What's an "insignificant" dimension?

[HammerStrikes219]

Indeed, but we're talking about if a fictional verse uses the theoretical logic in-verse or not.

For the container part, indeed, that really depends on context. I mean, a bigger box can be filled with smaller boxes to the point that there's no space left, but that doesn't mean the bigger box is infinite. So in the end, it all depends on context.

Although not fully sure, I think we deny multipliers after tier 2 on this wiki based on the logic that the space between universes is "unknown", so that technically means above Low 2-C ratings account for hyperspaces between space-times as well. Although, once again, I'm not fully sure.

We drop the multipliers for Tier 2 for this exact reason. The Distance between universes has been theorized as being completely separate from one another by time and space.



There is no measurement to say the least

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Not really I think? As far as I understand it, affecting multiple low 2-C structures inside of a larger 5D structure doesn't necessarily mean you're "significantly affecting" the container itself. In other words you don't necessarily need to "significantly affect" the 4th spatial dimension to affect the individual spacetime continuums?

You still significantly affecting multiple 4D universes is what been mentioned there.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Indeed, and that's what I clarified before presenting that part of the theory in my first post.

I mean, I just said it would be higher into High 3-A and not Low 2-C because we don't have any additional tier for "multiple infinite 3-D Spaces", whereas we do, in fact, have additional tiers for "multiple 4D Space-times", so you're forgetting that part.

It also depends on if [and how] the standards deal with the space between universes.

Fair enough.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

We drop the multipliers for Tier 2 for this exact reason. The Distance between universes has been theorized as being completely separate from one another by time and space.
There is no measurement to say the least

True. Since the Space between universes is neither one of the 3 normal spatial dimensions nor the 4th time dimension. Ordering it by dimensionality, it would be the 5th dimension. Ordering it by Space only, it would be the 4th spatial axis.

This is mainly why personally, I think those standards need a bit of change.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

True. Since the Space between universes is neither one of the 3 normal spatial dimensions nor the 4th time dimension. Ordering it by dimensionality, it would be the 5th dimension. Ordering it by Space only, it would be the 4th spatial axis.

This is mainly why personally, I think those standards need a bit of change.

One can make an argument that the space between universes as being a 4D container itself. The container has never stated or shown to being quantifiable superior to its own content.

Personally I don’t find the space between universes to being… compelling evidence for higher dimensional over 4D.

 

[Digital_Franz]

One can make an argument that the space between universes as being a 4D container itself. The container has never stated or shown to being quantifiable superior to its own content.

Personally I don’t find the space between universes to being… compelling evidence for higher dimensional over 4D.

This is all just in theory fr because huh a 3-D space can well contain another 3-D space.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

One can make an argument that the space between universes as being a 4D container itself. The container has never stated or shown to being quantifiable superior to its own content.

Well, "quantifiably superior" means it can be any X-times superior, where X can be finite, infinite, uncountably infinite, etc. since we treat qualitative superiority as a whole other thing now.

And, to be fair, the space between space-times is bound to be, spatial vise, the 4th spatial dimension, or at least that's what the theoretical framework says.

Personally I don’t find the space between universes to being… compelling evidence for higher dimensional over 4D.

That really depends on what kind of "higher dimensional over 4D" we're talking about.
I mean, if its to the point where we automatically consider space between universes as Low 1-C [5D; higher-dimensional compared to 4D], then definitely no.
But if it's about being 2-A or not, I think it should fit the theoretical standards.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

This is all just in theory fr because huh a 3-D space can well contain another 3-D space.

Exactly, just how a universe contains galaxies and all other celestial objects within it.

A container for all the universes will been considered a multiverse.

After all, a multiverse is simply for a group of universes. It is also hypothetically possible for 5D or Higher to exist as well.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

This is all just in theory fr because huh a 3-D space can well contain another 3-D space.

True. But pretty sure we assume Space-time causally isolates the outside from the inside. So the outside space of 4D space-time is bound to be 5D by order, significant or not.

Things get a bit different when it comes to "containers" when we're talking about causal and/or spatio-temporal isolation.

 

[Digital_Franz]

True. But pretty sure we assume Space-time causally isolates the outside from the inside. So the outside space of 4D space-time is bound to be 5D by order, significant or not.

Things get a bit different when it comes to "containers" when we're talking about causal and/or spatio-temporal isolation.

Yeah always in theory.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

True. But pretty sure we assume Space-time causally isolates the outside from the inside. So the outside space of 4D space-time is bound to be 5D by order, significant or not.

Things get a bit different when it comes to "containers" when we're talking about causal and/or spatio-temporal isolation.

Yeah, but within the said theoretical framework, it would mean universes are still bound on the 3D spatial and 4D time as well.

They still been on the same dimensional existence as the rest.

Although there is a opposite hypothetical scenario on if universes ain’t purely separated by time and space which don’t get me wrong, it is odd, but since fiction has people traveling from one universe to another universe by specific means, it does make sense in a way

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Yeah, but within the said theoretical framework, it would mean universes are still bound on the 3D spatial and 4D time as well.

That's what a space-time is, tho, a temporal enclosure of 3D Space.

They still been on the same dimensional existence as the rest.

The universes are all 4D as a space-time, of equivalent dimensionality, its the space in-between that's different.

Although there is a opposite hypothetical scenario on if universes ain’t purely separated by time and space which don’t get me wrong, it is odd, but since fiction has people traveling from one universe to another universe by specific means, it does make sense in a way

Well, yeah, if those universes are not enclosed spatio-temporally from each other, they wouldn't even be Low 2-C as a whole. An actual theory on that is Level 1 Multiverse from Tegmark.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

he universes are all 4D as a space-time, of equivalent dimensionality, its the space in-between that's different.

In theory I might add there. The Space in-between is the gaps between the universes which also make this suspicious set on being the same dimensional existence as the rest.

Well, yeah, if those universes are not enclosed spatio-temporally from each other, they wouldn't even be Low 2-C as a whole. An actual theory on that is Level 1 Multiverse from Tegmark.

Only one out of the many multiverse theories, mind ya.

Edit: Never mind on Level 1

 

[HammerStrikes219]

“The quilted multiverse works only in an infinite universe. With an infinite amount of space, every possible event will occur an infinite number of times.”

This has been used as well outside of Tegmark though

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

In theory I might add there. The Space in-between is the gaps between the universes which also make this suspicious set on being the rest same dimensional existence as the rest.

About that
First and foremost, the dimensions of a space-time are:

• Spatial dimension -> R1
• Spatial dimension -> R2
• spatial dimension -> R3
• Temporal dimension -> R4

As I stated before, a dimensional axis is fundamentally an additional perpendicular direction. So, the space between space-times cannot be any of the first 3 spatial dimensions because that wouldn't really "separate" universes from each other in a causative manner.

It also cannot extend along the same as the time dimension because that direction is already occupied by "Time". And, at that, since "Time" is assumed to be uncountably infinite in a space-time normally, it will encompass the entirety of the 4th dimension by order.

So the hyperspace between causally isolated space-times can really just be the 5th dimension in order.

Also that will been considered low 2C

Eh? I'm not too knowledgeable when it comes to Level 1 and Level 2, since it's been a really long time since I thoroughly read them, but I'm pretty sure the universes in a Level 1 are not spatio-temporally isolated, and each universe is just a Hubble Volume, with the next universe starting after the Hubble Volume of one of them ends. That essentially is just more then 1 3-A [physical universe] constructs enclosed in an infinite [High 3-A] Space, or at least, this is what I remember from when I thoroughly read it last time.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

First and foremost, the dimensions of a space-time are:

• Spatial dimension -> R1
• Spatial dimension -> R2
• spatial dimension -> R3
• Temporal dimension -> R4

As I stated before, a dimensional axis is fundamentally an additional perpendicular direction. So, the space between space-times cannot be any of the first 3 spatial dimensions because that wouldn't really "separate" universes from each other in a causative manner.

It also cannot extend along the same as the time dimension because that direction is already occupied by "Time". And, at that, since "Time" is assumed to be uncountably infinite in a space-time normally, it will encompass the entirety of the 4th dimension by order.

So the hyperspace between causally isolated space-times can really just be the 5th dimension in order.

So the assumption that the hyper space is operating on a separate dimensional axis is what you saying here.

Keep in mind, there is nothing mentioned about the hyper space unable to interact with the 4D dimensional space since it is still accessible to the lower dimensions to say the least.

Hence, why I emphasize on “in theory” there.

Eh? I'm not too knowledgeable when it comes to Level 1 and Level 2, since it's been a really long time since I thoroughly read them, but I'm pretty sure the universes in a Level 1 are not spatio-temporally isolated, and each universe is just a Hubble Volume, with the next universe starting after the Hubble Volume of one of them ends. That essentially is just more then 1 3-A [physical universe] constructs enclosed in an infinite [High 3-A] Space, or at least, this is what I remember from when I thoroughly read it last time.

Yeah, that seems about right actually. However, I should referring to the Quilted Multiverse as it is not from Tegmark in that regard.

I ended up conflating it with some other multiverse theories there

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Also since we are at this.

Hyperspace - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Hyper space originally meant for more than 3 dimensions going by the definition in this case.

Definition of HYPERSPACE

space of more than three dimensions; a fictional space in which extraordinary events happen… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

3D spatial + 1 temporal dimension is already inherently higher dimensional to begin as well

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

So the assumption that the hyper space is operating on a separate dimensional axis is what you saying here.

Yep

Keep in mind, there is nothing mentioned about the hyper space unable to interact with the 4D dimensional space since it is still accessible to the lower dimensions to say the least.

Yet to go to a hyperspace outside the space-time, a character would need to pass the spatio-temporal barrier separating the insignificant 5D hyperspace from the 4D Space-time, so not entirely "inaccessible".
To begin with, calling it a "Higher dimension" is not exactly right if we classify higher-dimensions as more then countably infinite times the lower dimensions. It only works when we talk about additional directions.

So the "inaccessibility" depends on what part of the theory we're taking into context here

Yeah, that seems about right actually. However, I should referring to the Quilted Multiverse as it is not from Tegmark in that regard.
I ended up conflating it with some other multiverse theories there

Oh, alright. Then it may be Low 2-C, although I said "may" because I don't know that theory myself, I only based what I said on Tegmark's.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Also since we are at this.

Hyperspace - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Hyper space originally meant for more than 3 dimensions going by the definition in this case.

Definition of HYPERSPACE

space of more than three dimensions; a fictional space in which extraordinary events happen… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

To be specific, Hyper-space is more than 3 spatial dimensions. The opposite of "Hyper-time" more than 1 temporal dimension.

3D spatial + 1 temporal dimension is already inherently higher dimensional to begin as well

That would be adding a temporal dimension, not a spatial dimension, to be fair. And while we treat both as the same geometrically as an axis/line, a spatial dimension is still distinct from a temporal one in some sense.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Yet to go to a hyperspace outside the space-time, a character would need to pass the spatio-temporal barrier separating the insignificant 5D hyperspace from the 4D Space-time, so not entirely "inaccessible".
To begin with, calling it a "Higher dimension" is not exactly right if we classify higher-dimensions as more then countably infinite times the lower dimensions. It only works when we talk about additional directions.

So the "inaccessibility" depends on what part of the theory we're taking into context here

It isn’t just additional directions. It is moreso the properties of the hyper space to take into account for.

It holds all the universes in one large space while still not exactly that seperate from the rest.
It wouldn’t been outside of space and time in that case.

To be specific, Hyper-space is more than 3 spatial dimensions. The opposite of "Hyper-time" more than 1 temporal dimension.

It doesn’t exclude time though since it involves a higher dimensional space by default.



Even the Wikipedia article for it mentions it originally involved a higher dimensional space to say the least.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Oh right, you use the hyen for hyper-space and hyper-time.

Alright, that is a bit more understanding there

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

It isn’t just additional directions. It is moreso the properties of the hyper space to take into account for.

It holds all the universes in one large space while still not exactly that seperate from the rest.
It wouldn’t been outside of space and time in that case.

Assuming by universes you mean 4D Space-time continuums [since you might be confusing it with the level 1 theory instead], it would be outside space and time because we, to start with, define regular "Space and Time" as the 4th dimensional space-time continuum. A Space outside that continuum is naturally outside 3-dimensional space and 1-dimensional time, or collectively, outside 4D.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Oh right, you use the hyen for hyper-space and hyper-time.

Alright, that is a bit more understanding there

I'm using the wiki definitions of Hyperspace and Hypertime for convenience sake to distinguish between time and space, just in case you didn't get it,