When The Revision Cries - Episode 3: Banquet of the New Tiering System

[Wankbreaker]

I don't know bruh, I think it just a higher ontology than an entire hierarchy altogether.

Also, I would like to be pointed to the scans in the OP that are supporting this.

The scans:




Instead of a r>f hierarchical relationship, it’s basically an ontological measure of how close you are to the creator, in other words, how close you are to even transcending the limits of your own meaning, and becoming a creator in exchange for your sense of self. Featherine’s avatar being the closest to the creator supports this, as she could literally just take her horseshoe memory device thing off and her sense of self would completely fade.

The “gods” in this case would be the beings that reside in this domain, but aren’t creators, as they still have a sense of self.

 

[Iiliminal]

Cope, Umineko was REBUNKED, Creators are above Voyagers and the layers are BOUNDLESS

 

[Guardian_Doge]

Cope, Umineko was REBUNKED, Creators are above Voyagers and the layers are BOUNDLESS

wrong wrong wrong.....debunked debunked debunked.....

 

[Wankbreaker]

Cope, Umineko was REBUNKED, Creators are above Voyagers and the layers are BOUNDLESS

all of that for Goku to still solo.

 

[Karabach-barabach]

Cope, Umineko was REBUNKED, Creators are above Voyagers and the layers are BOUNDLESS

Future Maria still slams

 

[MrKerf]

Maan, you’re not making Ultima’s job any easier with all this talking taking up 4 pages.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Maan, you’re not making Ultima’s job any easier with all this talking taking up 4 pages.

nah, we’d win
(This discussion was going to pop up either way, better to do it BEFORE ultima gets here)

 

[Wankbreaker]

Just noticed I can mention people now. Sweet.
@Ultima_Reality can you settle this dispute on whether the third domain qualifies for high 1-A? If so, why or why not?

 

[Antvasima]

@Ultima_Reality

I was told that members here need you to settle a dispute.

When The Revision Cries - Episode 3: Banquet of the New Tiering System

I’m going to ignore the Creator section. Based on what I’ve seen people bringing up some controversial things, I don’t think it qualifies for 0. With that being said, reading the portion for High 1-A isn’t enough. It’s seems more akin to additional layers in 1-A. The rest seems fine. Why dont...

vsbattles.com

 

[Ihsjihahxu]

The creator changed from 0 to H1A above baseline infinity?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Why dont you think it's enough? its pretty much text book high 1-A.

What system does it transcends outside the notion that's it higher in the 1-A hierarchy as opposed to completely being in a hierarchy above that? The justification for it seems to favor the former.

 

[HigashikataJobin]

The creator changed from 0 to H1A above baseline infinity?

It seems so.

 

[HigashikataJobin]

What system transcends outside the notion that's it higher in the 1-A hierarchy as opposed to completely being in a hierarchy above that? The justification for it seems to favor the former.

No matter how much higher you go into 1-A/1-A+ levels, Featherine will be above all of them.

Featherine, a resident of the Domain of the Gods, views a 1-A+ hierarchy as a giant tabbletop roleplaying game - it's literally described that way in the novel - and she, as a literal Game Master, is freely to warp this hierarchy as she sees fit, ignoring completely the rules and fundamental forces that comprises it. Even though this Domain have greater, bigger structures than the already 1-A+ ladders (Depths of Oblivion), everything will be seen by Featherine as just a game of imagination and she can rewrite that game to her heart's content. 1-A+ beings such as the Voyager Witches, which are themselves in their true nature fundamental forces that make the Witch Domain function, in the end of the day are just characters in a roleplaying game to Fea, who can erase them the same way a D&D DM would narrate the death of the most powerful character in the game setting and that's it, the character will die.

Featherine's avatar actually are absolutely and infinitely more powerful than Bernkastel, Lambdadelta and every single witch combined. Featherine just created her avatar to be this way, and no rule can prevent her from doing so, since as I said, she's the GM and the Witch Domain is just a setting in a game and she is freely to add or remove new structures, rules, concepts and etcetera. Literally her avatar is a powergame, gamebroken self-insert OC goddess who is above the entirely of the cosmos, in the same manner of that type of child who says "my superpower is to have every superpower and be immune to everything". Thing is: for the Witch Domain residents, it's not just a "game", it's reality, and now you have a being who can kill the "most powerful witch in the universe" by just thinking. So, no matter how high of a 1-A+ character you are, Featherine will say that her, again, self-insert OC omnipotent goddess is above you and can kill you and the only thing you can do is accept it, cause you are a character in a story and she's the writer.

(And again, I'm NOT making a comparison/metaphor of how the Gods Domain works, what I said above is letter by letter how characters in the Domain of the Gods interact with the rest of the cosmology).

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

No matter how much higher you go into 1-A/1-A+ levels, Featherine will be above all of them.

That's not what gets you High 1-A. At least without further context.

Featherine, a resident of the Domain of the Gods, views a 1-A+ hierarchy as a giant tabbletop roleplaying game - it's literally described that way in the novel - and she, as a literal Game Master, is freely to warp this hierarchy as she sees fit, ignoring completely the rules and fundamental forces that comprises it. Even though this Domain have greater, bigger structures than the already 1-A+ ladders (Depths of Oblivion), everything will be seen by Featherine as just a game of imagination and she can rewrite that game to her heart's content. 1-A+ beings such as the Voyager Witches, which are themselves in their true nature fundamental forces that make the Witch Domain function, in the end of the day are just characters in a roleplaying game to Fea, who can erase them the same way a D&D DM would narrate the death of the most powerful character in the game setting and that's it, the character will die.

If it's akin to them being imaginary to her where they're nothing but fictional. That would mean unless she directly allows it, they cannot commute with her in the same vein that 1-A being “qualitatively superior” would mean they can't interact with lower beings without the 1-A character itself allowing them to or some sort of higher power grants, or if they're in the same level of existence to which each hierarchy up is more real than the last.

So, Featherine would have to operate at a level that transcends the notion of a 1-A hierarchy in the same vein, that 1-A does to everything below it. So if she sees the the entirety of the endless ladder as nothing more than fiction, cannot be communicated at that level, and she's on a level of existence separate from a lower hierarchy then, yeah, High 1-A is fine.

If you could name some examples of those criteria.

Featherine's avatar actually are absolutely and infinitely more powerful than Bernkastel, Lambdadelta and every single witch combined. Featherine just created her avatar to be this way, and no rule can prevent her from doing so, since as I said, she's the GM and the Witch Domain is just a setting in a game and she is freely to add or remove new structures, rules, concepts and etcetera. Literally her avatar is a powergame, gamebroken self-insert OC goddess who is above the entirely of the cosmos, in the same manner of that type of child who says "my superpower is to have every superpower and be immune to everything". Thing is: for the Witch Domain residents, it's not just a "game", it's reality, and now you have a being who can kill the "most powerful witch in the universe" by just thinking. So, no matter how high of a 1-A+ character you are, Featherine will say that her, again, self-insert OC omnipotent goddess is above you and can kill you and the only thing you can do is accept it, cause you are a character in a story and she's the writer.

Being infinitely above 1-A+ is still 1-A+ because you are operating in the same hierarchy. So her avatar would still scale to the hierarchy, even if she is the top/apex of it.

 

[Voidnether]

Interesting, so it's not High 1-A+ because Featherine encompasses everything in Umineko even the High 1-A structure (SweetDao and Wankbreaker debating over this was fire )

Yeah, sure if the staff agrees with just High 1-A because Featherine encompasses the structure of 1-A+ and below as a whole. We had this type of thing happening with Chinese Fiction too so it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[HigashikataJobin]

If it's akin to them being imaginary to her where they're nothing but fictional. That would mean unless she directly allows it, they cannot commute with her in the same vein that 1-A being “qualitatively superior” would mean they can't interact with lower beings without the 1-A character itself allowing them to or some sort of higher power grants, or if they're in the same level of existence to which each hierarchy up is more real than the last.

So, Featherine would have to operate at a level that transcends the notion of a 1-A hierarchy in the same vein, that 1-A does to everything below it. So if she sees the the entirety of the endless ladder as nothing more than fiction, cannot be communicated at that level, and she's on a level of existence separate from a lower hierarchy then, yeah, High 1-A is fine.

That's pretty much the level of Featherine described in the novel. She meets all the criteria that you described, since:
1. She exists in the Domain of the Gods, which are described to view the Witch Domain (1-A+) on the same way the Witch Domain is in relation to the Human Domain (Low 1-C), and as described in Memoirs of Lambdadelta, the inhabitants in that domain are untouchable to the lower beings in the lower domains (Lambda also describes them as omnipotent, omniscient and without any limit).
2. Witches view the Human Domain and the gameboards of lower witches as a tabbletop roleplaying game. Beatrice is the best example of that: she is the Game Master of the game of the Rokkenjima Incident. She controls the scenario (Rokkenjima Island), the characters (Battler's family), the enemies (Seven Stakes of Purgatory and demons), the rules, the story, the power system itself inside the gameboard and so on. It's literally the same way as a D&D game, and she's the Dungeon Master, controlling the monsters and narrating to Battler what is happening in the game - except she doesn't "narrate it", the events unfold to both of them.
3. With that in mind, Featherine is described as having that same level of power of the witches but with the entirely of the Witch Domain. She's above all stories, all gameboards, all gamemasters; she can control every single character in the Witch Domain, she can narrate whatever she comes in mind with, she can erase characters from the story as if they never were, and she can freely change the scenario (1-A+ structures). All that exists bellow her is a game of imagination/story.
4. Indeed, her avatar will still be 1-A+. However, I mentioned her avatar form to further prove that, to her, everything below is a game, since her avatar/piece even despite being in a 1-A+ hierachy completely brokes it, being unrestricted by any rules and having any power she desires to have. Featherine describes that her witch form and her human avatar have the same value as just characters in a story that she controls.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

That's pretty much the level of Featherine described in the novel. She meets all the criteria that you described, since:
1. She exists in the Domain of the Gods, which are described to view the Witch Domain (1-A+) on the same way the Witch Domain is in relation to the Human Domain (Low 1-C), and as described in Memoirs of Lambdadelta, the inhabitants in that domain are untouchable to the lower beings in the lower domains (Lambda also describes them as omnipotent, omniscient and without any limit).
2. Witches view the Human Domain and the gameboards of lower witches as a tabbletop roleplaying game. Beatrice is the best example of that: she is the Game Master of the game of the Rokkenjima Incident. She controls the scenario (Rokkenjima Island), the characters (Battler's family), the enemies (Seven Stakes of Purgatory and demons), the rules, the story, the power system itself inside the gameboard and so on. It's literally the same way as a D&D game, and she's the Dungeon Master, controlling the monsters and narrating to Battler what is happening in the game - except she doesn't "narrate it", the events unfold to both of them.
3. With that in mind, Featherine is described as having that same level of power of the witches but with the entirely of the Witch Domain. She's above all stories, all gameboards, all gamemasters; she can control every single character in the Witch Domain, she can narrate whatever she comes in mind with, she can erase characters from the story as if they never were, and she can freely change the scenario (1-A+ structures). All that exists bellow her is a game of imagination/story.
4. Indeed, her avatar will still be 1-A+. However, I mentioned her avatar form to further prove that, to her, everything below is a game, since her avatar/piece even despite being in a 1-A+ hierachy completely brokes it, being unrestricted by any rules and having any power she desires to have. Featherine describes that her witch form and her human avatar have the same value as just characters in a story that she controls.

Interesting, I'm neutral for now.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Interesting, I'm neutral for now.

Like I’ve said a few days ago:

1. The 3rd domain is free from the cycle of life and death. This doesn’t seem relevant at first, but witch featherine was infinitely dying and reincarnating, each rebirth bringing her higher up into one of these r>f layers. This means that the third domain is free from any and all extension of that.

2. Featherine from the 3rd domain sees both witches and humans as equally insignificant. (Seeing the difference between 1-A and everything below it as nonexistent is evidence for h 1-a im pretty sure.)

3. The hierarchy here isn’t one of r>f,but how ontologically close you are to the creator.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

2. Featherine from the 3rd domain sees both witches and humans as equally insignificant. (Seeing the difference between 1-A and everything below it as nonexistent is evidence for h 1-a im pretty sure.)

Not really convinced here. “insignificance” here would still imply some sort of higher existence within the same hierarchy. The difference between 1-A and the things below isn't High 1-A.

3. The hierarchy here isn’t one of r>f,but how ontologically close you are to the creator.

Nah, doesn't really do much.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Not really convinced here. “insignificance” here would still imply some sort of higher existence within the same hierarchy. The difference between 1-A and the things below isn't High 1-A.

nonexistent would be more of the correct term, as she literally doesn’t see a difference between witches and humans. This would mean she exists outside of the qualitative hierarchy. Pretty sure Dragon Talisman got high 1-A for pretty much the exact same reason.

Nah, doesn't really do much.

 

[Delta333]

Pretty sure Dragon Talisman got high 1-A for pretty much the exact same reason.

Because the verse has tons of statements regarding Apophatic nature actually.

 

[IlekVad14]

So, Featherine would have to operate at a level that transcends the notion of a 1-A hierarchy in the same vein, that 1-A does to everything below it. So if she sees the the entirety of the endless ladder as nothing more than fiction, cannot be communicated at that level, and she's on a level of existence separate from a lower hierarchy then, yeah, High 1-A is fine.

Yeah that's pretty much Featherine’s existence beyond the Witch Domain. Like someone else mentioned, both the human world and the meta-world are seen as equally insignificant, akin to two different backgrounds in a theatre play. (which the series even uses as an analogy to explain the difference.) but what’s more important here is the idea of Featherine being a self-insert character, where she exists on a level far beyond the Witch Domain, where the infinite ladder is used as an analogy to represent the levels of which the witches can evolve and reach. The gap between Featherine's Avatar and the rest of the witch domain is like a witch endlessly climbing the ladder within the witch domain. No matter how high they go, Featherine will always be at the top, unreachable. She would be at the end, and frankly speaking beyond this infinite ascension.

Before going any deeper, let me clarify how the Witch Domain is structured. There are two kinds of fragments.

1. Fragments that represent possibilities (or parallel worlds), which are found inside individual Catboxes.

2. Fragments that represent territories, which are part of the layers (Infinite Ladder) in the Witch Hierarchy.

For example, from the perspective of Voyagers like Bernkastel, Beatrice’s entire Catbox is viewed as just a regular singular fragment. Voyagers can travel through the True Sea of Fragments (SoF), in search for different stories and something to ease their boredom. In this sense, Beatrice’s Catbox is just another “story” or “tale” that Voyagers can interact with. But within her Catbox, a separate Sea of Fragments is created, forming its own set of universes and worlds.

The True Sea of Fragments refers to the fragments inside the City of Books, which is made up of all these territorial Catboxes (Example would be Beatrice's and Bernkastel's). From the SoF perspective, everything, no matter how large or complex, is ultimately equally insignificant. It is all reduced to the level of a single fragment and in turn, less than a single line inside one of these books (iirc the entirety of the witch domain was stated to be less than a line in one of those books), which fits with what I mentioned earlier.

Now, from what I said above, we can see that Lambdadelta, another Voyager, would exist on a level far beyond the normal witch territories. Her existence would be completely detached from those lower realities. She is one of the Witches of Senate and can access this very same City Of Books I mentioned above, not to mention, both her and Bernkastel can damage and destroy parts of CoB (which encompasses what I stated above). Keeping this in mind, Lambdadelta got oneshot by the very same avatar I was referring to earlier, existing in a total different reality from the level of which Lambdadelta exists on. Featherine's Witch Avatar was already beyond, and ultimately outside, the entire hierarchy of R>F transcendences between each Territory Lord in the witch domain, all the way up to the City of Books (CoB). And THEN, there’s Featherine’s "True Form" beyond this, which is the one that inserted this avatar into the story to play a specific role.

If this doesn’t warrant a H-1A rating, I’m not sure what would, even outside of the 07th Expansion. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Infinitinet]

I agree with this thread.

Heaven and Hell are not higher layers but higher dimensions in the Kakera IIRC.

Maria becoming a Creator was a sure thing so I disagree with the removal of the key. This makes her similar to the voyagers.

 

[Ovy7]

Heaven and Hell are not higher layers but higher dimensions in the Kakera IIRC.

Depends on which Heaven and Hell you are talking about. Like, a Kakera can have an entire afterlife cosmology in it and it would be bellow the Witch Domain (like with Hotarubi, which has the Buddhist Heaven and Hell as part of the Kakera), but stuff like The Great Court of Heaven are definity a layer of the Witch Domain.

 

[Infinitinet]

but stuff like The Great Court of Heaven are definity a layer of the Witch Domain.

Sure, but it being higher than Bernkastel's catbox doesn't match up with her viewing him as a piece.

 

[Accelerate420]

Sure, but it being higher than Bernkastel's catbox doesn't match up with her viewing him as a piece.

What does that have to do with the Great Court of Heaven?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

nonexistent would be more of the correct term, as she literally doesn’t see a difference between witches and humans. This would mean she exists outside of the qualitative hierarchy. Pretty sure Dragon Talisman got high 1-A for pretty much the exact same reason.

I will go back to an earlier point which was mentioned several times during this thread. If Featherine views the Voyagers Witches in the same vein that the Witches view the humans to imply qualitative superiority. That's not really something for High 1-A, that's just an additional layer of R>F in the same qualitative hierarchy.

As for the “non-existent” part, seeing something as nothing on a scale is just a hard-to-gauge statement, and doesn't really attest to much if anything.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Yeah that's pretty much Featherine’s existence beyond the Witch Domain. Like someone else mentioned, both the human world and the meta-world are seen as equally insignificant, akin to two different backgrounds in a theatre play. (which the series even uses as an analogy to explain the difference.) but what’s more important here is the idea of Featherine being a self-insert character, where she exists on a level far beyond the Witch Domain, where the infinite ladder is used as an analogy to represent the levels of which the witches can evolve and reach. The gap between Featherine's Avatar and the rest of the witch domain is like a witch endlessly climbing the ladder within the witch domain. No matter how high they go, Featherine will always be at the top, unreachable. She would be at the end, and frankly speaking beyond this infinite ascension.

If she's at the “top” then she's still within the same hierarchy, just on a different level of existence.

For example, from the perspective of Voyagers like Bernkastel, Beatrice’s entire Catbox is viewed as just a regular singular fragment. Voyagers can travel through the True Sea of Fragments (SoF), in search for different stories and something to ease their boredom. In this sense, Beatrice’s Catbox is just another “story” or “tale” that Voyagers can interact with. But within her Catbox, a separate Sea of Fragments is created, forming its own set of universes and worlds.

Doesn't seem to imply much unless they're literally toning down their existence to interact with the stories.

The True Sea of Fragments refers to the fragments inside the City of Books, which is made up of all these territorial Catboxes (Example would be Beatrice's and Bernkastel's). From the SoF perspective, everything, no matter how large or complex, is ultimately equally insignificant. It is all reduced to the level of a single fragment and in turn, less than a single line inside one of these books (iirc the entirety of the witch domain was stated to be less than a line in one of those books), which fits with what I mentioned earlier.

That just seems like an additional layer. It's not so much viewing something as “insignificant.” It is more so the relation that High 1-A has is similar to 1-A as that's treated as qualitative superiority due to its ontological superiority over everything below it. High 1-A is the same, but in the sense, that it transcends the notion of how 1-A views each additional higher layer, and transcends the framework of what makes qualitative superior then you’re High 1-A. The evidence provided doesn't seem to speak of it.

Now, from what I said above, we can see that Lambdadelta, another Voyager, would exist on a level far beyond the normal witch territories. Her existence would be completely detached from those lower realities. She is one of the Witches of Senate and can access this very same City Of Books I mentioned above, not to mention, both her and Bernkastel can damage and destroy parts of CoB (which encompasses what I stated above). Keeping this in mind, Lambdadelta got oneshot by the very same avatar I was referring to earlier, existing in a total different reality from the level of which Lambdadelta exists on. Featherine's Witch Avatar was already beyond, and ultimately outside, the entire hierarchy of R>F transcendences between each Territory Lord in the witch domain, all the way up to the City of Books (CoB). And THEN, there’s Featherine’s "True Form" beyond this, which is the one that inserted this avatar into the story to play a specific role.

That's seems more like you making it more convenient for High 1-A. The Avatar one-shotting Lamdadelta, because it was on a higher level of existence, would be sufficient, it said the avatar was simply one another level of R>F. Though doing things in thing in the City of Books meant to be a higher level of existence is a sort of anti-feat.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Because the verse has tons of statements regarding Apophatic nature actually.

If it’s not tier 0, that goes nowhere.

 

[henryzx900ruly]

Cope, Umineko was REBUNKED, Creators are above Voyagers and the layers are BOUNDLESS

Keep cry kids feathering solos, also I agree with this blog.

 

[Voidnether]

Keep cry kids feathering solos, also I agree with this blog.

Ah, yes, feathering. A counterpart of featherine who has qualitative inferiority compared to featherine (below 11-C)

 

[Wankbreaker]

I will go back to an earlier point which was mentioned several times during this thread. If Featherine views the Voyagers Witches in the same vein that the Witches view the humans to imply qualitative superiority. That's not really something for High 1-A, that's just an additional layer of R>F in the same qualitative hierarchy.

It’s not meant to be she sees the witches as fiction, just like the witches see humans as fiction, it’s meant to be she completely and utterly exceeds all extensions of the witch domain,just like witches do humans. See point one of my earlier comment why the third domain being witch domain+1 makes absolutely 0 sense.

As for the “non-existent” part, seeing something as nothing on a scale is just a hard-to-gauge statement, and doesn't really attest to much if anything.

Seeing the difference between 1-A and the rest of the tiering system as “nothing” is the reason why DT got H1-A, transcending the duality between 1-A and non 1-A

 

[Wankbreaker]

If she's at the “top” then she's still within the same hierarchy, just on a different level of existence.

not really? Just the highest existence in the cosmology, which Piece confirms.

Doesn't seem to imply much unless they're literally toning down their existence to interact with the stories.

That’s what happens. Whenever witches want to interfere in a lower layer, they create inferior “pieces”

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

It’s not meant to be she sees the witches as fiction, just like the witches see humans as fiction, it’s meant to be she completely and utterly exceeds all extensions of the witch domain,just like witches do humans. See point one of my earlier comment why the third domain being witch domain+1 makes absolutely 0 sense.

You're prefacing that like the Witches relation to humans as being the same as how Featherine sees the witches then it still would be 1-A. Due to the nature of said transcendence being qualitative in nature.

Suppose, that the very nature of the layering in the Witches Domain being transcended is what you mean by utterly exceeding all extensions then maybe High 1-A works, but if it is similar to my statement up top then, it could just literally mean another layer in a 1-A hierarchy.

Seeing the difference between 1-A and the rest of the tiering system as “nothing” is the reason why DT got H1-A, transcending the duality between 1-A and non 1-A

The statements themselves bar nothing without any additional context. For Uminkeo's case, I don't find it relatively strong based on what was argued previously.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

not really? Just the highest existence in the cosmology, which Piece confirms.

I suppose if Featherine exist outside of any Witches domain, influence, and powers. Then I see it as fine as long as she completely detached from this version of a hierarchy purely on meta-qualitative transcendence. That's what I'm going to leave it -/z

That’s what happens. Whenever witches want to interfere in a lower layer, they create inferior “pieces”

Would you count where she resides as a completely separate and transcendental realm that has no relation to the Witches domain? Making her true form impossible to commute with the lower beings' power alone?

If so, there can be a case for High 1-A. I'm not very convinced with what I've read, though I'm not entirely against the idea.

 

[HigashikataJobin]

Would you count where she resides as a completely separate and transcendental realm that has no relation to the Witches domain? Making her true form impossible to commute with the lower beings' power alone?

If so, there can be a case for High 1-A. I'm not very convinced with what I've read, though I'm not entirely against the idea.

Well, that's what Featherine is, as I said in my previous comments. The residents of the Third Domain are completely above, unreachable to the Voyager Witches, which are the strongest creatures in the Witch Domain. Lambdadelta and Piece describes Featherine that way, an omnipotent being that the only little limits she have exist because she wants them or purpose, and who is above all the Witch Domain and sees it as a gameboard which she can manipulate freely.

The only way the Witches in Umineko can talk with Featherine is with her witch avatar, otherwise it's completely impossible.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Well, that's what Featherine is, as I said in my previous comments. The residents of the Third Domain are completely above, unreachable to the Voyager Witches, which are the strongest creatures in the Witch Domain. Lambdadelta and Piece describes Featherine that way, an omnipotent being that the only little limits she have exist because she wants them or purpose, and who is above all the Witch Domain and sees it as a gameboard which she can manipulate freely.

The only way the Witches in Umineko can talk with Featherine is with her witch avatar, otherwise it's completely impossible.

I suppose 1-A | High 1-A could work based on her avatar and her true form.

 

[HigashikataJobin]

I suppose 1-A | High 1-A could work based on her avatar and her true form.

That's what I though, too.

 

[HigashikataJobin]

However, we need moderators/staff to view this thread and give their opinion.

 

[IlekVad14]

Doesn't seem to imply much unless they're literally toning down their existence to interact with the stories.

Which is pretty much what they are doing. Bernkastel in this case would view Beatrice's Catbox no different from any other Catbox that would be lower and higher than Beatrice's all the way up to the CoB. The bernkastel we see is just a guest that manifests in the Catbox to fill out her role in the overarching story called umineko, that's all.

If she's at the “top” then she's still within the same hierarchy, just on a different level of existence.

I was just using this as an analogy to explain the structure. The "top" here would be the City of Books, which is basically where the Witch Domain ends. It’s where all possible stories are stored in the form of books, each representing a different "witch domain". Umineko is just one book out of infinite others.

That just seems like an additional layer. It's not so much viewing something as “insignificant.” It is more so the relation that High 1-A has is similar to 1-A as that's treated as qualitative superiority due to its ontological superiority over everything below it. High 1-A is the same, but in the sense, that it transcends the notion of how 1-A views each additional higher layer, and transcends the framework of what makes qualitative superior then you’re High 1-A. The evidence provided doesn't seem to speak of it.

The evolution show us that each higher level views the one below it as nothing more than fiction or something insignificant. With the way it works, moving to a higher level requires permission from a higher-order being. Without it, no matter how much you ascend, you’d never reach them. This is the same logic that applies between the human domain and the witches, where there's a clear R>F difference and the process is infinite. Cob would see all these transcendences as equally insignificant, including 1A+ layers. And the avatar called Featherine can freely play with the entire witch domain. Beyond everything in the witch domain as a whole, including Featherine (witch avatar) would be the 3rd domain where the entity that self-inserted itself into umineko calling itself Featherine resides.

That's seems more like you making it more convenient for High 1-A. The Avatar one-shotting Lamdadelta, because it was on a higher level of existence, would be sufficient, it said the avatar was simply one another level of R>F. Though doing things in thing in the City of Books meant to be a higher level of existence is a sort of anti-feat.

Sorry but I couldn't understand what you said here.

The only way the Witches in Umineko can talk with Featherine is with her witch avatar, otherwise it's completely impossible.

Also this.
Edit, Nvm you already saw it.

Also, It is probably best to stop clogging up the thread for now. Hopefully, the mods or admins can take a look at this soon and evaluate it.