Vampire Hunter D: Cosmology Upgrade (1-A??????)

[Lightning_XXI]

If everything we needed was that revision over, I guess we can continue here

I remember reading that blog some time ago and looking at it now, I still agree with the upgrades, although 11D is "just" 1-C now

 

[Kaiser0079]

Bump?

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Alright, so, getting to the spicier parts of the blog:

Dreams​

I don't think there is much of note, here. From what I see, it definitely isn't 1-A under the new standards. The dreams are extremely vaguely defined and it isn't clear that they are actually superior and inferior realities and not just special alternate worlds. The latter interpretation is more supported by the text, if anything, given that:

D went up to the driver’s seat. His movements were free from hesitation. No matter how bad the jolting, it never upset the young man’s sense of equilibrium in the slightest.
He could immediately tell that JJ, slumped backward, was sleeping. Quickly shifting the man over to the shotgun seat and taking his place in the driver’s seat, D put his left hand against JJ’s brow.

“How is he?”

“Not good,” the hoarse voice responded. “The final retrieval unit is powered by galactic motion. That’s a wee bit beyond my reach.”

Immediately taking his left hand away, D asked, “What’s its influence on reality?”

“At the moment, there’s none. But its energy is nearly infinite. It could probably engineer something.”

The Hunter’s right hand was working the reins, and the horses were slowing from their mad gallop.

“But this is no time to worry about that. Right now, the enemy’s probably wringing out info on how to take care of you. Who knows what a creature from another world’s thinking? There’s no telling what kind of play it’ll make for you. Better be—”

The reference to "energy" here seems to be interpreted as referring to how the dream world has energy, in the blog. Given this energy that is emergent from it can affect reality, it seems to genuinely be just a weird realm. This seems to be reiterated in the following quote, too:

"Probe our situation, and the dream becomes reality, or reality becomes the dream. Which is how I was able to leave my cage without anyone interfering. But it’s difficult to make a complete shift. Reality pushes into the dream, and the dream mixes with reality. That’s why I needed the key in reality to unlock the cage door in the dream.”
“I really don’t follow at all,” Claire confessed.

“To wit, we may yet run into someone we’d rather not. If we do, I shall need your help.”

“Someone—you mean D?”

“That one . . .”

The expression was wiped off Dorleac’s face. It was miraculous, taking only a heartbeat. You could almost hear the color draining from him, and his expression changed so quickly—both telltale signs. What fear, however, could rob the young man of his composure in an instant?

“He’s the only one . . . who didn’t fall under the dream’s power. Even when he’s in the dream, he remains tethered to reality. If he were here, the dream world would turn back to reality. Or into his world. That’s what sort of man he is . . .”

So, yeah, no hierarchy or R>F here.

Nothingness​

Likewise, doesn't seem to hold much that's of relevance. None of the quotes provided really characterize the nothingness as something that is superior to normal reality. At best it's described as "a space that doesn't exist" and similar.

The tidbit about mathematical constructs is interesting but doesn't suggest much, either, and it certainly can't be extrapolated into VHD's cosmology being a Type IV Multiverse, since mathematical structures are just... normal things in math, and even if you interpret the quote as implying that reality is governed by some kind of cosmic mathematics in VHD, it doesn't mean that all possible mathematical objects are physically instantiated there.

Universal Consciousness​

Yeah, no, I don't see any transcendence over duality here. You don't elaborate much on the whole Light/Darkness thing at all (Even though you say it could as well take up its own blog), and even the statements about the Universal Consciousness itself are pretty middling, since it's just stated to be a surpassing of "all the dark fates of humans and nobility."

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see the association between it and the "realm beyond thought" that one of the quotes in this section mentions, and nor do I see any evidence that Universal Consciousness is some kind of archetypal realm.

Akashic Records​

Yeah, there is no Reality-Fiction Transcendence to speak of here, either. Seems to be just a weird aether that encodes all information of existence in it (And therefore existence itself). That's not R>F per se.

Chaos​

Seems pretty vague. Mostly just indicated to be whatever preceded the creation of the universe. There's not really anything evidencing an extra layer of infinity here.

---

There is also the talk about higher dimensions, and of the miscellaneous weird realms in the cosmology. From what I gather, the latter don't have anything noteworthy. The former isn't Low 1-C, also, since we don't know how large the fourth spatial axis of the universe is, it seems.

 

[RM97]

Dreams​

I don't think there is much of note, here. From what I see, it definitely isn't 1-A under the new standards. The dreams are extremely vaguely defined and it isn't clear that they are actually superior and inferior realities and not just special alternate worlds. The latter interpretation is more supported by the text, if anything, given that:


The reference to "energy" here seems to be interpreted as referring to how the dream world has energy, in the blog. Given this energy that is emergent from it can affect reality, it seems to genuinely be just a weird realm. This seems to be reiterated in the following quote, too:


So, yeah, no hierarchy or R>F here.

If R>F doesn't qualify thats fine, but it would still have an hierarchy based on Sybille's quotes where Dreams can be created inside Dreams. And so far we have seen a Dream inside a Dream inside Sybille's Dream. As explained here why the lower dreams wouldn't be 11-C or something:

OP means that the lower dreams are real in relation to the main universe, not being real compared to the higher dream. The main universe exists separately from the dream hierarchy.

Nothingness​

Likewise, doesn't seem to hold much that's of relevance. None of the quotes provided really characterize the nothingness as something that is superior to normal reality. At best it's described as "a space that doesn't exist" and similar.

The tidbit about mathematical constructs is interesting but doesn't suggest much, either, and it certainly can't be extrapolated into VHD's cosmology being a Type IV Multiverse, since mathematical structures are just... normal things in math, and even if you interpret the quote as implying that reality is governed by some kind of cosmic mathematics in VHD, it doesn't mean that all possible mathematical objects are physically instantiated there.

I don't think "all possible mathematical objects are physically instantiated there.". What I meant is that any possible mathematical objects cannot be physically instantiated there. It's a place where no mathematical construct can exist.

Universal Consciousness​

Yeah, no, I don't see any transcendence over duality here. You don't elaborate much on the whole Light/Darkness thing at all (Even though you say it could as well take up its own blog), and even the statements about the Universal Consciousness itself are pretty middling, since it's just stated to be a surpassing of "all the dark fates of humans and nobility."

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see the association between it and the "realm beyond thought" that one of the quotes in this section mentions, and nor do I see any evidence that Universal Consciousness is some kind of archetypal realm.

Yeah, it's my fault that I did not make that blog yet. However, from what's given, the Universal Consciousness is where the Souls of the People exist as Perfected Forms of Intelligent Life. Not to mention they are inaccessible to Nobles who can access higher dimensions.

Akashic Records​

Yeah, there is no Reality-Fiction Transcendence to speak of here, either. Seems to be just a weird aether that encodes all information of existence in it (And therefore existence itself). That's not R>F per se.

What about the part that all of creation and its hierchies/layers are just information to the Akashic records which showcases qualitative superiority, and hence why Akashic Records is stated to govern all of creation?

Chaos​

Seems pretty vague. Mostly just indicated to be whatever preceded the creation of the universe. There's not really anything evidencing an extra layer of infinity here.

I didn't put it as an extra layer of infinity. Just something that resides outside of the Akashic Records which governs all of Creation.

There is also the talk about higher dimensions, and of the miscellaneous weird realms in the cosmology. From what I gather, the latter don't have anything noteworthy. The former isn't Low 1-C, also, since we don't know how large the fourth spatial axis of the universe is, it seems.

The fourth spatial axis of the Universe is likely Infinite/Endless in size given these two quotes. The first is Sigma's Sealed Space (A supercomputer created by the Nobles):

D and the source of the voice were in a space that had been distorted four-dimensionally; they could have kept going forever.

“Looks like we’re gonna break the speed of light. If we do, it’ll be trouble,” the voice continued. “I’ll connect us to another extradimensional space. We’ve gotta escape. I ate some dirt earlier. Fire we can manage. Water I’ll leave to you.”

“Congratulations on breaking free of my sealed dimension,” an austere male voice said. “But it must’ve been quite hard on you. You’re under a spell, aren’t you?”

The Second being King Minos's Labyrinth:

“It’s King Minos’s labyrinth,” the hoarse voice remarked in a deeply troubled tone. “Not only can that sword Glencalibur, or whatever he calls it, cut open a dimension, but it looks like it can also connect it to any place he thinks of. This labyrinth is where a half man, half bull called the Minotaur, a creature born to the king’s consort, was locked away before written history. It was built by the legendary craftsman Daedalus in ancient times, and only the Sacred Ancestor could’ve reproduced it so faithfully. I’d heard this place was destroyed when the Nobility’s civilization collapsed, but here it is.”

“Let’s go,” D said.

“Waiting here would be the best strategy,” the left hand retorted. “No one who’s ventured into the labyrinth has ever made it back out. I’m not so sure my sense of direction can be counted on. It’s enclosed by something other than four-dimensional space.”

The labyrinth of King Minos was built as an endless dungeon to hold the Minotaur. Every year the Minotaur had demanded beautiful women and men in the flower of youth for sustenance, until finally the hero Theseus, with the aid of a ball of thread brought in secret by one brave beauty, was able to conquer the maze and find his way to slay the creature with his sword.

The reason why I'm saying that the fourth spatial axis of the universe is likely Infinite/Endless in size is because both the Sealed Space of Sigma and King Minos' Labyrinth are alternate 4D extradimensional spaces with similar characteristics. So there's no reason to assume that the fourth spatial axis of the universe will be anything small, especially when there is evidence of multiple extradimensional/4D realms in the Universe based on Sigma's Quote and also from this Quote in Volume 12:

Perhaps as a reaction to the time they’d been ruled, the humans grew extremely tenacious in their searches and investigations, but they ended with several targets on their lists never being located. When Nobles had an ace up their sleeve like the ability to access extra-dimensional spaces, it came as little surprise humanity couldn’t beat them. Perhaps Vlad, too, had mastered such dimension control.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

If R>F doesn't qualify thats fine, but it would still have an hierarchy based on Sybille's quotes where Dreams can be created inside Dreams.

The absence of R>F is more or less precisely why I question that these dreams are really hierarchical, at least in the sense of each dream being inferior or superior to the other. Doesn't seem like these nestings are meant to convey this whatsoever.

I don't think "all possible mathematical objects are physically instantiated there.". What I meant is that any possible mathematical objects cannot be physically instantiated there. It's a place where no mathematical construct can exist.

I meant, instantiated in normal reality. Your claim that the statement is a reference to Type IV Multiverses seemed to imply that VHD's cosmology is one, which I found questionable. If this is not what you meant, then fair enough.

I didn't put it as an extra layer of infinity. Just something that resides outside of the Akashic Records which governs all of Creation.

Yeah, my bad, then.

What about the part that all of creation and its hierchies/layers are just information to the Akashic records which showcases qualitative superiority, and hence why Akashic Records is stated to govern all of creation?

That's not really an indicator of qualitative superiority. It doesn't seem to be "The Akashic Records are so transcendental over the universe that they see it as information," so much as, the universe fundamentally is information, and this information is encoded in the Records.

The fourth spatial axis of the Universe is likely Infinite/Endless in size given these two quotes. The first is Sigma's Sealed Space (A supercomputer created by the Nobles):

"We can keep going endlessly" doesn't necessarily indicate the fourth spatial axis is large. A space could be infinite in the other axes, after all. And given the emphasis on the space being "distorted four-dimensionally," it could be something else entirely, as well. (The image of taking a piece of paper and twisting it 3-dimensionally so both of its ends meet comes to mind). Overall, far too vague, and has reasonable interpretations that don't involve an infinitely-sized fourth dimension.

The reason why I'm saying that the fourth spatial axis of the universe is likely Infinite/Endless in size is because both the Sealed Space of Sigma and King Minos' Labyrinth are alternate 4D extradimensional spaces with similar characteristics.

I apply the same that was said above to the Labyrinth, as well. There being multiple of these higher-dimensional spaces doesn't necessarily mean much, either.

 

[RM97]

The absence of R>F is more or less precisely why I question that these dreams are really hierarchical, at least in the sense of each dream being inferior or superior to the other. Doesn't seem like these nestings are meant to convey this whatsoever.

So even if recursive dreams have no R>F, they wouldn't even have a basic 1-dimensional layer above the lower one?

I meant, instantiated in normal reality. Your claim that the statement is a reference to Type IV Multiverses seemed to imply that VHD's cosmology is one, which I found questionable. If this is not what you meant, then fair enough.

Oh no, that's not what I meant. I meant that the Nothingness could encompass and swallow up anything even if it is a Type 4 Multiverse based on the "Any Mathematical Structure" comment.

That's not really an indicator of qualitative superiority. It doesn't seem to be "The Akashic Records are so transcendental over the universe that they see it as information," so much as, the universe fundamentally is information, and this information is encoded in the Records.

Ah I see.

"We can keep going endlessly" doesn't necessarily indicate the fourth spatial axis is large. A space could be infinite in the other axes, after all. And given the emphasis on the space being "distorted four-dimensionally," it could be something else entirely, as well. (The image of taking a piece of paper and twisting it 3-dimensionally so both of its ends meet comes to mind). Overall, far too vague, and has reasonable interpretations that don't involve an infinitely-sized fourth dimension.

I apply the same that was said above to the Labyrinth, as well. There being multiple of these higher-dimensional spaces doesn't necessarily mean much, either.

But considering the fact that Nobles have complete control over Space and can create infinite-sized realms as well as pack infinity into finity, wouldn't it give more credibility to the interpretation that Sigma's Space is an infinitely-sized fourth dimension? Especially when Noble Techs/Castles have Infinite Energy to pull off these shenanigans as per these quotes from Volume 1, 28, and 2 respectively:

But, in the Nobility’s age of prosperity, that had mattered little.
Superspeed highways wound to every distant corner of the Frontier, linear motor cars and the like formed a transportation grid that boasted of completely accident-free operation, and the massive energy production facilities erected in and around the Capital constantly provided buses and freight cars that mimicked those of ancient times, but with an infinite store of energy.

“The rest of you will live. Even without the Nobility, you could use the infinite energy of the castle. After the humans and Nobles are gone, it might be your kind that rules the world.”

With this word, the whole melted and the crumbled universe touched D’s back and reversed direction. It was as if the dimension had been turned inside out.
The next instant, however, up in the laboratory in the ruins, fire spouted from a small device.
A millisecond later, the auto-repair circuits went into operation, but the speed of the destruction wreaked by the extreme energy force that had broken through the sealed dimension far exceeded that of the countermeasures.
Destruction pitted against reconstruction.
Losing the ability to make proper assessments, the repair circuits adjusted the programs to draw on all the energy in the ruins. The rip in the sealed dimension overlapped with dimensions in other completely different locations.

Also what about the Quantitative difference between dimensions as I explained at the top of the blog? Wouldn't that negate the need for Significant/Infinite size since the difference between a lower and a higher dimension is infinite in verse (Which is even accepted in this thread here)?

 

[Ultima_Reality]

So even if recursive dreams have no R>F, they wouldn't even have a basic 1-dimensional layer above the lower one?

Yeah. In this case I also heavily suspect that dreams are, as said, functionally just weird alternate planes portrayal-wise, so, yeah.

But considering the fact that Nobles have complete control over Space and can create infinite-sized realms as well as pack infinity into finity, wouldn't it give more credibility to the interpretation that Sigma's Space is an infinitely-sized fourth dimension? Especially when Noble Techs/Castles have Infinite Energy to pull off these shenanigans as per these quotes from Volume 1, 28, and 2 respectively:

Not exactly. Creating infinitely-sized 3-D realms isn't exactly suggestive of creating infinitely-sized 4-D realms, after all.

Also what about the Quantitative difference between dimensions as I explained at the top of the blog? Wouldn't that negate the need for Significant/Infinite size since the difference between a lower and a higher dimension is infinite in verse (Which is even accepted in this thread here)?

(Don't use that term pls) Lower-dimensional objects having 0 measure in higher-dimensional space is just normal. That's not necessarily indicative of Infinite superiority in power. See the FAQ for reference.

 

[RM97]

Yeah. In this case I also heavily suspect that dreams are, as said, functionally just weird alternate planes portrayal-wise, so, yeah.


Not exactly. Creating infinitely-sized 3-D realms isn't exactly suggestive of creating infinitely-sized 4-D realms, after all.


(Don't use that term pls) Lower-dimensional objects having 0 measure in higher-dimensional space is just normal. That's not necessarily indicative of Infinite superiority in power. See the FAQ for reference.

So based on what I have written in the OP, what would you say will the tiers be so far?

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Well, not 1-A, I can say that much. Given the non-hierarchical dreams within dreams within dreams, which each seem to be fully-fledged dimensions of infinite size, I'm tempted to say the Records are around 2-A? Probably have to check more closely to be sure.

 

[RM97]

Well, not 1-A, I can say that much. Given the non-hierarchical dreams within dreams within dreams, which each seem to be fully-fledged dimensions of infinite size, I'm tempted to say the Records are around 2-A? Probably have to check more closely to be sure.

2-A how when Records before were Low 1-C and in this new CRT there is a bunch of stuff added in between like that Gap Between Dimensions realm, the Nothingness, Will of Macrocosm/Universal Consciousness, etc.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

2-A how when Records before were Low 1-C and in this new CRT there is a bunch of stuff added in between like that Gap Between Dimensions realm, the Nothingness, Will of Macrocosm/Universal Consciousness, etc.

Wasn't really aware that it was already rated at Low 1-C (Or more precisely, I forgot). I have to say that the current reasoning for it seems a bit weak, but I won't go further, since that's not the purpose of this thread.

In any case: Yeah, I don't think most of these realms actually add much to the cosmology, as far as tier jumps go. The only thing of interest seems to be the Universal Consciousness, given the potential nonduality stuff, but you've yet to explain that.

 

[RM97]

Yeah, I don't think most of these realms actually add much to the cosmology, as far as tier jumps go.

Exactly why though? Even if the Multiverse contains 4D worlds including the Dream Worlds, the Main Universe and Alternate Dimensions, you come across the Gap Between Dimensions which is described as a place lacking Length, Breadth, Height, and Time and contains all the dimensions as it is the very thing that exists between them. The size is also infinite given it took D hundreds of millions of years just to get from a certain point A to a point between the gap between two dimensions despite his Infinite Speed. Also that hundreds of millions of years spent here is 0 time in the main universe. So this Gap Between Dimensions would be at least 5D. Then there's the nothingness with the whole "Any Mathematical Structure Cannot Exist Here" statement. Even if we put it on the flip side of cosmology as complete nonexistence, it'll be 5D too. Then there's Universal Consciousness and then finally the Akashic Records which are both inaccessible to the Nobles despite their ability to access higher dimensions (including the Gap Between Dimensions and the Nothingness). Akashic Records is a "Tremendously Vast" realm given D and Matthew's distance was seemingly 6 feet but in actuality, it was Infinite in distance. It also contains info on all of creation including nonexistent beings and stuff as well as governs all of creation. It remained unaffected when D rewrote the entire Timeline with different events and lacks Space-Time as the ether passively erases Space and Time. It can only be accessed by the Gate of the Sacred Ancestor and if you have his powers. For normal humans, you can only access it when dreaming such as in the case of Sue. This would make the Akashic Records an even bigger infinity than the Gap Between Dimensions, making it 6D.

The only thing of interest seems to be the Universal Consciousness, given the potential nonduality stuff, but you've yet to explain that.

Basically Light and Darkness are dualities in the verse where Light is associated with Humans as well as Holyness and Existence, Darkness is associated with the Nobles, Unholyness, and Nonexistence. In Vol 2, Lina said that she and the Children will break free of the fates of Darkness and Light and join the Universal Consciousness/Will of the Macrocosm as Perfected Forms of Intelligence. It'll take some time bc I'm going through the novels again to find more stuff out. Plus the new translated novel just released today, so I will have to go through it soon when I get my hands on it.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Bump

I'm particularly invested how this goes

 

[Eseseso]

Bump

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Exactly why though? Even if the Multiverse contains 4D worlds including the Dream Worlds, the Main Universe and Alternate Dimensions, you come across the Gap Between Dimensions which is described as a place lacking Length, Breadth, Height, and Time and contains all the dimensions as it is the very thing that exists between them. The size is also infinite given it took D hundreds of millions of years just to get from a certain point A to a point between the gap between two dimensions despite his Infinite Speed. Also that hundreds of millions of years spent here is 0 time in the main universe. So this Gap Between Dimensions would be at least 5D. Then there's the nothingness with the whole "Any Mathematical Structure Cannot Exist Here" statement. Even if we put it on the flip side of cosmology as complete nonexistence, it'll be 5D too.

Well, no, they wouldn't be 5-D or 6-D. They're evidently non-dimensional things, so the only options for them are: 1) 1-A. b) Unquantifiable. I don't see anything about the Gap Between Dimensions that would warrant 1-A at all. In the blog, you noted two things about it:

1) "we are given that the Realm has no length, breadth, height, and flow of time aka it is a Plane of Existence beyond 4D to the point they are non-existent there." The text doesn't suggest this. It just says that Length, Width, Height and Time don't exist there. Not that the realm is so superior to them that they're nonexistent there. There is a difference.

2) "and it is so large that even though D was traveling somewhere between two different dimensions/universes/worlds and despite having Infinite Speed and taking over 300 Million years, he was still stuck in the gap between two universes/worlds." This doesn't mean much, either. If space doesn't exist in that realm, then someone with Infinite Speed (i.e. Still bound by space) wandering in there for a while doesn't make it infinite size. Because if it's spaceless, then it has no size in that sense to begin with.

The realm existing in-between dimensions doesn't amount to much, either. Obviously, aspatial realms aren't spatially related to anything, so our intuitive notion of "A space in-between two physical objects" doesn't apply in that situation. You'd need both elaboration on the nature of its relation to dimensional space, and indication of superiority over it. Both of which are absent here.

And even then, the non-dimensional realm described doesn't actually seem to be the space between dimensions. The text seems to consistently describe it as "another world," "another universe," and etc. So it seems that, here, it's just being described as one dimension, and D's universe as another, with the "space" between the two being mentioned as a separate thing:

After a few hundred million years had passed in this world without time, D finally ascertained that a group of coffins existed at the heart of a defensive system in an enormous nebula. As he approached, the nebula glowed weirdly, its very light trying to destroy D, but all of its attacks were drawn down the connection to the Hunter’s world and expelled in the space between the two dimensions. It took another hundred million years to reach the center of the nebula, and there at the center of countless geometric patterns D finally saw three coffins.

So, unquantifiable it is.

Akashic Records is a "Tremendously Vast" realm given D and Matthew's distance was seemingly 6 feet but in actuality, it was Infinite in distance. It also contains info on all of creation including nonexistent beings and stuff as well as governs all of creation. It remained unaffected when D rewrote the entire Timeline with different events and lacks Space-Time as the ether passively erases Space and Time. It can only be accessed by the Gate of the Sacred Ancestor and if you have his powers. For normal humans, you can only access it when dreaming such as in the case of Sue. This would make the Akashic Records an even bigger infinity than the Gap Between Dimensions, making it 6D.

The Records seem like they're already accepted as one tier above the rest, so, I won't contest that.

Basically Light and Darkness are dualities in the verse where Light is associated with Humans as well as Holyness and Existence, Darkness is associated with the Nobles, Unholyness, and Nonexistence. In Vol 2, Lina said that she and the Children will break free of the fates of Darkness and Light and join the Universal Consciousness/Will of the Macrocosm as Perfected Forms of Intelligence. It'll take some time bc I'm going through the novels again to find more stuff out. Plus the new translated novel just released today, so I will have to go through it soon when I get my hands on it.

Yeah, I'll wait for the relevant quotes on that.

 

[RM97]

Well, no, they wouldn't be 5-D or 6-D. They're evidently non-dimensional things, so the only options for them are: 1) 1-A. b) Unquantifiable. I don't see anything about the Gap Between Dimensions that would warrant 1-A at all. In the blog, you noted two things about it:

1) "we are given that the Realm has no length, breadth, height, and flow of time aka it is a Plane of Existence beyond 4D to the point they are non-existent there." The text doesn't suggest this. It just says that Length, Width, Height and Time don't exist there. Not that the realm is so superior to them that they're nonexistent there. There is a difference.

2) "and it is so large that even though D was traveling somewhere between two different dimensions/universes/worlds and despite having Infinite Speed and taking over 300 Million years, he was still stuck in the gap between two universes/worlds." This doesn't mean much, either. If space doesn't exist in that realm, then someone with Infinite Speed (i.e. Still bound by space) wandering in there for a while doesn't make it infinite size. Because if it's spaceless, then it has no size in that sense to begin with.

The realm existing in-between dimensions doesn't amount to much, either. Obviously, aspatial realms aren't spatially related to anything, so our intuitive notion of "A space in-between two physical objects" doesn't apply in that situation. You'd need both elaboration on the nature of its relation to dimensional space, and indication of superiority over it. Both of which are absent here.

But it is not "Spaceless". The quotes say it lacks Length, Width, Height, and Time. But it mentions that it is a space as per this Quote:

Through this extremely dangerous space D floated, reduced to a lifeless corpse. Length, width, and height didn’t exist there, nor did the flow of time, and D himself simultaneously existed and didn’t exist.

So it isn't spaceless and there would be a size which would be infinite based on my argument.

And even then, the non-dimensional realm described doesn't actually seem to be the space between dimensions. The text seems to consistently describe it as "another world," "another universe," and etc. So it seems that, here, it's just being described as one dimension, and D's universe as another, with the "space" between the two being mentioned as a separate thing:

It is the "Space" between two worlds. As per this quote, this is the world where a physical form of energy is generated where two dimensions came in contact with each other:

Following the hoarse voice’s directions for about five minutes, he came to an enormous gate of what looked to be marble. There was nothing beyond it, just the gate. Though it would’ve been simple enough to go around it, D knew very well that doing so wouldn’t allow him to meet with those he sought. He pushed the gate with his left hand.

A terrible chill coursed through his body. His left hand must’ve been doing everything it could to stem the flow. It was power leaking through there. It wasn’t a form of magic. Rather, it was a physical form of energy generated where two dimensions came in contact with each other. In D’s world, it would be a source of destruction.

All his functions froze, and the instant D came into contact with this death and destruction, he ceased all resistance. As his body headed toward death, his left hand sent out a single thread of regeneration to connect them to the real world, while D moved into another world.

It is called a World/Universe because that's how VHD addresses different realms/planes despite them not being a World/Universe in the normal sense. This quote, for example, calls it a World without Time and attacks are expelled between the two dimensions (because D is in his spirit form which is stated in the quotes above to exist and also not exist):

After a few hundred million years had passed in this world without time, D finally ascertained that a group of coffins existed at the heart of a defensive system in an enormous nebula. As he approached, the nebula glowed weirdly, its very light trying to destroy D, but all of its attacks were drawn down the connection to the Hunter’s world and expelled in the space between the two dimensions. It took another hundred million years to reach the center of the nebula, and there at the center of countless geometric patterns D finally saw three coffins.

So all in all even if you call it "Another Universe", it is still a World without Length, Breadth, Height, and Time but has "Space" thereby it has Size, and is tremendously vast to the point that it took D 300 million years to traverse from a random point A to another random point B within it.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

But it is not "Spaceless". The quotes say it lacks Length, Width, Height, and Time. But it mentions that it is a space as per this Quote:

You can't really lack dimensions and still be spatial, so it just sounds like the verse is using "space" in a very rough sense. Not like it matters, though, since D taking forever to explore it despite his Infinite Speed would at best prove that a 3-D subset of the space is infinite, whereas Low 1-C would require significant size in the higher-dimensional axes too.

It is the "Space" between two worlds. As per this quote, this is the world where a physical form of energy is generated where two dimensions came in contact with each other:

Even if it is, it wouldn't be Low 1-C. See above.

 

[RM97]

You can't really lack dimensions and still be spatial, so it just sounds like the verse is using "space" in a very rough sense. Not like it matters, though, since D taking forever to explore it despite his Infinite Speed would at best prove that a 3-D subset of the space is infinite, whereas Low 1-C would require significant size in the higher-dimensional axes too.

But it doesn't lack dimensions, just the 3 spatial axes and time. So shouldn't this be a 5D space which is completely devoid of regular 4D axes?
BTW just clarifying, D didn't exist in the realm physically, but rather in his soul/spirit form. So idk why would you say it is a 3-D subset of the space when nothing going on in there is 3D.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

But it doesn't lack dimensions, just the 3 spatial axes and time. So shouldn't this be a 5D space which is completely devoid of regular 4D axes?

I'll put that aside, for the moment, entirely for the sake of the other point.

BTW just clarifying, D didn't exist in the realm physically, but rather in his soul/spirit form. So idk why would you say it is a 3-D subset of the space when nothing going on in there is 3D.

What is the dimensionality of D's spirit form?

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

But it doesn't lack dimensions, just the 3 spatial axes and time. So shouldn't this be a 5D space which is completely devoid of regular 4D axes?
BTW just clarifying, D didn't exist in the realm physically, but rather in his soul/spirit form. So idk why would you say it is a 3-D subset of the space when nothing going on in there is 3D.

I don't think you can have a 5-D axis without the previous four?

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

I don't think you can have a 5-D axis without the previous four?

fax all the tiers below 1A are like that ,it is stated on qualitative superiority page

 

[RM97]

What is the dimensionality of D's spirit form?

Well nothing was stated except that his Spirit/Soul exists and simultaneously doesn't exist (NEP type 3).

I don't think you can have a 5-D axis without the previous four?

fax all the tiers below 1A are like that ,it is stated on qualitative superiority page

This part? I checked it but couldn't find anything. However, if that is the case like you guys say, then there's nothing more to argue.

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

This part? I checked it but couldn't find anything. However, if that is the case like you guys say, then there's nothing more to argue.

I will just copy where it says it

"fact that all tiers from 11-C to Low 1-A can ultimately be bridged together by summing up smaller things"

So basically, you can't get 4D without uncountable 3D, 5D without uncountable 4D, and so on.
Also, with the cardinal scale, you can't get aleph 2 without aleph 1, and so on.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Well nothing was stated except that his Spirit/Soul exists and simultaneously doesn't exist (NEP type 3).

You said it's not 3-D. So, either:

1. It's non-dimensional.

2. It's 5-D.

The second, you'd need evidence for. The first just makes the whole "D took spent a while roaming the place" argument meaningless, so, yeah.

 

[RM97]

You said it's not 3-D. So, either:

1. It's non-dimensional.

2. It's 5-D.

The second, you'd need evidence for. The first just makes the whole "D took spent a while roaming the place" argument meaningless, so, yeah.

So if the realm is non-dimensional, what would be the tier if there was any specific statement of the realm being significant/infinite sized?

 

[Ultima_Reality]

So if the realm is non-dimensional, what would be the tier if there was any specific statement of the realm being significant/infinite sized?

I mean, if the realm is aspatial, then it has no size, so that depends on how the statement/showing plays out. It'd be 1-A if it's supposed to be a comparison between it and normal reality, meant to convey how much greater it is than the latter.

 

[RM97]

I mean, if the realm is aspatial, then it has no size, so that depends on how the statement/showing plays out. It'd be 1-A if it's supposed to be a comparison between it and normal reality, meant to convey how much greater it is than the latter.

Hmmmmm I see. It sucks that Kikuchi never gave an elaboration on it, just like with most other realms.
Anyways, this is what the cosmology stands at basically:

• Main Universe: Low 2-C
• All the other realms mentioned: Higher Planes that are Unquantifiable
• Akashic Records: Low 1-C

I still have to work on the Light and Darkness Duality stuff but it'll take some time bc I will have to go through all the books, short stories, guides, and even the 15+ untranslated books.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Anyways, this is what the cosmology stands at basically:

• Main Universe: Low 2-C
• All the other realms mentioned: Higher Planes that are Unquantifiable
• Akashic Records: Low 1-C

I still have to work on the Light and Darkness Duality stuff but it'll take some time bc I will have to go through all the books, short stories, guides, and even the 15+ untranslated books.

Yeah, alright. I'll assume this is going to be for a separate thread, later down the line?

 

[RM97]

Yeah, alright. I'll assume this is going to be for a separate thread, later down the line?

Oh yes.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Can this one be closed, then? Or do you still want to discuss more things?

EDIT: Got the go ahead from OP.