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Weird scaling in Toei profiles.

Omegas03

Omegas03

1,986
612
soooo

Buu Saga Goku in BASE is listed as High 3-A, alrighty.

Cell Games Gohan (and therefore Super Perfect Cell) is listed as 3-C.

wut????

CG Gohan even in toei continuity was noted to be a benchmark by Majin Vegeta and Goku by the Buu Saga and was only noted to be surpassed once they turned SSJ2


soooooo why are Toei Cell and CG Gohan noted to be literally infinitely weaker than Buu Arc Goku?

Whats the evidence Buu Arc Goku (barring SSJ3) reaches High 3-A anyways?

TLDR

Pre Division Goku is barely stronger than CG Gohan, form by form. Cell, and both Buu Arc and CG Gohan are at least relative form by form. How then are the CG ones just 3-C?



My suggestion for this thread is to remove High 3-A completely for anyone who doesn't scale to SSJ3 Goku, and to also remove Pikkon's scaling as narratively it would be an outlier because of both Goku and Majin Vegeta barely surpassing Cell Games SSJ2 Gohan after going SSJ2s, ALSO SSJ2 Buu Saga Gohan should be > Buu Saga SSJ Goku as well so this contradicts any possibility of SSJ Goku > SPC from Other World Tournament.

fine, imma be just counting votes for now. For both topics.

Removing High 3-A from anything that isn't Pre Vegito Division SSJ3 Goku tier/on par with him (which would include Base to SSJ2 Goku/Vegeta):

Agree:
Disagree:

Dropping all the other world tournament scaling due to reasons I gave both in OP and this topic:

Agree (agreeing with this but disagreeing with removing High 3-A upgrades most of the end Cell Ssga and early Buu Saga cast to High 3-A):
Disagree

Agree for both (this downgrades anyone below SSJ3 Goku to 3-C):
Disagree for both:
 
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(Also, I think Other World tournament MESSES up the hell of the scaling).

There's a key for OW tournament Goku, but BARELY any time passed between CG and OW tournaments.

Goku not just wasn't noted to be much stronger if at all

Thing is that WEIGHTED Pikkon two shots Cell, yet was just somewhat superior to Base Goku.

Weighted Pikkon >~ Base Goku >>>> CG SSJ2 Gohan?

not just it doesn't make sense, but SSJ Goku was scared shitless the moment Cell was flying towards him. That wouldn't be a reaction if Goku was like 50x Cell. (Weighted Pikkon and Olibu were relative, and Buu Arc Yamcha also clowned Olibu)

7 Years Later, SSJ2 Gohan was STILL a benchmark for both Goku and Vegeta. Dabura and SSJ2 Adult Gohan (both of which are relative to Cell) are implied to clearly be > SSJ1 Goku which means Goku surpassing Cell during the OWT makes no sense.

Pikkon's feat is clearly an outlier due to what happened afterwards in the Buu Saga.
 
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I'm looking at there profiles and I'm also genuinely confused on where the High 3-A comes from for Goku. I thought it was because of the whole Afterlife shaking but if that's the case why doesn't his profile have him at 3-C or 3-B at base and then becomes High 3-A with SSJ3.
 
KaizerCone said:
I'm looking at there profiles and I'm also genuinely confused on where the High 3-A comes from for Goku. I thought it was because of the whole Afterlife shaking but if that's the case why doesn't his profile have him at 3-C or 3-B at base and then becomes High 3-A with SSJ3.
Click to expand...
downscaling to 1/400 of that infinite feat, I think.
 
Omegas03 said:
(Also, I think Other World tournament MESSES up the hell of the scaling).

There's a key for OW tournament Goku, but BARELY any time passed between CG and OW tournaments.

Goku not just wasn't noted to be much stronger if at all

Thing is that WEIGHTED Pikkon two shots Cell, yet was just somewhat superior to Base Goku.

Weighted Pikkon >~ Base Goku >>>> CG SSJ2 Gohan?

not just it doesn't make sense, but SSJ Goku was scared shitless the moment Cell was flying towards him. That wouldn't be a reaction if Goku was like 50x Cell. (Weighted Pikkon and Olibu were relative, and Buu Arc Yamcha also clowned Olibu)

7 Years Later, SSJ2 Gohan was STILL a benchmark for both Goku and Vegeta.

Pikkon's feat should be chalked up to either an outlier or just catching Cell off-guard/Cell evidently being non powered up, otherwise the scaling in the wikia just doesn't make any sense and actually contradicts the series narratively.
Click to expand...
It’s cause people don’t use outliers anymore so things like this fly by without so much as a glance
 
Omegas03 said:
(Also, I think Other World tournament MESSES up the hell of the scaling).

There's a key for OW tournament Goku, but BARELY any time passed between CG and OW tournaments.

Goku not just wasn't noted to be much stronger if at all

Thing is that WEIGHTED Pikkon two shots Cell, yet was just somewhat superior to Base Goku.

Weighted Pikkon >~ Base Goku >>>> CG SSJ2 Gohan?

not just it doesn't make sense, but SSJ Goku was scared shitless the moment Cell was flying towards him. That wouldn't be a reaction if Goku was like 50x Cell. (Weighted Pikkon and Olibu were relative, and Buu Arc Yamcha also clowned Olibu)

7 Years Later, SSJ2 Gohan was STILL a benchmark for both Goku and Vegeta.

Pikkon's feat should be chalked up to either an outlier or just catching Cell off-guard/Cell evidently being non powered up, otherwise the scaling in the wikia just doesn't make any sense and actually contradicts the series narratively.
Click to expand...
Wasn't it mentioned at some point that Goku was just growing stronger during the Tournament?
 
While it is made clear that Pikkon was immensely stronger than Cell and SS2 Gohan, later more relevant information could always contradict the older one. Goku and Vegeta at this point were far beyond SS2 Gohan in just their base forms, yet Vegeta was suprised that Goku surpassed Gohan as a SS2 meaning he's still a goalpost, Piccolo makes a similar statement like that later too.
 
How do we get this changed then? There's no section in this thread for any of us to agree or disagree to get this fixed because not only does it affect Goku's scaling in his Pre Vegito key but it also affects numerous other characters due to the unsurprising inconsistency as expected from the Toeiverse.
 
KaizerCone said:
How do we get this changed then? There's no section in this thread for any of us to agree or disagree to get this fixed
Click to expand...
The OP doesn't always need to have an agree or disagree section. It helps establish the progress of the thread yes but otherwise it's not that much of a necessity
KaizerCone said:
not only does it affect Goku's scaling in his Pre Vegito key but it also affects numerous other characters due to the unsurprising inconsistency as expected from the Toeiverse.
Click to expand...
We just edit their profiles too. but before that we also need to redo the AP blog since it has a lot of outdated stuff
 
its actually simple

I suggest Base to SSJ2 get downgraded to scale above Gohan form by form (3-C) and keep High 3-A for SSJ3 as the scaling actually goes from there

Vegeta could get an High 3-A rating via final explosion, and the weaker Buus can keep it too.

Pikkons feat vs Cell should be regarded as an outlier/Cell being off guard.
 
The problem is that Buu Saga completely contradicts the motion of Goku becoming ~100x stronger than CG Gohan form by form.

Hell, Buu Saga based on the Kili thing still implies Buu Saga SSJ2 Gohan > Buu Saga SSJ Goku.

And guess what, CG Gohan > 25 WMAT Gohan

Then two statements of CG Gohan STILL being a benchmark.

(Even if we still consided OWT scaling they arent High 3-A until SSJ3 Goku IIRC).
 
Omegas03 said:
The problem is that Buu Saga completely contradicts the motion of Goku becoming ~100x stronger than CG Gohan form by form.

Hell, Buu Saga based on the Kili thing still implies Buu Saga SSJ2 Gohan > Buu Saga SSJ Goku.

And guess what, CG Gohan > 25 WMAT Gohan

Then two statements of CG Gohan STILL being a benchmark.

(Even if we still consided OWT scaling they arent High 3-A until SSJ3 Goku IIRC).
Click to expand...
This weird scaling will make SSJ2 Gohan become High 3-A
 
Omegas03 said:
its actually simple

I suggest Base to SSJ2 get downgraded to scale above Gohan form by form (3-C) and keep High 3-A for SSJ3 as the scaling actually goes from there

Vegeta could get an High 3-A rating via final explosion, and the weaker Buus can keep it too.

Pikkons feat vs Cell should be regarded as an outlier/Cell being off guard.
Click to expand...

I agree with this, unless anyone has more arguments otherwise.
 
Definitely disagree with removing Pikkon's feat, at worst I'd make it scale to Pikkon's full power due to him using his flame aura.
SSJ Goku being stronger SPC doesn't change much anyway, we already treat him as nowhere near Gohan's true power.
 
Wasn't it also added for the anime scaling since Cell's profile in his SPC key is worded like he's equal or relative to SSJ2 Gohan.
"After his Zenkai, he grew in power to reach SSJ2 Gohan's level and broke his arm with a single ki blast."
 
KaizerCone said:
Wasn't it also added for the anime scaling since Cell's profile in his SPC key is worded like he's equal or relative to SSJ2 Gohan.
"After his Zenkai, he grew in power to reach SSJ2 Gohan's level and broke his arm with a single ki blast."
Click to expand...
Toei Gohans profile still says that he overpowered Cell with half of his ki left.
 
GT is canon to Toeiverse and Fusion Reborn is canon to it due to Gogeta being stated to be the same character in both. I don't know about Wrath of the Dragon other than the fact Trunks has Tapion's sword and Goku having the Dragon Fist.
 
Damage3245 said:
I agree with this, unless anyone has more arguments otherwise.
Click to expand...
Base Goku is objectively 1/400 as strong as his SSJ3 form, we can't just arbitrarily make it an infinite multiplier just because not doing so causes the scaling to go in a way we don't like

Also, Goku and Vegeta "barely" being stronger than SSJ2 Gohan in their SSJ2 forms is headcanon. OP genuinely just asserted that with no proof of this, and Pikkon's feat being an outlier is just handwaving scaling simply just because
 
You are giving a High 3-A rating to someone who has no feats to scale to such rating, thats a faulty use of multipliers.

Id understand if Base Goku was like, 1/2 of his SSJ3 form.

Back then we had Low 2-C Blueku via scaling above Infinite Zamasu YEEEET his SSG stayed 3-A despite being 1/50th of his SSB self
 
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