where would Pathria-Good black hole cosmogenesis principle scale

[sukuna171]

i was looking thought destiny lore and found this

Spoiler

Oh, don't be so timid! An Arach of Dead Orbit driven to despair by the thought of other universes, when you should know the lore of Hubble volumes and Tegmark hierarchies by heart!

Our existence is real to us, vitally real, because it is ours. It's the only one we have. Even if we are simulations or imaginations, we have an inner life as rich as any "real" living thing, and so, we are equally real! When we die, we are dead, dead, dead.

We believe there are many timelines; does that lead us to discount the reality of our own? Do we stop caring about ourselves, Ikora Rey and Arach Jalaal, because in another timeline, we are already dead? Do I punish you because in another timeline, you murdered me? What matters to us… is us.

But it is possible for realities to be concatenated. The Awoken Distributary is an infinite universe, but it exists within our universe.

The Truth to Power documents constantly return to the question of black hole singularities, to their value as computers and as secret keepers. We are told our true purpose as Guardians is to hurl all we value into a black hole. We are told that Savathûn wants to enter the Distributary and slaughter those within to gain power.

The Pathria-Good black hole cosmogenesis principle of Golden Age physics confirms that the interior of a black hole is a new universe: all black holes produce their own interior cosmos. All cosmos, including our own, are probably the interior of a black hole in a parent universe.

The Truth to Power documents want it understood that Savathûn wishes to enter the Distributary in order to gain power in our parent universe.

The suggestion here is that it is possible for actions in a concatenated universe to grant power in the parent universe.

 

[Zeldris98764]

I'm unsure but I'll make an assumption.

Assuming the Pathria-Good principle works as described (each black hole birthing a new universe, nested hierarchically), and given the Awoken Distributary is an infinite universe within another, this implies a countably infinite multiverse. That would baseline at 2-A for affecting infinite space-time continuums

If the hierarchy is countably infinite (infinitely nested universes), it’d align with 2-A for affecting infinite space-time continuums. So baseline 2-A seems reasonable

If there's anything that would support higher-dimensional transcendence (e.g., the Distributary or parent universe operating on a qualitatively superior plane), that could change things, although I don't know about this.

 

[sukuna171]

If there's anything that would support higher-dimensional transcendence (e.g., the Distributary or parent universe operating on a qualitatively superior plane), that could change things, although I don't know about this.

She has convinced tens of thousands of Awoken to abandon their immortality. She has deprived the Distributary an infinite. quantity of joy, companionship, labor, and discovery: all the works that might be accomplished by all the people who will join her in her mission to another world. When she lies awake at night, seized by anxiety, she tries to tally up the loss in her head, but it is too huge, and it becomes a formless thing that stalks her down the pathways of her bones like the creak of a gravity wave.

"Some infinities are larger than others," she tells her old captain. "I believe… we are here for a reason, and this is the way to fulfill that purpose."

 

[Zeldris98764]

She has convinced tens of thousands of Awoken to abandon their immortality. She has deprived the Distributary an infinite. quantity of joy, companionship, labor, and discovery: all the works that might be accomplished by all the people who will join her in her mission to another world. When she lies awake at night, seized by anxiety, she tries to tally up the loss in her head, but it is too huge, and it becomes a formless thing that stalks her down the pathways of her bones like the creak of a gravity wave.

"Some infinities are larger than others," she tells her old captain. "I believe… we are here for a reason, and this is the way to fulfill that purpose."

Hm, so the quote about "some infinities being larger than others" references Cantor’s mathematical concept of cardinality (countable vs. uncountable infinities), which could imply the Distributary’s structure involves uncountable infinities (e.g., ℝ/real numbers) rather than just countably infinite universes. If the Distributary’s "infinite quantity of joy/labor" is an uncountable infinite (like a continuum), this might suggest its universe operates on a higher-dimensional or qualitatively superior scale (e.g., 5D/uncountably infinite 4D space-time).

However, unless lore explicitly ties this to dimensional transcendence (e.g., the Distributary being a 5D plane or R>F over 4D universes), it’s safer to assume it’s still 2-A. The "larger infinities" line is more metaphorical here, it emphasizes moral weight, not necessarily cosmological tiering. For Low 1-C or higher, you'd need direct statements about dimensional superiority. As-is, stick with 2-A unless there’s clearer evidence.

 

[sukuna171]

Hm, so the quote about "some infinities being larger than others" references Cantor’s mathematical concept of cardinality (countable vs. uncountable infinities), which could imply the Distributary’s structure involves uncountable infinities (e.g., ℝ/real numbers) rather than just countably infinite universes. If the Distributary’s "infinite quantity of joy/labor" is an uncountable infinite (like a continuum), this might suggest its universe operates on a higher-dimensional or qualitatively superior scale (e.g., 5D/uncountably infinite 4D space-time).

However, unless lore explicitly ties this to dimensional transcendence (e.g., the Distributary being a 5D plane or R>F over 4D universes), it’s safer to assume it’s still 2-A. The "larger infinities" line is more metaphorical here, it emphasizes moral weight, not necessarily cosmological tiering. For Low 1-C or higher, you'd need direct statements about dimensional superiority. As-is, stick with 2-A unless there’s clearer evidence.

i found this does it mean anything

Spoiler

The universe is infinite and probably in multiple ways,” I said. Then I listed a few examples: The census of stars, the Many-Worlds principle in quantum mechanics, and the endless measure of tiny realms hiding inside every grain of Martian sand.

 

[Zeldris98764]

i found this does it mean anything

Spoiler

The universe is infinite and probably in multiple ways,” I said. Then I listed a few examples: The census of stars, the Many-Worlds principle in quantum mechanics, and the endless measure of tiny realms hiding inside every grain of Martian sand.

Well, "infinite in multiple ways" points to a multiverse with infinite spatial scale (endless stars), quantum branching (Many-Worlds timelines), and microrealms within particles. These are all variations of infinite 4D space-time, expansive, but not inherently higher-dimensional.

Many-Worlds quantum branching alone fits a standard 2-A (infinite universes) structure. The microrealms inside Martian sand could be pocket dimensions, but unless they're explicitly higher-dimensional (like 5D) or shown to be qualitatively superior, they don't elevate the tier beyond 2-A.

For Low 1-C (5D+) or higher, you'd need direct confirmation that any of these infinities operate on a higher plane—like the sand realms being 5D, or the parent universe transcending them ontologically. Right now, I believe this is just more evidence for an infinite 4D multiverse, not higher-dimensional scaling.

 

[sukuna171]

A brief final question: would this be considered low 1C?

Spoiler

Atheon waits in the Vault of Glass. Just as Atheon sidesteps 'past' and 'future', it is impossible to say whether Atheon created the Vault or the Vault created Atheon. Causal pathways converge on Atheon from every axis in the space-time bulk.

 

[Zeldris98764]

A brief final question: would this be considered low 1C?

Spoiler

Atheon waits in the Vault of Glass. Just as Atheon sidesteps 'past' and 'future', it is impossible to say whether Atheon created the Vault or the Vault created Atheon. Causal pathways converge on Atheon from every axis in the space-time bulk.

I'm not certain but I don't think so. "Space-time bulk" probably refers to to the standard 4D space-time continuum. The term "every axis" here likely refers to Atheon’s influence over all timelines (past, present, future) and causal pathways within 4D, not higher-dimensional axes.

 

[SweetDao]

Not impossible for it to be into tier 1 territory actually if you have more substantial evidence. I'm unsure if "singularities" would be enough of a quantitative difference. Perhaps, perhaps not.

 

[sukuna171]

Not impossible for it to be into tier 1 territory actually if you have more substantial evidence. I'm unsure if "singularities" would be enough of a quantitative difference. Perhaps, perhaps not.

Does this suggest a quantitative difference?

Spoiler

Oh. I see. I see! A literary structure like that is called a chiasmus, and chiasmus means "crossing point"! Like a wormhole or a portal! It was hidden in plain sight.

But then we must act urgently to stop this! Savathûn cannot be allowed to depart our universe into some reality superordinate to ours—

But now you'll tell me: so what if she does? What can she do to us out there?

 

[SweetDao]

Does this suggest a quantitative difference?

Spoiler

Oh. I see. I see! A literary structure like that is called a chiasmus, and chiasmus means "crossing point"! Like a wormhole or a portal! It was hidden in plain sight.

But then we must act urgently to stop this! Savathûn cannot be allowed to depart our universe into some reality superordinate to ours—

But now you'll tell me: so what if she does? What can she do to us out there?

The only point that did was the "black hole" stuff in the OP, I don't think this one adds anything

 

[sukuna171]

Not impossible for it to be into tier 1 territory actually if you have more substantial evidence. I'm unsure if "singularities" would be enough of a quantitative difference. Perhaps, perhaps not.

Isn't instant death cosmology kind of a water down version of this

 

[SweetDao]

Isn't instant death cosmology kind of a water down version of this

Absolutely not.

 

[sukuna171]

Absolutely not.

Dang hopefully one day I can get yogiri vs the Witnesse