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Vertigo revisions

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Still, why does Gabriel scale to them though? I mean Lucifer and Michael are that strong because they are the vessels for Will and Power of The Presence. Has Gabriel shown anything to consider being on par with them at all?
 
Gabriel is one of the three Demiurgic Archangels involved in Creation and stated to be comparable to Michael and Lucifer by M.Carey.
 
Really, on series I don't think it was even mentioned he was even remotely close to them.
 
Can somebody check through the Vertigo category that I linked above, to see if we need to update any more characters from this scaling?
 
@joe is there anything besides that statement thats says there comparable, because I dont recall anything in the lucifer or sandman comics that puts gabriel anywhere near michael or lucifer?
 
Man, the justification itself is lame. But if its WoG. Then so be it. But are the Monitors above Endless? Because The World Forger seems to rely on Daniel to create worlds and stories and ideas are all possible because of him.
 
@Antvasima Can we start editing pages?

@Immortalgodd

The Endless should be above than Monitors, as they are are the primal truths which compose every aspect of The Presence's creation, which contains Monitor Sphere.
 
XArtist said:
@joe is there anything besides that statement thats says there comparable, because I dont recall anything in the lucifer or sandman comics that puts gabriel anywhere near michael or lucifer?
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No, there isn't. During the time of creation, Michael and Lucifer did the most. Did all the heavy lifting. Gabriel has nothing to show that he is even remotely comparable. I mean Lucifer and Michael are will and power. That is why they are so powerful. Gabriel has nothing going on for him.
 
Also, most of his tier seems to come from Lucifer 2015 which is non canon. And according to Antvasima and Sandman not applicable for profiles.
 
XArtist said:
lucifer 2015 not cannon really?
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Yep. Its non canon. Yet, the information from that series is used for Gabriel. Antvasima has told me that the information from that series cannot be used.
 
XArtist said:
doesnt elaine belloc profile take information from lucifer 2015 for the nigh omniscience
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I mean she has Nigh Omniscience in the end of Original Lucifer too. The profile of Gabriel is bugging me.
 
Joemungousaur said:
I think Non Canon is the Lucifer 2018 series, not the 2015 series.
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Dude. 2018 series is reboot but canon. The stories are observed by Neil Gaiman, similar to Kishimoto and Samurai 8. The Holly series is non canon. You can even ask the knowledgeable memebers.
 
So, I think you have to remove somethings from Gabriel's profile. There is nothing supporting 1A for him
 
well there is a note on lucifer profile that says the 2018 reboot is not canon because it completly ignores mike carey and holly blacks runs
 
From what I remember, we have scaled from the 2015 series, which was a continuation from where Carey left off, but not from the 2018 one, which rebooted everything.

Anyway, I will unlock all of the pages that I listed above. Please be extremely careful to not mess up their structures in any way.
 
Antvasima said:
From what I remember, we have scaled from the 2015 series, which was a continuation from where Carey left off, but not from the 2018 one, which rebooted everything.

Anyway, I will unlock all of the pages that I listed above. Please be extremely careful to not mess up their structures in any way.
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You previously said Holly Black run was noncanon.
 
I did? I do not remember that. However, I suppose that we might have to separate both the 2015 and 2018 series statistics into separate profiles at some point.
 
Antvasima said:
I did? I do not remember that. However, I suppose that we might have to separate both the 2015 and 2018 series statistics into separate profiles at some point.
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Yes. Because you said the run was apparently retconned and made no sense.
 
It has been retconned and it makes no sense. That is correct. However, it was canon at one point.

I would technically welcome if somebody experienced who knows what he/she is doing would move all of the relevant statistics (and scans of feats) from those runs into separate profiles.
 
When was it retconned? Iirc all that happened was that another writer took over, and that writer and holly black already stated they purposefully made everything too vague and ambiguos for the most part.
 
It was retconned with the new 2018 run.
 
Proven by? From what I have seen, the 2018 run actually comes before Vol 1, or 2000 run, I could be wrong though
 
I don't think 2015 needs a new stats. There weren't any quantifiable feats. Also, scaling Gabriel from that is a mistake. We didn't even know Michael was there until Lucifer pointed him out. He was no different from a fodder angel. There is no evidence that he even had Demiurgos power. Also, it was not ambiguous but nonsensical. Presence left creation yet we are to believe Presence was still there. Michael was dead yet he is back here with no explanations. How did Lucifer even give birth? Also, how the hell did his son inherit the Lightbringer powers? That was not ambiguous. That was outright nonsense.
 
Hykuu said:
Proven by? From what I have seen, the 2018 run actually comes before Vol 1, or 2000 run, I could be wrong though
Click to expand...
I had thought about that too. It made much more sense and the timeline fit too. I had made a thread about scaling Lucifer to GEB but Sandman didn't want to accept that and said it was a reboot.
 
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