Why Doesn't Naruto Scale to Toneri's GWRE?

[BarryAllen2.0]

Toneri's GWRE was calced and accepted at Sub-Relitivistic (Mach 21,000+).

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blogodoNova2/Golden_Wheel_Reincarnation_Explosio

In this calc, Naruto is later calced at Mach 22,800+, but this is Calc Stacking obviously. So we can't use it in a calc to get Naruto's speed, but what we do know is that in this Calc, Naruto is pixeled Scaled to be 14 meters away from it.

Even though calcing Naruto's speed from it would result in Calc stacking, at that distance if Naruto would have a higher speed from calcing, why can't we just scale him from it instead of calcing and call it a day, thus avoiding calc-stacking? Naruto reacted to it from 14 meters away, that's a fact. Calcing how fast he would be using the speed of it results in a higher number, and that is fact.

What explanation is there to keep Naruto and god tiers from getting the upgrade? This particular conversation wasn't actually concluded in the thread in which it was discussed, just left open ended.

Basically, this is what should be discussed here:

Naruto being upgraded to Sub-Relitivistic Via Scaling from Toneri's GWRE speed for being pixel scaled at 14 meters away when calcing it results in a higher speed than the attack itself which then falls under the calc-stacking umbrella.


An if this upgrade does go through, I'm not saying this makes Light Fang legit LS, but it would begin to validate it considering Naruto in the Last is just 100% KCM + SM.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

bump

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

Bump

 

[TataHakai]

He logically should scale to it via being ridicolously superior to Toneri to be honest.

As for Fang light, if i recall correctly Antvasima said they didn't accept databook descriptions due to the databooks being too inconsistent especially with all the hyperboles within them.

 

[Heatforce]

What I think needs to be addressed is how sage chakra potentially makes elemental ninjutsu attacks their real element. Look at kirin, that was formerly sasuke's most powerful lightning attack and that required real lightning. Now look at sasuke using indra's arrow, his new most powerful attack that surpasses kirin, is also made of lightning. So then wouldn't light fang be a storm release amped by sage chakra thereby making it real light? I'm sure there are other examples.

 

[TataHakai]

It being real light doesn't even matter

It's literally stated to cut at light speed, even if it was from Madara swinging his head the attack is light speed, there's no way to prove Madara's head doesn't swing at light speed

Anyways, I think it's against discussion rules to discuss the fang light feat. Although again, Naruto does logically scale to Toneri's attack speed via being far above him.

 

[Omimi]

i think we should avoid talking about Fang light, in this tread

otherwise it may get close


i agree with BarryAllen2.0

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

There is no evidence that support this and calcing Naruto's speed from this is calc stacking => Naruto doesn't get Sub-Rel speed due to this.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yeah leave Light Fang out of this. That is not the main point of this thread and discussing it is against the rules. It will only make this thread get closed before getting to the main point.

As for the main point, seems very reasonable to me but I will wait to see what others say about this.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

The Lightning Fang topic has been discussed extensively in the past and got rejected.

 

[LlamaGod1411]

Light Fang isn't the main matter at hand, @Scarlet.

And I'm still not sure about Naruto revisions, since Gwynn is still undertaking it.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

@Llama I know, I'm just getting ahead of that topic since it was brought up again.

 

[TataHakai]

There is no evidence that support this and calcing Naruto's speed from this is calc stacking => Naruto doesn't get Sub-Rel speed due to this.

There's no evidence to support what? Naruto is far and beyond Toneri in power, scaling him to Toneri's attack speed doesn't seem too far fetched in my opinion.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

hmm the way i see it, there shouldn't be a problem with it, if he reacted to it then he has sub relativistic reactions?, i mean his superior to toneri by a large amount i don't see the problem with Naruto having MHS+ and Sub relativistic reactions, considering he didn't dodge it we cant scale it to his movement/combat speed but it should apply to his reaction speed.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

Energy projection is a weird and by no means it should be treated like regural powerscaling.

 

[LlamaGod1411]

@Gwynn is a weird what?

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

Correlating the power level of a character with the speed of a projectile/beam of produced by a weaker character makes no sense.Especially since we are talking about things without physical substance (or small mass).

By the logic of this thread: If i'm stronger than someone then i'm also faster than an arrow that launched by the guy i'm stronger.

I produce more work than the energy required for a LED to produce light, therefore i'm faster than light.

Another reason for this not to be accepted is the fact that Naruto doesn't have any feats near that speed.Which further backs up the skepticism behind my point.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

i see youre point but what if you reacted to the arrow??? wouldnt you scale to it?

 

[ScarletFirefly]

i see youre point but what if you reacted to the arrow??? wouldnt you scale to it?

IMO his reaction speed should scale yes.

 

[LlamaGod1411]

If the diode can produce light to a 10m range, and you manage to get to a 10m point before the light does, that does make you FTL though, right?

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

i dont think naruto's combat speed should scale but i dont see any reason for his reaction not too.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

Naruto was 14 meters away.

Reacting to a subsonic arrow from 14 m doesn't necessarily mean that you have subsonic reactions.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

hmm well okay then.

 

[LlamaGod1411]

Just a curious question, but what is the minimum speed a character can have by dodging a Mach21k energy beam from a distance of 14m? A rough estimate.

 

[Omimi]

Naruto was 14 meters away.
Reacting to a subsonic arrow from 14 m doesn't necessarily mean that you have subsonic reactions.

b4 Toneri's GWRE could hit him

naruto was able to cover some distance and use his hand to block GWRE

+he did it casually

@Gwynbleiddd

can u explaine why Naruto's speed from this.............. is calc stacking

 

[TataHakai]

Correlating the power level of a character with the speed of a projectile/beam of produced by a weaker character makes no sense.Especially since we are talking about things without physical substance (or small mass).
By the logic of this thread: If i'm stronger than someone then i'm also faster than an arrow that launched by the guy i'm stronger.

I produce more work than the energy required for a LED to produce light, therefore i'm faster than light.

Another reason for this not to be accepted is the fact that Naruto doesn't have any feats near that speed.Which further backs up the skepticism behind my point.

But the speed of the attack doesn't come from a bow in this instance, it's literally being produced by Toneri himself thus i don't think that example works, whereas with an arrow the force of the speed is being applied by a continious build up of energy rather than one quick push like Toneri did, the longer you pull the bow the faster the arrow travels, thus proving the force is due to a continious build up, so sure, a human being could throw that fast if they could continually build up a force in their muscles like you do with a bow

If you're stronger than someone it generally means you have stronger muscles which could also relate to being faster than someone since the muscles in your legs generally define the speed at which they move and the amount of power in each step

And technically he does, since Sasuke was able to easily react to and blitz a meteor calc'd at just under sub relativistic (Mach 7500+), this was a casual and easy feat by Base Sasuke by the way

http://www.narutoforums.com/xfa-blog-entry/naruto-meteorite-speed.33410/

 

[DodoNova2]

I also think that naruto should be scaled, even if we divide the value of the speed by 2 (which is enormous) we always have a speed sub relat

Note that even though Naruto had time to run towards the attack, remove are Bijuu Mode and Tender hand ....

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Gwynbleiddd makes sense. Perhaps we should close this thread?

 

[DodoNova2]

It would be better to wait for the opinion of the creator of the thread no?

 

[KuuIchigo]

I agree with Gwyn. I don't remember any instance where we accepted this (probably because there are few of this).

 

[PaChi2]

Not having feats near that speed is irrelevant since this applies to a post-timeskiped movie. It should be treated separately (like you treat any timeskip).

Also, Toneri's reaction should be scaled to his attack speed because there is no indication that the attack was anything beyond his regular capabilities and it was made by a powered up form. Naruto would scale to Toneri.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

I brought the arrow as an example.

There is still a logical leap between someone's reaction speed and the speed of a beam with no physical substance like an energy beam.

Also if the beam traveled at mach 21900 (previously calced speed so this may count as calc stacking) the time it would take to travel 14 m (minimum distance required to reach Naruto) is 0.0000018802 seconds, which falls under Massively Hypersonic+ reactions .

 

[PaChi2]

Characters can react to their own attacks unless proven otherwise, cant they?

 

[Antvasima]

@PaChi2 Not necessarily, no.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

@PaChi2 Characters can react to attacks they have shown they can react to.

 

[Joseph619]

Characters can react to their own attacks unless proven otherwise, cant they?

Depends on the type of attacks, if it's projection based not necessarily.

 

[PaChi2]

Toneri casually creating an attack that far surpasses his own capabilities seems illogical to me. This isnt Derous' laser which got praised for its speed.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

Toneri's physical capabilities have no reason to correlate to the speed of his energy projection.

 

[Joseph619]

Derous laser was very close to Acacia who reacted to it nearly point blank. Naruto was pretty far away from Toneri here. Gwynbleid already calced it and it's not more than MHS+.

 

[PaChi2]

He needs those reactions in order to direct the attack towards naruto, right? because iirc, the attack stems directly from his palm all the time, its not a beam, its more like a.. sword.