Weird things in Sonic's profile.

[Rodri_"Dante"]

Kind of a mini-CRT. I was going to wait until the Immeasurable speed thread was concluded, but it kinda died and this is pretty straightforward and short.

Everything I have a problem with is written here.

I haven't checked other profiles to see if they have the same problems, and I'm not in the mood for an extensive revision. I kindly ask to conclude this first and leave that for future threads.

 

[Garchomp777]

Moving in erased time should be resistance to time stop, cynthia should get it too

 

[Theuser789]

About time stop resistance your first point doesn't amount to much because the jap scan says the same as the english one (The mysterious Time Stones are said to be able to turn a desert into a jungle, and a polluted lake into a beautiful lake by crossing through time.), second point misses the point in the upgrade thread, Tails and Eggman can talk to the others after they activated the time switch

 

[Theuser789]

Also resistance negation comes from Metal using Chaos Control to stop Super Sonic, who has it via reasons 2 and 3

 

[Cropfist]

I don't think its logically possible for that door to explode via overload, with the way he did it. I think Sonic can hang upside-down the loop in SONIC THE HEDGEHOG (2006). The dreams in Shuffle are accepted as real realms.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Resistance to Death Manipulation: It comes from being able to interact with Void without any issue in Sonic Shuffle, who killed off the life within the Nature Zone with his precence alone. The thing is, the whole game happens in a dream. As in, he's safely sleeping in a forest during the whole game. How do we even know he can "die" in the first place, or that the abilities from said game could be used by him while awake?

Resistance to Extreme Heat: Resisting the heat of Lava Reef Zone is fine, resiting the heat of a star should be removed because it also happens in Sonic Shuffle.

These arguments miss the entire point of Maginaryworld being a realm where dreams become real, physical places (or “dreams become reality” in short). It isn’t just a substance-less dream so Resistance to Heat & Death Manipulation should stay.

Agree with Hacking and Surface Scaling being removed, neutral on the Time Stop stuff for now.

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

About time stop resistance your first point doesn't amount to much because the jap scan says the same as the english one (The mysterious Time Stones are said to be able to turn a desert into a jungle, and a polluted lake into a beautiful lake by crossing through time.)

"Time Stones affect the landscape by traveling through time" = "Sonic resist time stop"

...I don't follow.

, second point misses the point in the upgrade thread, Tails and Eggman can talk to the others after they activated the time switch

Then THAT should be in the profile, not "Resist Time Stop because he can move after stopping time". Beisdes, what's the range of the Time Switch? Were both Eggman and Tails within said range while talking?

Also resistance negation comes from Metal using Chaos Control to stop Super Sonic, who has it via reasons 2 and 3

I've said it, I'm not aware of the current timeless void standards. Is there a page or something?

These arguments miss the entire point of Maginaryworld being a realm where dreams become real, physical places (or “dreams become reality” in short). It isn’t just a substance-less dream so Resistance to Heat & Death Manipulation should stay.

I can accept that the characters that appear in Sonic Shuffle are real, tangible beings that exist. I still don't get why the feats performed by these dreamed up characters apply to the actual characters.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I can accept that the characters that appear in Sonic Shuffle are real, tangible beings that exist. I still don't get why the feats performed by these dreamed up characters apply to the actual characters.

Because Maginaryworld is a real, tangible universe and not just a dream.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

The characters we see in Shuffle are summoned there via dimensional portal. They’re not just collectively having the same dream.

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

Well, intro aside they do arrive through a portal, but they are also waking up by the end of the game, so I'm not sure of how to interpret it.

 

[Theuser789]

"Time Stones affect the landscape by traveling through time" = "Sonic resist time stop"

...I don't follow.

You really should read the original thread before making debunk threads, especially since this was a very recent one, Sonic has resistance to time stop because the landscape of Little Planet doesn't follow linear time, the jap manual says the same so he keeps that justification

Then THAT should be in the profile, not "Resist Time Stop because he can move after stopping time". Beisdes, what's the range of the Time Switch? Were both Eggman and Tails within said range while talking?

At least the ARK, which both are in

I've said it, I'm not aware of the current timeless void standards. Is there a page or something?

Don't know, but this was accepted by staff recently, literally this month

 

[Theuser789]

Maverick is right, Shuffle does indeed show real dreams, this is already accepted

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

All of the stuff you mentioned was already discussed and accepted in the original thread they got added in the first place.

I suggest you go and read it first before making more argument here

 

[Theuser789]

Anyways, I agree with the removal of hacking and surface scaling

Disagree with the rest, all you would need is to change the justification to include the japonese version which says the same relevant part as the english, as well as minor stuff. Also disagree with removing shit from Shuffle because "lol dream", that misses the entire point of the game and dreams being reality

 

[Rikimarox2]

Sonic has resistance to time stop because the landscape of Little Planet doesn't follow linear time, the jap manual says the same so he keeps that justification

Don't know shit here, but do we give Time Stop resistances for stuff like these? I don't recall that being a thing. Are there any other profiles like this?

 

[Theuser789]

Again, just read the last thread made this month, people are acting as if this wasn't approved beforehand recently

 

[Theuser789]

Here's the thread btw, so that people can actualy question things in it instead of just doubting

https://vsbattles.com/threads/game-sonic-crt-missing-powers-and-abilities.111550/

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

You really should read the original thread before making debunk threads, especially since this was a very recent one, Sonic has resistance to time stop because the landscape of Little Planet doesn't follow linear time, the jap manual says the same so he keeps that justification

This would imply that the chain that connects Little Planet to Earth resist Time Stop, and I still don't see the relation between time travel and time stop, besides being time-related. And the original thread didn't help.

Maverick is right, Shuffle does indeed show real dreams, this is already accepted

Goddamit! I'm not arguing whether or not the Maginariworld is real, I'm asking why the abilities they showcase there apply to the characters. They might enter through a portal at the beginning of the game, but they are clearly waking up by the end of it.

All of the stuff you mentioned was already discussed and accepted in the original thread they got added in the first place.

I suggest you go and read it first before making more argument here

Yeah, tell that to everyone that will read the profiles in the future with no context.

 

[Oleggator]

Actually isn't sonic was able to run up the walls in sonic 3 and sonic lost world, maybe it's more counts as acrobatics but still.

 

[Theuser789]

This would imply that the chain that connects Little Planet to Earth resist Time Stop, and I still don't see the relation between time travel and time stop, besides being time-related. And the original thread didn't help.

Not really, the argument is for things that are in Little Planet, not outside, plus I don't see why Eggman tech wouldn't scale even, I don't see how the original thread didn't help you, staff members accepted it and your only argument seems from incredulity that you don't see how it is, but since this is a downgrade thread the burden of proof is on you to prove why it isn't a resistance

Goddamit! I'm not arguing whether or not the Maginariworld is real, I'm asking why the abilities they showcase there apply to the characters. They might enter through a portal at the beginning of the game, but they are clearly waking up by the end of it

Because it's real, the characters and the place are real therefore it's just like the storybook games where they scale even though it's a book, you claim to not be arguing about Maginary World being real yet your argument relies on it not being real via being a dream and not scaling. Plus you aren't even that knowelegeble in Shuffle, which makes this an argument from ignorance. Simply put the dreams are real and so are the characters, therefore feats in there apply to them, Sonic waking UP is probably related to Illumina completing herself, not that nothing in there is valid

 

[Oleggator]

Like this and this

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

Surface scaling isn't added to profiles if is done through sheer speed.

 

[Shmooply]

What are the arguments for hacking being removed from his profile, again? I don't see why would pressing several buttons make a futuristic door that was created by Robotnik lead to it overloading.

Like this and this

This is more a result of his speed instead of him somehow being glued to the walls, though I'm pretty sure he has shown the ability to stick to walls and stuff with one specific pair of shoes.

 

[Oleggator]

Well the second example technically didn't used speed, but ok then.

 

[Theuser789]

Like this and this

Sonic Lost World parkour is the only one who could be argued as such, but even then it's more a combination of speed and acrobatics

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Yeah, tell that to everyone that will read the profiles in the future with no context.

So apperantly this is a reason to ignore an entire thread that was literally about that just because people can't be bothered to actually look for a thread? Ok then.

I also saw you ignored my request to just look at the thread that discussed that so I'm once again asking: Please read the thread

 

[ShakeResounding]

Don't mind Surface Scaling being removed, since Sonic displays similar things through speed anyways.

Several staff looked through the CRT that added these things and concluded everything was fine, including things such as Time Stop. So "X doesn't have this from Y, so Sonic shouldn't have it from Z" is something that, with all due respect, likely doesn't matter here. If anything, it just shows that context matters.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Also here's surface scaling for you that isn't done with speed

Sonic is literally walking slowly and casually here

 

[Theuser789]

I actualy do think he is right, we shouldn't expect people to read other threads because the explanation in the page isn't clear enough, the page should be clear in order to not have any doubts

However if you are making a CRT, especially already being a veteran, you should look into why this ability is added if possible, which is the case here since the thread wasn't that old and your arguments rely on "I don't know if this is enough"

Also here's surface scaling for you that isn't done with speed

Sonic is literally walking slowly and casually here

That's obvious gameplay mechanics

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

That's obvious gameplay mechanics

Ok fine. If so surface scaling can be removed I guess

 

[Shmooply]

That's obvious gameplay mechanics

Sonic06

I dunno, man.

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

Not really, the argument is for things that are in Little Planet, not outside, plus I don't see why Eggman tech wouldn't scale even, I don't see how the original thread didn't help you, staff members accepted it and your only argument seems from incredulity that you don't see how it is, but since this is a downgrade thread the burden of proof is on you to prove why it isn't a resistance

It IS a resistance... to time manipulation. Making time go forward/backward to an arbitrary point is time manipulation, not time stop.

Because it's real, the characters and the place are real therefore it's just like the storybook games where they scale even though it's a book, you claim to not be arguing about Maginary World being real yet your argument relies on it not being real via being a dream and not scaling. Plus you aren't even that knowelegeble in Shuffle, which makes this an argument from ignorance. Simply put the dreams are real and so are the characters, therefore feats in there apply to them, Sonic waking UP is probably related to Illumina completing herself, not that nothing in there is valid

You seem to think that "Is a dream" and "Is real" are mutually exclusive. I get that the events and characters involved in Sonic Shuffle are real, I don't get why we assume that the quartet of playable Sonic characters was physically moved to Maginaryworld and are not some sort of avatars or similar, specially considering that in Maginaryworld "[...]dreams come true".

The implications of the characters being physically present in Maginaryworld are that Illumina decided to
*Leave Sonic sleeping in the middle of a forest
*Leave Tails sleeping under the Tornado, and putting oil stains in his face
*Leave Amy sleeping in a café

What are the arguments for hacking being removed from his profile, again? I don't see why would pressing several buttons make a futuristic door that was created by Robotnik lead to it overloading.

And I don't see why hacking a door makes the door explode instead of just, you know, opening it.

Also, not arguing for the Time Switch anymore. The way it works is weird, but I guess it works.

 

[Theuser789]

It IS a resistance... to time manipulation. Making time go forward/backward to an arbitrary point is time manipulation, not time stop.

Since you agreed below that Sonic still has resistance to time stop then adding resistance to time manipulation would be fine

You seem to think that "Is a dream" and "Is real" are mutually exclusive. I get that the events and characters involved in Sonic Shuffle are real, I don't get why we assume that the quartet of playable Sonic characters was physically moved to Maginaryworld and are not some sort of avatars or similar, specially considering that in Maginaryworld "[...]dreams come true".

The implications of the characters being physically present in Maginaryworld are that Illumina decided to
*Leave Sonic sleeping in the middle of a forest
*Leave Tails sleeping under the Tornado, and putting oil stains in his face
*Leave Amy sleeping in a café

Because you weren't being clear on what you meant until now, even then Mav already showed proof they were summoned there, your only evidence here is that they wake up later in different places, but that doesn't mean it was all a dream by itself, it could simply be how Illumina send the characters back home, especially since they were holding a precious stone, which wouldn't be possible if they weren't there, unless she travelled to them to give them, anyways burden of proof is on you to prove they are avatars

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

Because you weren't being clear on what you meant until now, even then Mav already showed proof they were summoned there,

The evidence is the intro of the game (Which is contradicted by the very first cutscene of the game), and the first cuscene of the game that shows them entering through a portal... which is literally how they move through Maginaryword.

your only evidence here is that they wake up later in different places, but that doesn't mean it was all a dream by itself, it could simply be how Illumina send the characters back home,

Which has the weird implications I was talking about before.

especially since they were holding a precious stone, which wouldn't be possible if they weren't there, unless she travelled to them to give them,

Do you even fiction?

anyways burden of proof is on you to prove they are avatars

...I have to prove that beings inside a world that turns dreams into reality are a product of dreams? I... don't think that's possible.

 

[Theuser789]

The evidence is the intro of the game (Which is contradicted by the very first cutscene of the game), and the first cuscene of the game that shows them entering through a portal... which is literally how they move through Maginaryword.

This is a contradictory statment that makes absolutely no sense, you say it's contradicted by the first cutscene yet you say in the same setence the first cutscene also has them enter through a portal, I don't see how Illumina sending them to different dream worlds through a portal proves your point, it just seems like you are randomly saying stuff that isn't connected with the assumption you are arguing the obvious when you clearly aren't

Which has the weird implications I was talking about before.

None of the things you listed have weird implications, you are making them have weird implications when via context it's a normal fictional trope after long adventures

Do you even fiction?

I don't see how ooc panels from Homestuck debunk the fact that Sonic had an item from Maginary World in the real world even though according to you he never went there

...I have to prove that beings inside a world that turns dreams into reality are a product of dreams? I... don't think that's possible.

You have to prove that those beings came from this dream world and were created by it instead of being the real ones brought there, yes, basic burden of proof, your point is not as obvious or self evident as you fooled yourself into thinking it is

 

[Theuser789]

Look, this is a downgrade thread, you are the one making the claims on why it should be removed, you are the one who needs to provide evidence on what you said, not simply say "well I don't know if this is enough" or "this doesn't happen in this verse", you are the one who needs to convince us that this should be removed, not the contrary, so please provide evidence that Sonic and Co were not the real ones in Shuffle

 

[ShakeResounding]

We can replace the link of the English manual for CD with the link for the JP manual for Resistance to Time Manip, along with better wording to match.

 

[Oleggator]

We can replace the link of the English manual for CD with the link for the JP manual for Resistance to Time Manip, along with better wording to match.

(I guess with translation cause would be not much a good idea to put just stuff in Japanese)

 

[Theuser789]

(I guess with translation cause would be not much a good idea to put just stuff in Japanese)

That should be obvious lol

 

[Oleggator]

That should be obvious lol

Obvious but still worth to mention imo.