Weird things in Sonic's profile.

[Rodri_"Dante"]

This is a contradictory statment that makes absolutely no sense, you say it's contradicted by the first cutscene yet you say in the same setence you say the first cutscene also has them enter through a portal,

Is contradicted by the fact they are willingly going to Magiaryworld while the very first cutscene shows they are confused by being there.

I don't see how Illumina sending them to different dream worlds through a portal proves your point, it just seems like you are randomly saying stuff that isn't connected with the assumption you are arguing the obvious when you clearly aren't

I'm saying that the portal that they come from in the first cutscene and the ones used to go from dream to dream are the exact same. How I am supposed to know that they went from Earth to Maginaryworld in the first cutscene as opposed to already being asleep and being transported to a different location inside Maginaryworld?

None of the things you listed have weird implications, you are making them have weird implications when via context it's a normal fictional trope after long adventures

...leaving unconscious people in random locations is a trope? Huh.

I don't see how ooc panels from Homestuck debunk the fact that Sonic had an item from Maginary World in the real world even though according to you he never went there

Is a showcase of the trope of "Character wakes up with an item they were holding in their dreams". The other example I considered using was A Nightmare on Elm Street, but it didn't feel it was a good example.

You have to prove that those beings came from this dream world and were created by it instead of being the real ones brought there, yes, basic burden of proof, your point is not as obvious or self evident as you fooled yourself into thinking it is

Proof that the characters were physically transported to Maginaryworld:
*The intro of the game, which is contradicted by the first cutscene of the game and about as valid as your average videogame/anime intro animation.
*The first cutscene of the game, which doesn't show us from where the characters are coming from.
*Sonic holding a precioustone by the end of the game, which is an actual fictional trope.
*Lumina showing up on Earth... when it doesn't make sense she exists individually by this point of the story to begin with.

Proof that the characters aren't physically in Maginaryworld:
*Knuckles first assumption being that everyone is dreaming, when he would have needed to willingly go trough a framework or a portal to arrive there. Not really definitive, but then...
*Everyone waking up in random locations, with Amy and Tails clearly being in the middle of something and Tails even having oil stains that weren't there during gameplay. The worst contradiction this has is the fact that no one tried to wake up Amy despite falling asleep in a public place, but she would also have attracted a crowd if she suddenly appeared there so it's a contradiction either way.

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

(I guess with translation cause would be not much a good idea to put just stuff in Japanese)

The manual I linked was translated.

 

[Greenshifter]

I did say to just clarify, people rarely listen to the green guy...

 

[Theuser789]

Is contradicted by the fact they are willingly going to Magiaryworld while the very first cutscene shows they are confused by being there.

That is a somewhat fair point, however they being confused or not doesn't debunk anything major, since the main idea is still there

I'm saying that the portal that they come from in the first cutscene and the ones used to go from dream to dream are the exact same. How I am supposed to know that they went from Earth to Maginaryworld in the first cutscene as opposed to already being asleep and being transported to a different location inside Maginaryworld?

Except you are already making an assumption they were in Maginary World beforehand, and then simply went there again with no proof, plus I don't see why Lumina would use a different portal to put them in the real world, plus what you are saying is non sensical, if they were already in Maginary World why are they confused as if they just got there in the actual cutscenes

Is a showcase of the trope of "Character wakes up with an item they were holding in their dreams". The other example I considered using was A Nightmare on Elm Street, but it didn't feel it was a good example.

And most of the times this trope is used to show the adventure actualy happened with an air of mystery, even still a random trope being used in another verse doesn't mean it's used in the same way in Sonic, he having the stone clearly proves his real self was there

Proof that the characters aren't physically in Maginaryworld:
*Knuckles first assumption being that everyone is dreaming, when he would have needed to willingly go trough a framework or a portal to arrive there. Not really definitive, but then...
*Everyone waking up in random locations, with Amy and Tails clearly being in the middle of something and Tails even having oil stains that weren't there during gameplay. The worst contradiction this has is the fact that no one tried to wake up Amy despite falling asleep in a public place, but she would also have attracted a crowd if she suddenly appeared there so it's a contradiction either way.

This isn't solid evidence, plus trying to mock the evidence contrary to yours doesn't work when you are the one who has to prove it, but even then we provided double the amount of evidence than you have even though the burden is

"Proof" that they aren't real

Is Knuckles of all characters thinking he is dreaming, which is immediately dismissed as impossible by Tails, this is then dropped and not mentioned, good thing you concede this isn't a good amount of proof

The only other one is the characters waking up, and then some dumb stuff like Tails having oil but not having it in gameplay even though this would be after the adventure so this makes no sense, and the other is people not waking Amy up even though this can happen in real life, and expecting a crowd to show up when Sonic falling from the sky attracts nobody in Sonic Adventure

Now to debunk your misconceptions on the evidence even though you should be the only one providing it

*The intro of the game, which is contradicted by the first cutscene of the game and about as valid as your average videogame/anime intro animation.

Intros usualy represent what the game is about, they could easily have showed the characters sleeping and then being in the dream world, which they didn't, this is the weakest evidence but again you are the one who should be showing proof

*The first cutscene of the game, which doesn't show us from where the characters are coming from.

They clearly aren't coming from Maginary World, as seem by their reactions

*Sonic holding a precioustone by the end of the game, which is an actual fictional trope.

Saying it's a trope is not an argument, different series use it differently, you need to prove why Sonic had it even though he never went there, the intent of the scene is obvious

*Lumina showing up on Earth... when it doesn't make sense she exists individually by this point of the story to begin with.

I don't understand this part, no cutscene except the intro as her on Earth

 

[Theuser789]

All in all you only provided two instances of actual proof, while even though we aren't obligated to since you are the one who needs to debunk Sonic being the real one, we showed more evidence according to yourself, and your evidence was mostly just interpretations of vague scenes and nothing clear, which still means Sonic should keep his Shuffle feats

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

Just found out that Sonic and co. can drown in this game and they just lose a turn. None of them have resurrection by this point, right?

 

[Theuser789]

This seems like gameplay mechanics, just like the turn system itself, so if you are going to use it to prove Sonic is not real in the game don't bother, plus at worst it could be a ressurection feat

 

[Theuser789]

For real, don't use this as actual proof, in Team Sonic Racing Sonic can come back immediately after falling of the track even if it's an abyss, yet we don't use that to argue it's a fake Sonic

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

It’s stated Eggman followed Sonic and co. to Maginaryworld, proving the characters are physically present there instead of just being fake dream world versions.

 

[Theuser789]

This official website also states they came from the real world into Maginary World

https://web.archive.org/web/20010218130942fw_/http://sonic-sh.dricas.ne.jp/maginari/story.html

This seems like more than enough proof this wasn't just a dream

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

That sounds footnote worthy.

 

[Theuser789]

I don't think it's needed because before you nobody argued this, but I wouldn't mind

 

[ElixirBlue]

I agree on the footnote worthiness part. We should be a bit more detailed with the profiles so we don't come together again on repeat attempted downgrades.

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

Updated the sandbox.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Looks fine to me

 

[Theuser789]

About the chronicles equipment stuff, I do feel it's already obvious Sonic can't wear two pair of shoes at the same time, but it can be added to the page, however I do think there are other video game profiles that should do that as well

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

I mean, I did it for Mega Man's profile and his M&B optional equipment.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

I agree with everything. I've even been meaning to downgrade Darkspine Sonic's speed for a while now.

 

[ShakeResounding]

@Peptocoptr27 Bro, almost everything in the blog was debunked. Just scroll through the thread.

Only thing that's valid is Darkspine's speed and the Optional Equipment.

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

I edited the sandbox since then, I remember removing all the debunked things.

 

[Theuser789]

The Sonic CD stuff is already done

 

[Peptocoptr27]

@Peptocoptr27 Bro, almost everything in the blog was debunked. Just scroll through the thread.

Only thing that's valid is Darkspine's speed and the Optional Equipment.

Oh. Fine by me. Lol