- 167,335
- 75,837
Immortalgodd makes some good points. Should we remove the 2015 run statistics, and if so, which profiles would be affected? Also, what should we do about Gabriel Hornblower? Should I delete the page?
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Vertigo revisions
- Thread starter Joemungousaur
- Start date
- Status
- 2,459
- 486
@Immortalggod Yeah I saw the thread, I don't think they are one in the same tbh.
But yeah, doesn't make sense that lucifer just lost his wings to my recollection, became a hobo in the middle of nowhere and tried looking for his son, it makes far more sense if, the story started with him being a hobo, then slowly finding his way back into everything, befriending mazikeen, and then vol 1 starts
But yeah, doesn't make sense that lucifer just lost his wings to my recollection, became a hobo in the middle of nowhere and tried looking for his son, it makes far more sense if, the story started with him being a hobo, then slowly finding his way back into everything, befriending mazikeen, and then vol 1 starts
- 139
- 15
- Thread starter
- #84
@Antvasima
For Gabriel's justification:
Outerverse level (One of the three Demiurgic Archangels involved in Creation. Stated to be comparable to Michael and Lucifer. Fought against Lucifer Morningstar during the war in Heave)
How is this?
and if 2015 run is non canon, then feats like Survived a heavy beating from the Archangel Metatro should be removed.
For Gabriel's justification:
Outerverse level (One of the three Demiurgic Archangels involved in Creation. Stated to be comparable to Michael and Lucifer. Fought against Lucifer Morningstar during the war in Heave)
How is this?
and if 2015 run is non canon, then feats like Survived a heavy beating from the Archangel Metatro should be removed.
Deleted member 2530
Guest
Many angels probably fought against Lucifer in the war. All he did was stab him. And aside from that one tweet, Gabriel has never been canonically stated in the same sentence with the brothers except when Presence made them. He should be as strong as other archangel like Uriel or Raphael.
- 10
- 3
All Lucifer's stories/appearances, in any form, are canon and are part of the character. Lucifer is "a fractal figure", as said Dan Watters.
https://retcon-punch.com/2018/10/17/commentary-track-dan-watters-talks-sandman-universe-1/
Recently : https://twitter.com/DanPGWatters/status/1184929519054020608
It should be noted that this idea of "fractal figure" also exists in the DC universe, and is therefore not an idea only belonging to Dan Watters.
https://i.imgur.com/UQoXI4y.jpg
In conclusion : Mike Carey's Lucifer, Holly Black's Lucifer and Dan Watters Lucifer are canon and, like a fractal, are a part that reflects the whole.
https://retcon-punch.com/2018/10/17/commentary-track-dan-watters-talks-sandman-universe-1/
Recently : https://twitter.com/DanPGWatters/status/1184929519054020608
It should be noted that this idea of "fractal figure" also exists in the DC universe, and is therefore not an idea only belonging to Dan Watters.
https://i.imgur.com/UQoXI4y.jpg
In conclusion : Mike Carey's Lucifer, Holly Black's Lucifer and Dan Watters Lucifer are canon and, like a fractal, are a part that reflects the whole.
- 15,362
- 15,637
???LordTracer said:
- 139
- 15
- Thread starter
- #88
He directly fought against Lucifer on 1v1, i think it's enought to be 1-A.Immortalgodd said:
Deleted member 2530
Guest
Also, Gabriel's entire participation in creation is to impose shape on world's after they cooling down. Which would probably mean planets. That is 5B feat.
- 139
- 15
- Thread starter
- #90
@LordTracer
I think an extra note isn't required.
I think an extra note isn't required.
Deleted member 2530
Guest
He directly fought against Lucifer on 1v1, i think it's enought to be 1-A.
In war many Angels fought off against Lucifer. Hell, Sandalphon even managed to capture Michael. Seeing how Gabriel comments Lucifer's strength being broken and in which condition Michael was captured one could even assume Lucifer and Michael had recently battled.
In war many Angels fought off against Lucifer. Hell, Sandalphon even managed to capture Michael. Seeing how Gabriel comments Lucifer's strength being broken and in which condition Michael was captured one could even assume Lucifer and Michael had recently battled.
- 15,362
- 15,637
Mkay, so the Destiny thing covers that. Just askin'.
- 139
- 15
- Thread starter
- #93
Inmortalgodd
You're downplay Gabriel, it was stated that Lucifer will weave Michael's power into suns, so he's 4-C?
You're downplay Gabriel, it was stated that Lucifer will weave Michael's power into suns, so he's 4-C?
- 139
- 15
- Thread starter
- #94
He directly fought against Lucifer on 1v1, i think it's enought to be 1-A.
In war many Angels fought off against Lucifer. Hell, Sandalphon even managed to capture Michael. Seeing how Gabriel comments Lucifer's strength being broken and in which condition Michael was captured one could even assume Lucifer and Michael had recently battled.
Hmm it makes sense.
In war many Angels fought off against Lucifer. Hell, Sandalphon even managed to capture Michael. Seeing how Gabriel comments Lucifer's strength being broken and in which condition Michael was captured one could even assume Lucifer and Michael had recently battled.
Hmm it makes sense.
Deleted member 2530
Guest
Yet, we have seen him create everything in like Issue 15?.Joemungousaur said:
- 167,335
- 75,837
That seems fine.Joemungousaur said:
We should probably remove all mentions of the 2015 Lucifer run, and mention why in a footnote in the Lucifer Morningstar (DC Comics) profile, yes.
- 167,335
- 75,837
I think so, with the exception of removing the 2015 series references, writing a brief footnote explanation in the Lucifer Morningstar (DC Comics) page, and possibly deleting Gabriel Hornblower.
- 1,969
- 323
Link to social influencing feat for Lucifer
- 1,969
- 323
What about the potential quotes for Lucifer and Michael?SuperAPM said:
- 1,969
- 323
I think Lucifer should have both:
"Why do they blame me for all their little failings? They use my name as if I spent my entire days sitting on their shoulders, forcing them to commit acts they would otherwise find repulsive. 'The devil made me do it.' I have never made one of them do anything. Never. They live their own tiny lives. I do not live their lives for them." -Lucifer to Dream in Season of Mists
"They used to call the devil the father of lies. But for someone whose sin is meant to be pride, you'd think that lying would leave something of a sour taste. So my theory is that when the devil wants to get something out of you, he doesn't lie at all. He tells you the exact, literal truth. And he lets you find your own way to hell." -David Easterman after meeting Lucifer.
For Michael:
"Because I retain a sense of duty to something beyond myself, you think of me as a fool. There are no grounds on which we can ever meet, Lucifer. So we must be content to pity each other from a distance."
For Desire:
"Desire smiles in brief flashes, like sunlight glinting from a knife-edge. And there is much else that is knife-like about Desire. Never a possession, always the possessor, with skin as pale as smoke, and eyes tawny and sharp as yellow wine: Desire is everything you have ever wanted. Whoever you are. Whatever you are. Everything." -Description in Season of Mists.
For Despair:
"Depair, Desire's sister and twin, is queen of her own bleak bourne. It is said that scattered through Despair's domain are a multitude of tiny windows, hanging in the void. Each window looks out onto a different scene, being, in our world, a mirror. Sometimes you will look into a mirror and feel the eyes of Despair upon you, feel her hook catch and snag on your heart."
For Delirium:
"Some say the tragedy of Delirium is her knowledge that, despite being older than suns, older than gods, she is forever the youngest of the Endless, who do not measure time as we measure time, or see the worlds through mortal eyes. Others deny this, and say that Delirium has no tragedy, but here they speak without reflection. For Delirium was once Delight."
For Destruction:
"I like the stars. It's the illusion of permanence, I think. I mean, they're always flaring up and caving in and going out. But from here, I can pretend...I can pretend that things last. I can pretend that lives last longer than moments. Gods come, and gods go. Mortals flicker and flash and fade. Worlds don't last; and stars and galaxies are transient, fleeting things that twinkle like fireflies and vanish into cold and dust. But I can pretend..." -Destruction to Dream in Brief Lives.
"Why do they blame me for all their little failings? They use my name as if I spent my entire days sitting on their shoulders, forcing them to commit acts they would otherwise find repulsive. 'The devil made me do it.' I have never made one of them do anything. Never. They live their own tiny lives. I do not live their lives for them." -Lucifer to Dream in Season of Mists
"They used to call the devil the father of lies. But for someone whose sin is meant to be pride, you'd think that lying would leave something of a sour taste. So my theory is that when the devil wants to get something out of you, he doesn't lie at all. He tells you the exact, literal truth. And he lets you find your own way to hell." -David Easterman after meeting Lucifer.
For Michael:
"Because I retain a sense of duty to something beyond myself, you think of me as a fool. There are no grounds on which we can ever meet, Lucifer. So we must be content to pity each other from a distance."
For Desire:
"Desire smiles in brief flashes, like sunlight glinting from a knife-edge. And there is much else that is knife-like about Desire. Never a possession, always the possessor, with skin as pale as smoke, and eyes tawny and sharp as yellow wine: Desire is everything you have ever wanted. Whoever you are. Whatever you are. Everything." -Description in Season of Mists.
For Despair:
"Depair, Desire's sister and twin, is queen of her own bleak bourne. It is said that scattered through Despair's domain are a multitude of tiny windows, hanging in the void. Each window looks out onto a different scene, being, in our world, a mirror. Sometimes you will look into a mirror and feel the eyes of Despair upon you, feel her hook catch and snag on your heart."
For Delirium:
"Some say the tragedy of Delirium is her knowledge that, despite being older than suns, older than gods, she is forever the youngest of the Endless, who do not measure time as we measure time, or see the worlds through mortal eyes. Others deny this, and say that Delirium has no tragedy, but here they speak without reflection. For Delirium was once Delight."
For Destruction:
"I like the stars. It's the illusion of permanence, I think. I mean, they're always flaring up and caving in and going out. But from here, I can pretend...I can pretend that things last. I can pretend that lives last longer than moments. Gods come, and gods go. Mortals flicker and flash and fade. Worlds don't last; and stars and galaxies are transient, fleeting things that twinkle like fireflies and vanish into cold and dust. But I can pretend..." -Destruction to Dream in Brief Lives.
- 1,969
- 323
Who can add them? The pages are locked.
- 1,969
- 323
Destiny, Death and Dream probably do but not sure about the other 4.
Also, Delirium's Madness Manipulation is Type 2, yes?
Also, Delirium's Madness Manipulation is Type 2, yes?
- 1,389
- 350
I added the quotes and clean-up the pages but some of them doesn't have the type of the ability. Maybe others too. This should be discussed.
I'm not knowledge about the characters and the verse.
Shouldn't all of them get concept manip? They listed as concept users in the cagetory.
I listed some Endless that doesn't has any type of the ability they have.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Delirium_of_the_Endless (Madness, Acausality)
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Destruction_of_the_Endless (Acausality)
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Dream_of_the_Endless (Transduality)
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Despair_of_the_Endless (Acausality, concept)
I'm not knowledge about the characters and the verse.
Shouldn't all of them get concept manip? They listed as concept users in the cagetory.
I listed some Endless that doesn't has any type of the ability they have.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Delirium_of_the_Endless (Madness, Acausality)
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Destruction_of_the_Endless (Acausality)
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Dream_of_the_Endless (Transduality)
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Despair_of_the_Endless (Acausality, concept)
Deleted member 2530
Guest
Yeah. 2018 is the non canon one.
- 139
- 15
- Thread starter
- #113
If 2015 is canon, then we should only change justification of third key.
- 139
- 15
- Thread starter
- #114
I think it's good for solid 1-A rating, though Lucifer was weakened in this battle, as mentioned by @Imortalgodd.Joemungousaur said:
- 139
- 15
- Thread starter
- #116
Then can I edit the page? I guess there's nothing left to do.
Final justification for Gabriel
Outerverse level (One of the three Demiurgic Archangels involved in Creation. Stated to be comparable to Michael and Lucifer. Fought against a weakened Lucifer Morningstar during the war in Heave)
Final justification for Gabriel
Outerverse level (One of the three Demiurgic Archangels involved in Creation. Stated to be comparable to Michael and Lucifer. Fought against a weakened Lucifer Morningstar during the war in Heave)
Deleted member 2530
Guest
2015 is non canon to current Sandman Universe though.
- 167,335
- 75,837
You can edit the Gabriel Hornblower page, yes. I will unlock it.
- 139
- 15
- Thread starter
- #119
I've made changes that necessary for Gabriel. I think there is nothing left to do.
- Status
