What is truly Unstoppable?

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

If an entity (regardless of their powers, hax, AP, and so on) cannot in any way, be hurt or destroyed by anything short of a Tier 0, and has limitless stamina (or does not depends on it at all in the first palce) what's to stop it from an endless rampage?

Also, does this effect the AP/DC of this being? I mean, if it can't get tired, and use as much energy as it wants, can't it be considered unable to be stopped?

Update: Ignoring the original question, as of July 20th, I have tried to make points on what it requires to make or consider a being unable to be defeated by our definitons of victory and loss. Which assumes all conditions, possibilities and powers. And even if they are negated or rejected, some of the users and I have not stopped going back and forth on what could be done to stop it. regardless of trying to figure out how to make this character feasible (simply by making a list of qualities that are essential for losing a VS Battle)

Basically by making a verse in which a Tier 0 has a favorite student (teacher's pet) and they are gave that being complete inability to lose by our terms of defeat.

And yet we still try to create reasons and justifications for it. It is kind of creative and fun! But eventually I grew tired of it, with the size of the thread more than doubling in size over 24 hours. So maybe a new thread is in order with more rules or clearly thought out reason. Until then Hop is officially stating he is done with this thread until it is closed or others have made a new argument for or against the propposed idea.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It could easily be haxed to defeat. Reality warping, timestop, BFR, and soul manipulation instantly come to mind.

 

[Gemmysaur]

If it has infinite stamina + infinite durability, but has a set AP like say peak human level. It can thrash all it wants, it won't be breaking much.

As for what can stop it, what the real cal howard says, plus durability ignoring attacks like say, Gudodama.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

It could easily be haxed to defeat. Reality warping, timestop, BFR, and soul manipulation instantly come to mind.

Those are negated and useless. You have to pretend its durability = Tier 0.

Litterally meaning it would have to be at least Tier 0, or somehow be gifted by the Tier 0 to have the same amount of power as the Tier 0 itself.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Why the pretend thing? If only its durability and stamina is infinite, then there's no reason for haxx to not affect it.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

@Gemmysaur

That is negated and made irreleavantly weak. That's like saying using Gudodama on a Tier 0 would work. It won't because that being has the same durability and Imortality Types as the Tier0 being that granted it that power.

I do agree with you, and see your point with the AP. Throwing an unstoppable Peak Human fit won't really matter, but if it was somethin substantially powerful, like 4-A or above, then it would be a force to be reckoned with.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Why the pretend thing? If only its durability and stamina is infinite, then there's no reason for haxx to not affect it.

Hax wouldn't effect a Tier 0, so why it it hurt a being with the same durability?

 

[Ryukama]

"what's to stop it from an endless rampage that could destroy everything?"

You did say this guy has a "set AP and speed." So they could never destroy "everything." He'd never have the power to destroy all these places nor the speed to reach those destinations.

I agree with what Cal said as well. Also what do you mean by "infinite durability." If you mean by a 3rd dimensional standard then simply being a low 2-C would be unfathomable overkill. Not only are there the things Cal brought up. But there is also conceptual manipulation. It doesn't matter how durable this hypothetical character is. If they do not have an immunity to getting their concept removed, they will cease to exist.

Plus if this character has a set speed and AP and they fight someone vastly stronger and faster then them, this guy would never be able to defeat that person. They best they can hope for is a stalemate.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

@Ryu

Nice to see you here.

Anyway, let me clarify. It's NOT 3D durability. It's Tier 0 levels (True Inifnity) durability. If the being had Tier 0 durability and stamina, but say it was Tier-7 in AP, would that mean its unstoppable? Not as in, a fight, but rather, no wall or obsticable can end its rampage, not necessarliy win it.

 

[Gemmysaur]

The problem is, is that guy with infinite durability suddenly tier 0? No. He just has infinite durability, not omnipotence as to counter haxx with.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

I have updated and clarified my meaning in the topic above.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I mean, a higher character can literally hold them steady forever if they were immortal and if they had a set AP, the durable character could do nothing about it.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

The problem is, is that guy with infinite durability suddenly tier 0? No. He just has infinite durability, not omnipotence as to counter haxx with.

Didn't say he's Tier 0, Gemmy. Just saying, its AS DURABLE as one. Hope that clears it up. And the Tier 0 legit copy and pasted its durability onto that being. It didn't gift it 3D infinite durability, but pure, beyond Hyperversal, truly infinite Tier 0-grade durability.

 

[Ryukama]

@Soy alright. If this character has Tier 0 levels of durabilty and hax resistance, then yes it would be unkillable by anyone besides maybe another Tier 0 obviously. However with finite AP and finite speed, there are a variety of people it could never beat. Nor it could it go on a purge to end all of existance.

 

[Gemmysaur]

If an entity (regardless of their powers, hax, AP, and so on) cannot in any way, be hurt or destroyed by anything short of a Tier 0, and has limitless stamina (or does not depends on it at all in the first palce) what's to stop it from an endless rampage?

If the being in question is an entity with infinite durability and stamina, regardless of its haxx or whatever power. BFR, conceptual stuff and what not will still trump it.

You just said that it has infinite durability regardless of its powers.

Now, if it had the haxx resistance of an omnipotent, then that's where the omnipotent vs omnipotent draws the line, except, the being in question is pretty much useless in a bout like that.

 

[Ryukama]

@Soy yeah. Gemmy ninja'd me on the response lol

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

@Ryu

I see where you're coming from. That is true and makes sense. They can't be stopped, but they can't destroy everything unless they were higher dimensional.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

@Cal

Hmmm. But if it did that, evetually, the being holding it in place would either grow tired of holding it in, or what's to stop the captured being from using as much energy as needed within its AP boundary (unless it can surpass that, which, honestly, why can't it? It has infinite energy, it could charge up an attack as high as infinite energy allows) to break out?

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

@Gemmy

It does have the hax resistence of an omnipotent, thats part of its durability. It can't be negated or revoked unless by a Tier 0.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Durability is the property which guarantees the ability to survive a certain amount of force. Not to be confused with Endurance. Durability is the ability to withstand damage, while Endurance is a measure of stamina.

True Infinity (Boundlessly above being damaged)

Still done in by BFR, mindfluck, lock-in (think something like Chibaku Tensei which has a self-sustaining core) or something that does not actually do damage.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

BFR, mindfluck, lock-in or something that does not actually do damage.

Ah, but if this is reality warping, or some form of restricting, and this being cannot be effected by it, then does that also count toward it?

I think what you're saying is, that anything with those kinds of powers could put a stop to it, because of the way its worded, its not actaully being damaged?

 

[Gemmysaur]

Yes. Basically, so long as it goes around the being in question being damaged, it can stop it.

Think the Incredible Hulk and his Dwarf Star level base durability. Then think Hatake Kakashi. How does Kakashi even win?

Kamui snip gg.

That's my interpretation anyway.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

But if the Tier 0 can'tt be effected, by this, would the being it blessed also gain this resistance, assuming the durability was also infinte. What I mean is, what would be the point of giving it that level of damage resistance and energy, if it could still be stopped by something like that? So this being would have to be given this too, in order for it to be unstoppable.

 

[KamiYasha]

Actually, No.

If a character has an ability that allows him to ignore durability. It's until certain extent.

Example a Tier 8 that can wipe out someone from existance, isn't going to do jack s*** against a Higher Dimensional Being.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

@Kami

That makes sense.

But this is less about ignoring durability, and about whether or not something with the resistance to hax and infinite stamina and durability of a Tier 0 is truly unstoppable.

 

[KamiYasha]

Technically, it's impossible to a non Tier 0 character have a True Infinity durability. Not even the Highest Tier High 1-A has Infinity Durability or Stamina.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

@Kami

True. But this being is granted by the Tier 0 with the same kind of durability it has, even to the point where the Tier 0 would be the only feasible being to invoke some kind of damage.

It also granted it either unlimited stamina, or to not need energy or stamina in the first place to perform any feats.

 

[KamiYasha]

Oh, more like Regenerationn via Godhood.

Well...IN VERSE if the Tier 0 wants to protect certain charatcer by bumping its durability, then there is no way of harming it.

OUT VERSE...There is no way to determine.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

@Kami

So in verse, it would truly be unstoppable unless it chose to stop itself, or the Tier 0 revokes what it gave it. Or PIS, basically.

 

[KamiYasha]

Pretty much.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Pretty much.

That's what I was wondering. Thank you.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

Any being who is capable of withstanding the damage that the invulnerable guy can dish out can just pick them up and drop them into a black hole, or open a portal to a pocket dimensions and push them into it, or toss them into some empty region of space and give them a push in the direction of the edge of the universe, or put him inside some magical barrier that absorbs energy that is used against it or generated inside of it and is more durable the invulnerable guy can break through, or someone who has time manipulation can stop the time in the area around him instead of time stopping him directly, or the battle could be moved into a pocket dimensions where the concept of time doesn't exist thus preventing him from acting without immeasurable/infinite speed, or someone could go back to the time before the guy was given this durability and kill him as a child since acasuality wasn't specified, etc


This guy's inability to take damage or be haxed won't be enough to stop people from ending his rampage unless he has a bunch of extra powers specifically designed to prevent the indirect approach.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

@A Sword Dancer
I think you strongly misunderstand the question.

The being is also in possession of all hax and logical factors that would otherwise bypass how to defeat an invincible character. So allow me to explain this to you in a more simple way, since my original description is kind of convoluted.

If a Tier 0 copy and pasted their own hax/reality-warping resistance, stamina (or lack of need for stamina) and durability, would they be truly unstoppable? This inlcudes creating wall, warping, any kind of manipulation.

Even if they faced a higher dimensional being, they could be treated as a Tier 0 in all regards excecpt AP, Strength, Speed and Intelligence. If they are UNTOUCHABLE and LIMITLESSLY POWERED by definitio, should they be considered unstoppable by anything other than the Tier 0?

Even Kami (look above your comment) thinks that, just like explained in this case, which the question is referring to, if the Tier 0 wants that kind of protection on that being, than no matter what powers or Tier another being is, in that verse, that being is purely unstoppable, since only one entity has ANY ability to do anything to it.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Again, barriers, walls, teleportation are NEGATED. If it wouldn't work on a Tier 0, it doesn't work on that being, that's what this question is gettting to.

This is basically "Tier 0.5" by the Tier 0's desire.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

Again, barriers, walls, teleportation are NEGATED. If it wouldn't work on a Tier 0, it doesn't work on that being, that's what this question is gettting to.
This is basically "Tier 0.5" by the Tier 0's desire.

No it's not lol. Very basic things can contain your proposed being. Your character has finite attack power and speed, so anyone strong enough to tank his damage output can pick him up and move him.

You aren't going to argue against that I hope? Because that's not hax and it's not damaging him. It's like an adult picking up an unruly child and carrying him off somewhere. The child may be invulnerable to damage (by virtue of not actually wanting to hurt the child), and the parent isn't using any magical powers, and the child just doesn't have the power to really hurt the adult in any meaningful way that would stop them from getting carried around.

All the parent has to do then is drop the child off somewhere for a time out. A room would hold a child, some random empty spot in space far from any objects the being could use for leverage would work here.

You haven't given your being any powers like teleportation or space flight or anything of that nature, so what's he gonna do? He's just going to drift around in space not being a threat to anyone. Eventually he might wind back up on a planet or something and maybe make his way back to civilization, but then he can just have the same thing done to him again.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Well that does work, no arguement there, but in an actual fight, it wouldn't be allowed to do any thing of that sort.

Picking him up would be banned by the Tier 0. Touch him, and well, you un-touch him. BFR, and instead, the battlefield stays, because that would affect the being that is being protected.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

I am not arguing basic fight mechanics or how things should work, but:

In a set of givens, and restrictions, how is one being supposed to lose if all conditions for potential to lose are taken away?

 

[Aimenaltair]

You're basically describing an omnilock bro, he can't be affected by anything but he ain't unstoppable since it depends on AP, but he would be apain in the ass to someone with a higher Dur than an omnilock's AP since the former can hurt the latter and the latter can't hurt the former so...inconclussive.

 

[Blahblah9755]

I agree with sword dancer, if this hypothetical being is still finite, but has true omni dura/hax resistance/stamina, all you'd have to do is put him in a regenerating cage with more durability than his AP. He'd be completely unable to break it, and couldn't harm it fast enough for damage to accumulate before it regenerated, he could keep attacking it till the end of existence, but he couldn't get out.

Edit: since picking him up got banned while I was writing, some genius with super high speed could build the cage around him.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

Well that does work, no arguement there, but in an actual fight, it wouldn't be allowed to do any thing of that sort.
Picking him up would be banned by the Tier 0. Touch him, and well, you un-touch him. BFR, and instead, the battlefield stays, because that would affect the being that is being protected.

You keep adding additional restrictions. Durability does not protect from being picked up in any way. I could pick up the most durable material in the universe in real life if it was there in front of me and didn't weigh too much for me to lift. Even if there was nothing that I or anyone else in the universe could do to harm or alter the material in any way, we could still lift it and move it around.

Hax resistance only protects you from direct hax. If I can manpulate earth and you are standing on the earth with hax resistance, I can still move the earth underneath your feat and you will get pulled along with it.

If reality is warped such that there is now a black hole 1 foot to the left of you, your hax resistance won't stop that from happening and it won't unmake the black hole which has become a normal part of the physical universe. It will still suck you in and trap you forever.

If a 2-a being destroys the time and space of the universe you are in and then leaves to copy-pasta his universe over somewhere else, you can't stop that from happening and the net effect is that the universe will continue on as if you never existed and you will be trapped in another universe that has no matter for you to interact with and without infinite speed you will be unable to act in the absence of a time line.


If you try to say 'the tier 0 being will interfere and prevent those things from happening' then the existance of the non tier 0 being becomes irrelevant and you are essentially just saying 'nothing can stop a tier 0 being except anothet tier 0 being' which makes the entire discussion pointless.