understand how one can “prove“ that he “shook the past” as well. I mean I can’t prove that he would’ve ”destroyed“ the past, present and future in BoG either, yet he’s somehow 2-C?

This is the standards (or at least the one that applies in this case)

Characters or objects that are capable of significantly affecting,[1] creating, and/or destroying an area of space qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space. Common fictional examples of spaces representing such sizes are space-time continuums (the entire past, present and future of 3-dimensional space) of a universal scale. However, it can be more generally fulfilled by any 4-dimensional space that is either:

If you think the BoG Goku's feat doesn't qualify, make a downgrade CRT

 

[MeiouHades]

it is exclusivelly to his super janemba state


either way you guys would need a calculation before making goku scale to the shaking afterlife, you know, for us to know where in 3-A he would be

Wouldn’t it just be baseline 3-A?

 

[Omegabronic]

Wouldn’t it just be baseline 3-A?

the afterlife is not baseline 3-A in size at all, besides even if it was, shaking all in a universe is nowhere near universe level