What happened to Nasuverse?

[Boy.Line]

There were already several complaints about the Tier being ridiculously complementary to the characters in Nasuverse, but it seems to have gotten even worse now, what happened to get to this point?

We arrive at something that not even the characters' own Tier makes sense with the narrative, and that is noticeable in several of them like here: We see beings like ORT, Arcueid, Gilgamesh and others like 2-A, but ishtar is in 6-B?? where's the point in that?

Archer (Ishtar)

Archer is an Archer-Class Servant able to be summoned by the Ritsuka Fujimaru. She first appeared in the seventh singularity, the Absolute Demonic Front, Babylonia. Her true name is Ishtar, the Mistress of Heaven and the Goddess of beauty, lust, discord, war, destruction, harvest, love...

vsbattles.fandom.com

There is a direct mention of her being invoked as a fraction in human body because she is from a higher dimension, not only does she have several other characters Not to mention the R>F applications, which yes, are good arguments within nasuverse and are valid, but as this is for questions, I just wanted to ask the reason for this atrocity. In addition, of course, the reason for the denial of Tier 0 regarding the root that has all the requirements for this. Depending on the reason, I may make another one refuting the statements that were essential for this senseless demotion.

 

[Huesito88]

What's happening is that Breaker hasn't gotten around to updating all the stats from the recently accepted crts and Breaker is going to do other crts

 

[Boy.Line]

What's happening is that Breaker hasn't gotten around to updating all the stats from the recently accepted crts and Breaker is going to do other crts

The right thing to do would be to wait for a general conclusion, not to put something meaningless like that. There are people who literally believe this.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

insane how someone who shoots jupiter as her arrow is only 6-C lmao

 

[Boy.Line]

insane how someone who shoots jupiter as her arrow is only 6-C lmao

It's going from ridiculous to pathetic, it just shows the kind of person who is putting this in front of them. Just the characters being in 2-A would already be something far from normal, now 6-A is something horrendous.

 

[Wankbreaker]

It's going from ridiculous to pathetic, it just shows the kind of person who is putting this in front of them. Just the characters being in 2-A would already be something far from normal, now 6-A is something horrendous.

5-A*

Nasu, the same person who thinks star destruction is inflated and beyond the majority of the setting, lol.

- Space Phantasmoon V
Enraged by her rival from Universe spacetime, she declared, “Ugh, fine! I'll get a Space form too!”

Phantasm Moon, having discarded her own limitations, has adapted to the space era. The Mysterious Executor C.I.E.L. is from the Universe, but Space Phantasmoon is not. She independently acquired the absurdity of Universe spacetime and claimed the title Space for herself. Every servant from the Universe has inflated power levels on a cosmic scale, but that's only permitted due to its nature. However, even Ciel was astonished by the Princess, who achieved a similar level of power within the confines of proper world laws.


dkjhhvzzzzzzz

 

[Boy.Line]

5-A*

Nasu, the same person who thinks star destruction is inflated and beyond the majority of the setting, lol.

- Space Phantasmoon V
Enraged by her rival from Universe spacetime, she declared, “Ugh, fine! I'll get a Space form too!”

Phantasm Moon, having discarded her own limitations, has adapted to the space era. The Mysterious Executor C.I.E.L. is from the Universe, but Space Phantasmoon is not. She independently acquired the absurdity of Universe spacetime and claimed the title Space for herself. Every servant from the Universe has inflated power levels on a cosmic scale, but that's only permitted due to its nature. However, even Ciel was astonished by the Princess, who achieved a similar level of power within the confines of proper world laws.


dkjhhvzzzzzzz

Cosmic scale = Universal scale?
I think you’re forgetting that this term refers to something related to space, not to scale classification. It applies to places with celestial bodies — worlds or dimensions.

Since the first Singularities, there have been beings who threatened to destroy them, with Da Vinci later referring to them as universes. So no, you're talking nonsense as always. Moreover, the same scale granted to Servants is embedded into their attacks, even with an ether body, as they are still higher-dimensional entities manifested through avatars (modern magical power bodies).

 

[Wankbreaker]

Cosmic scale = Universal scale?
I think you’re forgetting that this term refers to something related to space, not to scale classification. It applies to places with celestial bodies — worlds or dimensions.

It’s talking about servant verse beings destroying planets and stars.

Nasu explicitly points out the power level, and not the destructive feats.

Since the first Singularities, there have been beings who threatened to destroy them, with Da Vinci later referring to them as universes. So no, you're talking nonsense as always.

(What are you even talking about)

Moreover, the same scale granted to Servants is embedded into their attacks, even with an ether body, as they are still higher-dimensional entities manifested through avatars (modern magical power bodies).

BB literally calls them 3rd dimensional. What are you even talking about.

 

[BeTheWay1rst]

When are you going to nuke it ?

Immeasurable (Her skills transcend time, space and existence, leading her to a realm of nothingness with no time or space, devoid of thought and feeling, beyond the rift of reality and dreams. In this realm, which is explicitly not a pruned or parallel world, every moment her sword clashes with Kojirou's, infinite possibilities would play out and infinity and zero clash endlessly. Musashi's principle of Zero is such that not even the Buddha and the Gods, higher dimensional beings who transcend space-time and view it all as a book, could escape it)

 

[Huesito88]

When are you going to nuke it ?

Immeasurable (Her skills transcend time, space and existence, leading her to a realm of nothingness with no time or space, devoid of thought and feeling, beyond the rift of reality and dreams. In this realm, which is explicitly not a pruned or parallel world, every moment her sword clashes with Kojirou's, infinite possibilities would play out and infinity and zero clash endlessly. Musashi's principle of Zero is such that not even the Buddha and the Gods, higher dimensional beings who transcend space-time and view it all as a book, could escape it)

When Breaker feels like updating the stats

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

We arrive at something that not even the characters' own Tier makes sense with the narrative, and that is noticeable in several of them like here: We see beings like ORT, Arcueid, Gilgamesh and others like 2-A, but ishtar is in 6-B?? where's the point in that?

5-A*

Alright, you have won me over, put Gilgamesh and the rest in 5A too.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

5-A???
Time for some Granblue match up now that Hax has also been reworked

 

[Huesito88]

Alright, you have won me over, put Gilgamesh and the rest in 5A too.

Hey now atleast we can use Asura

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Hey now atleast we can use Asura

Also, current Tensura

Now that I actually think about it, while I said it as a joke, it would actually be a valid matchup unless I am missing something...

 

[AlexSamDen]

Now that I actually think about it, while I said it as a joke, it would actually be a valid matchup unless I am missing something...

Did uou check NPI on the trio of AE?

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Did uou check NPI on the trio of AE?

I said it was a "valid matchup", not an actual fair one.

 

[AlexSamDen]

I said it was a "valid matchup", not an actual fair one.

Seems fair

 

[Boy.Line]

Ele fala sobre seres servos destruindo planetas e estrelas.

Nasu aponta explicitamente o nível de poder, e não os feitos destrutivos.

humans have the ability to affect stars with magic, the same power that does not affect even the same servants significantly.

BB literally calls them 3rd dimensional. What are you even talking about.

This never happened, and even if it had, Rin explicitly explains that it is mere perception, there is no 3D space in Nasu precisely because there are no limits of books that you see.

 

[Tzimtzumim]

humans have the ability to affect stars with magic, the same power that does not affect even the same servants significantly.

what "humans" are we talking about here? Aoko? Because regular magecraft (and i am hoping you mean Magecraft, considering Magic is shown to have far more far-ranging and superior abilities than most Servants, no Servant is fighting the Crimson Moon) does no such thing. I sincerely hope you're not talking about the passages that go "we can do witch things like flying on brooms and creating stars" and taking it to mean literal stars.

This never happened, and even if it had, Rin explicitly explains that it is mere perception, there is no 3D space in Nasu precisely because there are no limits of books that you see.

It doesn't directly say "servants lmao", but BB-Hotep outright calls the scale of humanity, alongside the protagonist and their servants (after battling them, btw, and with her higher-dimensional observation over mankind, granting her a superior outlook entirely), 3-dimensional.
Also, there is very much 3 dimensional space in TM. They literally use spatial axes to refer to space (and if there was no such thing as "3 dimensional space", what on earth are the characters moving in?). I can't read the second part of that sentence, I assume you're just referring to Extra Rin's statements and adding your own flair to it, but it is wholly irrelevant to this, at all.
The only "parts" of servants (as a general classification) that are ever called "higher dimensional" are in the Throne of Heroes, which is entirely irrelevant to every instance we see in the verse, barring the characters who manipulate the Throne itself.

 

[Boy.Line]

De que "humanos" estamos falando aqui? Aoko? Porque a Magia comum (e espero que você esteja se referindo à Magia, considerando que a Magia demonstra ter habilidades muito mais abrangentes e superiores do que a maioria dos Servos, nenhum Servo está lutando contra a Lua Carmesim) não faz nada disso. Espero sinceramente que você não esteja falando das passagens que dizem "podemos fazer coisas de bruxas como voar em vassouras e criar estrelas" e interpretando isso como estrelas literais.

Não diz diretamente "servos kkkk", mas BB-Hotep chama diretamente a escala da humanidade, juntamente com a protagonista e seus servos (depois de lutar contra eles, a propósito, e com sua observação dimensional superior sobre a humanidade, concedendo a ela uma perspectiva inteiramente superior), de tridimensional.
Além disso, há muito espaço tridimensional em TM. Eles literalmente usam eixos espaciais para se referir ao espaço (e se não existisse "espaço tridimensional", em que diabos os personagens estariam se movendo?). Não consigo ler a segunda parte da frase. Presumo que você esteja apenas se referindo às declarações de Extra Rin e adicionando seu próprio toque a elas, mas isso é totalmente irrelevante para o caso.
As únicas "partes" de servos (como uma classificação geral) que são chamadas de "dimensões superiores" estão no Trono dos Heróis, o que é totalmente irrelevante para cada instância que vemos no verso, exceto os personagens que manipulam o próprio Trono.

FI'm talking about magecraft users, nothing yet about true Magic, and yes, she says "create something similar/equivalent", there's no logic to invalidate it because "I interpreted it as a literal hand". And again she said nonsense about the servants, everything is of a lower dimension even their fragments because everything is made of spiritrons. And it is not three-dimensional space, it is a superior one to that which Rin explains is visually 3D, not literally.

 

[Hypertornado099]

insane how someone who shoots jupiter as her arrow is only 6-C lmao

That's a conceptual planet thats not the actual size of Jupiter

 

[Robo432343]

That's a conceptual planet thats not the actual size of Jupiter

thats not the reason why 5-A is wrong

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

That's a conceptual planet thats not the actual size of Jupiter

Disgaea Victim then

 

[Hypertornado099]

thats not the reason why 5-A is wrong

What's the reason then?

 

[Tzimtzumim]

FI'm talking about magecraft users, nothing yet about true Magic, and yes, she says "create something similar/equivalent", there's no logic to invalidate it because "I interpreted it as a literal hand".

The statement is a clear reference to star-shaped objects, given the context of the scene being introductory to the reader about what mages are in the story, and using commonly associated magical themes (literally saying "fly on a broom" and "wave a wand to make stars appear"), not talking about literal stars. You'd run into absurd contradictions if you thought regular mages were generating actual stars - among which, the complete lack of the ability to do so, stars (and lower objects, such as planets, and the "conceptual" variants of such) being completely out of most mages' forte, and the fact that regular mages have giant magical energy output limitations. Structures the size of buildings or a theme park are considered crazy to regular human mages, and literal, outright measurements that are far below what a star represents. Plenty more stuff to list here in regards to contradictions, but it'd get tiring.

And again she said nonsense about the servants, everything is of a lower dimension even their fragments because everything is made of spiritrons.

not sure what this is supposed to prove. nor how this is supposed to go "the character with higher-dimensional comprehension is just lying for some reason".

And it is not three-dimensional space, it is a superior one to that which Rin explains is visually 3D, not literally.

Rin literally calls our world 3 dimensional, and then goes on to talk about how from a higher perspective it appears like a scroll that can be meddled with. We have direct mentions of 3 axes of space within FGO. There is no case of "this is just metaphorically 3D, it's actually some higher space", the base reality of the verse is literally 3D. I'd like to see your evidence saying "this is a visually 3D reality, but not a literal 3D reality; dimensionality does not exist", because that is complete nonsense. The base reality of the verse is referred to as 3D numerous amounts of times.