Velvet Crowe vs Sub-Zero

[Kredory]

Alright, I'm just going to watch from the sidelines and count your votes with silly names of the combatants.

Let's get this bread.

Speed equalized, both are 7-B.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Fairly positive that Sub-Zero doesn't have an answer to most of her hax

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

The only way I can see Sub-Zero winning is if he freezes her entire body to AZ right off the bat before he gets hit by the Claw and has his soul eaten.

 

[Kredory]

Sub-Zero resists soul manipulation for being able to fight in the presence of massive soulnado that was draining the souls of a city and also kept his soul after being turned into a cyborg (Cyborgs, robots, etc. are soulless in the MK verse)

And Sub-Zero uses his ice powers at a distance most of the time

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

His profile states he doesn't have his Cyborg abilities in his 7-B key, this includes Soul Resistance.

 

[Kredory]

By Cyborg abilities, it means he doesn't have his tech anymore. He doesn't have his Enhanced Senses which includes being able to detect danger through a HUD, his Info Analysis which is also built into his cyborg HUD and his self-destruction which Sub-Zero obviously can't do as a human.

Plus Soul resistance still carries over since being turned back into a human doesn't do anything with losing soul resistance.

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

That should probably be clarified on the profile, as it greatly implies that the Soul resistance is a property of him being a cyborg. Regardless, even if he resists the Soul eating, he still gets his powers absorbed, as that is something the Claw also does.

 

[Kredory]

Does she need to touch people to take away their powers?

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

With her Claw, yes.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

That should probably be clarified on the profile, as it greatly implies that the Soul resistance is a property of him being a cyborg. Regardless, even if he resists the Soul eating, he still gets his powers absorbed, as that is something the Claw also does.

I should prolly do this

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

Sub-Zero resists soul manipulation for being able to fight in the presence of massive soulnado that was draining the souls of a city and also kept his soul after being turned into a cyborg (Cyborgs, robots, etc. are soulless in the MK verse)

This should be on the profile.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Forgot abou this one

How skilled is Velvet?

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

Very. Trained by the greatest swordsman on the planet and in her second key she has fought and defeated the second greatest swordsman (Who was implied to be more skilled than the greatest, just not as strong as them).

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Feats? At least a background to these guys

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

They were literally given those titles in universe, both have slain countless daemons, the greatest, Artorius Collbrande, is the leader of the Exorcists and Velvet's former teacher, who had travelled the world and amassed vast amounts of experience, he could face off against the entire party and avoid taking a single hit near the start of the game. The second, Shigure Rangetsu is an exorcist legate, said to be more skilled then Artorius, he too, was capable of overwhelming the party alone in the past, prior to the events of the game, he defeated Rokurou, a skilled swordsman in his own right, without being hit once.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

How skilled were the people she has beaten before?

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

The aforementioned Shigure Rangetsu was one, as said before, he was very skilled. She has also fought other high level exorcists, who are considered the best in an organization numbering in the hundreds of thousands, if not more (Being the primary military force on 5 continents).

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Sub-Zero has fought and defeated Goro and Kintaro in a 2v1, the former being able to hold his title as champion in Mortal Kombat for 500 years. Keep in mind that Goro has constantly fought Shaolin Monks and many other martial artists throughout the years and still beats them even though they have more knowledge on martial arts than him and have supernatural abilities such as elemental powers. It's impressive because Sub-Zero beat a guy who is super bored about fighting Shaolin Monks except for Liu Kang (Goro even told Liu Kang that he was hoping for a worthy Shaolin to fight against, implying that skilled martial artists are fodder to Goro)

He has defeated Ermac twice, who has the battle experience and minds of thousands of at least thousands of years old Edenian warriors who have fought back against Shao Kahn's invasion. He is experienced enough to train an entire clan of warriors to become Lin Kuei assassins and he did this all by himself.

He has also defeated and surpassed his brother, Bi-Han, who has fought of an immortal Elder God named Shinnok (said god has eons of experience fighting Raiden) and Quan Chi, a thousand year old sorcerer knowledgable on the most potent magic in MK.

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

Oh, another thing, Velvet also regularly fights malakhim, beings that can live several thousand years, including Eizen, who has lived 1000 years by Berseria and spent much of that time fighting due to to immensely bad luck granted by his curse.

Mind you, it does sound like Sub-Zero has more skill, but not by such an amount that it would change much in the fight.

 

[Zero0zero0zero]

Velvet mid diffs for having more variety on this fight.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I don't think versatility would work against Sub-Zero seeing how he fought against Ermac who has telekinesis and several other supernatural powers

Also Sub-Zero usually starts with ice powers at long range, attacking him with melee gets countered with his Ice Parry, ice clones, shields, etc. that all freeze on contact with them

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

Velvet does have some resistance to ice (though it isn't on her profile yet) via surviving this, her Claw would also Absorb his abilities even if it wouldn't kill him instantly, she would also keep growing stronger and weakening him with her artes and Claw.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

That's not resistance to ice, that's merely tanking the attack. Resisting it means not being frozen which is clearly not shown in the video.

Plus does it absorb biological abilties? Sub-Zero creates ice in a more natural way by means of absorbing air or emitting cold air.

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

I'm not sure, honestly. The Absorption itself seems to be magical in nature, though her Claw's adaptation seems to be less so. Does that mean Sub-Zero literally has organs inside him that allow him to absorb and emit cold air? If so, it probably doesn't absorb that, but anything else likely would be absorbed.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I mean, it's never stated to be magical in any canon source, so there's that.

What do you mean by "anything else"? What else can she absorb besides magical powers and souls?

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

As for the resisting ice, she does also have abilities that say something along the lines of "take x% less damage from water type attacks" (this includes ice), so that would probably count anyways.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I'm not sure how does damage reduction against ice attacks respond with having your water and body content frozen solid or absolute zero

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

What I meant by anything else is any magical abilities he may have. Also, I don't think it not being stated as magical is quite enough, doesn't the MK verse have magic abilities for the most part? Assuming this particular ability is biological if others are magical seems a bit off unless explicitly stated that he does so through biological means.

I'd assume it decreases the damage dealt by said freezing.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

What I meant by anything else is any magical abilities he may have. Also, I don't think it not being stated as magical is quite enough, doesn't the MK verse have magic abilities for the most part? Assuming this particular ability is biological if others are magical seems a bit off unless explicitly stated that he does so through biological means.
I'd assume it decreases the damage dealt by said freezing.

There are characters who are stated to be magical in nature or use magic, see Ermac for example. Plus you can't just say that a verse has mostly magical abilities therefore everyone should fall under this. Raiden controls storms without magic, Fujin controls wind without magic, Scorpion controls hellfire without magic, etc.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I'd assume it decreases the damage dealt by said freezing.

Tbh it sounds like game mechanics to me, freezing doesn't kill people most of the time unless it freezes your insides which negates dura

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

Scorpion, Fujin and Raiden aren't considered magic, that's odd. Also, I don't believe such things are generally treated as game mechanics.

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

Velvet's heat manipulation can also counter his ice, her Gravity Manipulation can trap him, leaving him open to attacks, her Amping and Reduction will be constantly making her stronger and him weaker and slower, her Life Manipulation will be negating damage dealt to her and her Adaptation will allow her Claw to grow in power against Sub-Zero and her Regen can help her hold out longer. I'm voting Velvet for these reasons.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I'm not sure how heat helps against AZ temperatures

Gravity manip seems dodgeable by TP

Amping and reduction is balanced out by chi manip which she can't absorb

Life manip won't negate durability bypassing abilities, and Sub-Zero has better range and experience which matters alot here.

 

[Theglassman12]

Where is it stated that his ice can reach AZ?

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

Is all his ice stuff AZ? Even if it is, Regen can counter that unless he freezes her entire body solid. Gravity manip is dodgeable, but that doesn't make it any less useful. Him amping via Chi Manip will only balance out Reduction, she'll still be getting stronger, not only from her artes but also the fact that her Claw grows stronger the more damage she takes. Life manip won't negate them, but it will make up for the damage dealt, his experience advantage isn't that significant.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

It's in his profile, he freezes entire bodies solid too

Why would not dodging something be less useful? Plus she won't take damage from AZ temperatures since she's already dead from that.

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

He has to hit the entire body to do that, she won't just be standing still waiting to be iced, his profile says it reaches up to those temperatures, which implies it to be the peak, not the baseline. It's still gravity manip, if he gets close enough to be pulled in, he gets pulled in, still fairly useful.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Sub-Zero can teleport away from most of what she can do, look at his range. Sub-Zero won't be standing still either, and she has to handle getting the water content of her frozen when he lowers the temperature of your body with his ice.

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

What is the range of his teleportation anyways? Does he use it a lot? Also him teleporting around isn't going to stop him from being hit completely, her fighting style also involves a lot of dodging and jumping around, so maybe a bit harder to hit than most, also, her regen will be correcting any damage done by the temperature lowering.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Check his page, it's hundreds of meters.

Dodging and jumping around isn't anything new to him as his rival spams that alongside instant teleportation in character. Plus he has fought bullet timers who do the same too.

How fast is her Regenerationn? Sub-Zero has enough time to detonate his own ice with Ice Burst from a distance if it's not fast enough.