What can beat "determination"

[Drac32Drac]

I never said anything about it being impossible. I am merely suggesting that a determination user would need to be prepared to resist emotional tampering. And if they weren't, then the determination would be rendered weaker, or even nonexistant.

 

[Salavtore]

Well in this case it beats it.

 

[Salavtore]

Could a knife to the head beat it?

 

[Drac32Drac]

Well, a letter from Undyne can.

• (The letter is too powerful to throw away) *

• (It gets the better of you) *

 

[MirthfulDoggedness]

Well, a letter from Undyne can.

• (The letter is too powerful to throw away) *

• (It gets the better of you) *

I mean, this IS the chick who attacks FASTER than her Undying form if you keep dodging all of her attacks without moving forward with the battle.

 

[XXRiosrockXx]

Anything that can erase concepts and ideas from existence and emotion manipulation.

 

[Andykhang]

Uh, asking that is like asking how can you beat magic, or gravity, because apparently in that verse, Determination is one of the fundamental force of that universe (just like Flash-verse have Speed Force), or so it seem (such great amount of power would theoratically create a world run purely on GAR, like Gurann Lagant. That world would be impossible to hide from the blatant effect it would show on the universe. Or even more simpler, the human society (of that world) would have discover it a long time ago and have exploited it to death( or eternity, as it effect would said). But that just pure speculation on my part)

Specifically though, you need to specified what kind of "beat" you want. If it just beating it out of the opponent, you could just isolate them from the rule of that force, like putting them in another dimension or have them reject it itself, or you could have an illusion to have beat it by overpowering it with some other force, making it inconsequential. (Just like pure determination alone couldn't beat gravity in our world). If you want to beat the effect of it, either doing like the above to yourself, or become one with it . IF you want to defeat the thing itself in physical form, like said you want to destroy the law of a country, you only need to beat down the system that support it, like a goverment, a mystical crystal that magic is based on, or part of the universe, or again, creating a special zone that's not allowing it to work.AND IF you want to defeat it as a concept, then that is a job only high-lever reality warper can do.

 

[Ichwillpopcorn]

Just kill the determination wearer so many times that their attention span doesn´t keep up and he becomes frustrated. That´s what Sans did.

 

[Squid_peanut]

Just kill the determination wearer so many times that their attention span doesn´t keep up and he becomes frustrated. That´s what Sans did.

problem is is that a determination user would be, well, determined.

 

[Ichwillpopcorn]

problem is is that a determination user would be, well, determined.

It worked with the 6 humans before Frisk. (Toriel implied that they have determination too)

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

It worked with the 6 humans before Frisk. (Toriel implied that they have determination too)

All humans presumably have Determination. They produce it naturally, and it's the whole reason their SOULs stick around after death. However, this doesn't mean any random individual human is even close to as Determined as Frisk.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

All humans presumably have Determination. They produce it naturally, and it's the whole reason their SOULs stick around after death. However, this doesn't mean any random individual human is even close to as Determined as Frisk.

So it's like TTGL where everyone has Spiral Power in them but not anybody can just make galaxy-sized mechs and throw Big-Bangs at each other, right?

 

[Dekoshu]

One would have to be entirely higher-dimensional not just in power, but in being as well? As in, biologically higher-dimensional.

 

[Ichwillpopcorn]

Couldn´t Alphys with the DT-extraction engine absorb DT? Considering that DT is a physical substance, couldn´t a Matter Manipulator destroy or remove it?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Couldn´t Alphys with the DT-extraction engine absorb DT? Considering that DT is a physical substance, couldn´t a Matter Manipulator destroy or remove it?

Determination isn't a physical substance, and it's certainly not matter. Being able to extract Determination from something using the extraction engine would require a a severely weakened target, a willing participant, or someone with already low enough Determination, anyway. It's not really a viable way to "beat" Determination.

 

[Ichwillpopcorn]

Determination isn't a physical substance, and it's certainly not matter. Being able to extract Determination from something using the extraction engine would require a a severely weakened target, a willing participant, or someone with already low enough Determination, anyway. It's not really a viable way to "beat" Determination.

Then how could Alphys inject it into monsters and flowers? And when are the requirements ever stated for absorbing determination?

Edit: Since Alphys said that DT is the "will to keep living" you could just torture Frisk or Flowey.

 

[Blahblah9755]

Well Alphys seems to have extracted the determination from the dead husk of Omega Flowey found in her lab (which implies that UT is one of those multi-timeline time loops), and was unable to stop Chara and Flowey by DT sucking them, so it's not a viable way of winning, and this thread isn't looking for an answer like "be a super-genius scientist from a world with determination" in the first place, that's way too specific only being close to a possibility for 1, maybe 2 if we count Gasper, characters, it's just looking for a general way that someone in the same tier can overcome the combination of "save" "load" "reset" and mid-godly regen that comes from being at max determination.

 

[Ichwillpopcorn]

Wait... Wat? I don´t remember this part in the game, she clearly wrote that she extracted them from the souls. If it was a timeline loop, the souls would one day run out of DT and break. And Alphys never tried DT-sucking Frisk because not only did she not know about the whole saving-stuff, she also is a huge coward.

 

[Dekoshu]

Alphys is quite timid to be honest, that's for sure.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Then how could Alphys inject it into monsters and flowers? And when are the requirements ever stated for absorbing determination?

Edit: Since Alphys said that DT is the "will to keep living" you could just torture Frisk or Flowey.

Because monster science is equally magic as much as science. This is confirmed multiple times. The requirements for Determination are made pretty clear. Monsters (except Undyne in the genocide route) can't use it because their bodies cannot handle it and they melt into Amalgamates. Normally, only humans can make and use it. Flowey was a test on injecting Determination into something with no SOUL, but because of Asriel's lingering memories and essence in the flower, that went all kinds of wrong.

Yeah, really doubt that's gonna work, what with resets and everything. Not to mention the fact that Flowey already tried this and it didn't really break Frisk's will because of how strong it is.