Vampire Diairies/The Originals Scaling Fix

[PrinceofPein]

This is Part One of well multiple revisions.
First Let us start with the Attack Potency of some witches/psychics namely Qetsiyah, Bonnie, Silas and Arcadius.

1. Let me start with the woman who embodied revenge, Qetsiyah. She should be straight up at least 5-B during Celestial events like full moon why? because she created the otherside which is practically another dimension of its own which is at the very least as big as earth, which is a very low ball, as we can see the sky in the other side which suggest it is bigger than that Qetsiyah originally created the Other Side to trap Silas, be with him for an eternity, and separate him from Amara. In that sense, the Other Side was simply a dimension that divided supernaturals and humans in the afterlife. In that sense she will be at least 5-B because she could create the otherside.
2. Now for the next one, Silas, He should scale to Qetsiyah because she considers the two of them to be the most powerful travelers.
3. Arcadius should also be 5-B, or creating Hell another worldwide psychic dimension

Finally, Bonnie.
She has quite a few 5-B feats.

1. Created the Prison to trap Kai. Prison worlds are basically new earths created to trap supernatural creatures that are hard to put down or as punishment.
2. Bonnie creating her own Pyschic Dimension to keep enzo after his death
3. Bonnie fighting Cade for Damon's soul

In that sense, she should also be 5-B in some of her keys.
Unrelated to 5-B, but here are some things that needs to be removed from her AP justification.

Capable of fighting and overpowering Heretics, wich are vampire-witch hybrids stronger than normal vampires

Not once did she overpower any heretic alone with magic, she had help or had to take them by surprise

(Much stronger than all vampires and stronger than the Originals themselves after Rayna Cruz transfered her powers to her)

While she is stronger than most vampires, she is sure as hell not stronger than Originals, even Rayna Cruz herself is not stronger than Originals and they can practically kill her in a hit.
Rayna does not have a profile right now, but I will try and get to that.
So that part of her profile should be changed to

Much Stronger than Vampires like Damon Salvatore.

Lastly, no witch in the Originals would scale to these 4, why? They have absolutely no feat near this level. The only reason they currently scale to them is that they are regarded as one of the most powerful witches that ever lived in the case of Dahlia and Inadu. But that is not enough for them to scale.

Agree:
Neutral:
Disagree:

 

[Testarossa002]

I'm fairly certain prison realms are straight up referred to as alternate universes/realities
I really  really think inadu should be comparable to the 5-Bs

I'm not sure about people scaling to prison worlds creation
a bunch of students in salvatore high created a new prison realm
That should definitely be an outlier if we're scaling people to it.

I'm unsure about most things because I can't crosscheck
Rewatched TVD, originals and legacies recently so I have a decent knowledge on the verse

 

[Arkenis]

Yeah creation feats should not be scalable here.

The list of requirements should be given here to show justification.

Creation Feats

Creation feats are feats in which a character creates objects from nothing by means like Reality Warping or similar. This separates them from feats in which objects are created from already existing materials, which would be calculated by conventional methods, or feats that qualify for...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[PrinceofPein]

I'm fairly certain prison realms are straight up referred to as alternate universes/realities
I really  really think inadu should be comparable to the 5-Bs

it was called alternate realities many times which is why I am going with 5-B

I'm not sure about people scaling to prison worlds creation
a bunch of students in salvatore high created a new prison realm
That should definitely be an outlier if we're scaling people to it.

I really hate legacies, stopped at season 3. Never watching it

Yeah creation feats should not be scalable here.

The list of requirements should be given here to show justification.

Creation Feats

Creation feats are feats in which a character creates objects from nothing by means like Reality Warping or similar. This separates them from feats in which objects are created from already existing materials, which would be calculated by conventional methods, or feats that qualify for...

vsbattles.fandom.com

These creation feats were made with their own magic powers, in fact when performing feats, they get nose bleeds and the likes and sometimes faint, just to show that these things can be tasking. The point is Creation feats made from your own strengths scales to you.

 

[Testarossa002]

I really hate legacies, stopped at season 3. Never watching it

Too bad then
The gods should scale to the 5-Bs since they gave humanity magic to begin with
As for inadu, she has some very good feats/statements that I didn't give much thought due to how high it was in the context of the verse
Like the oceans not being powerful enough to hold hollow klaus

 

[ByArrow]

Prison worlds feats are 4-A, not 5-B

And feats for creating prison worlds do not scale according to their normal stats.

And characters like Dahlia, Inadu and Hope definitely scale to these.

Also Me, @Alsotime and @Danny33wise preparing a major revision of the witches' tiers and scaling chains. And once that revision is done, the witch stuff here will make no sense at all.

 

[Arkenis]

As long as they are only upgraded in tier with magic then this should be fine.

 

[Testarossa002]

I don't think it's scalable at all
Prison World requires a bunch of stuffs to create
Gemini witches
Blood of a Bennet witch
Astronomical events
It's not a one person feat

 

[ByArrow]

I don't think it's scalable at all
Prison World requires a bunch of stuffs to create
Gemini witches
Blood of a Bennet with
Astronomical events
It's not a one person feat

It is scalable. They are scalable with preparation time.

 

[Arkenis]

That isn't for stats then, that's pna. They're creating these realms with various items, not with raw magic power alone.

 

[ByArrow]

That isn't for stats then, that's pna. They're creating these realms with various items, not with raw magic power alone.

Yes

 

[Testarossa002]

ByArrow:
It is scalable. They are scalable with preparation time.
Even if they get the Bennett blood, how are they supposed to plan for a meteor shower or an aurora or an eclipse in a match-up?
It's not usable stat-wise

 

[Arkenis]

What is the Gemini witch thing? Was it they needed one to be there doing it with them?

 

[ByArrow]

ByArrow:
It is scalable. They are scalable with preparation time.
Even if they get the Bennett blood, how are they supposed to plan for a meteor shower or an aurora or an eclipse in a match-up?
It's not usable stat-wise

If they have enough preparation time, they can wait for a natural phenomenon.

Generally in the presence of sufficient time, resources and conditions.

And again, this does not scale to their normal statistics

 

[ByArrow]

What is the Gemini witch thing? Was it they needed one to be there doing it with them?

The Gemini coven was the coven that built the first prison world. And no, don't need someone from the Gemini coven to create a prison world.

 

[ByArrow]

And qet needed prep time to create the other side, so that doesn't scale according to her normal statistics either.

 

[Arkenis]

I'm confused, the way this prep is done is via a meteor shower, needing blood from an almost extinct family of witches, and also requires time itself to do the spell no? How does this then scale to their magic power overall? Does the amp stay for a certain time? I haven't watched the series in a while but when they do the spell are we shown their magic to get stronger? And then do they not use this magic to fight vampires and other witches who didn't get amped from the spell?

 

[ByArrow]

I'm confused, the way this prep is done is via a meteor shower, needing blood from an almost extinct family of witches, and also requires time itself to do the spell no? How does this then scale to their magic power overall? Does the amp stay for a certain time? I haven't watched the series in a while but when they do the spell are we shown their magic to get stronger? And then do they not use this magic to fight vampires and other witches who didn't get amped from the spell?

It does not scale to their overall magical power. Only with enough time, the right requirements and the right conditions can they reach this level. Otherwise they are far below that. And if they are drawing power from the natural phenomenon, they get amplified until the natural phenomenon ends or they stop drawing power. Yes, they use the powers they get from this amp to fight other witches and originals.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Too bad then
The gods should scale to the 5-Bs since they gave humanity magic to begin with
As for inadu, she has some very good feats/statements that I didn't give much thought due to how high it was in the context of the verse
Like the oceans not being powerful enough to hold hollow klaus

I just finished Tvd again, would binge the OG next.


Also prison world scales to psychic Bennet, she created one without a celestial event. Cade scales to his own hell dimension, Qetsiyah scales to her own otherside.

Also like I said the legacies do not have profiles here yet. And Dahlia and Inadu would not be accepted based on statements alone especially since it was made by people who do not connect with each other.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Anyway enough derailing, let's just focus on the OP

 

[ByArrow]

I just finished Tvd again, would binge the OG next.

Don't CRT until you finish the whole series

Also prison world scales to psychic Bennet, she created one without a celestial event. Cade scales to his own hell dimension, Qetsiyah scales to her own otherside.

Bonnie needed prep time again. Yes, Cade scales to his hell dimension, Qet needed prep time for the other side.

It is worth noting that Cade created Hell with the power of his death and Cade needs souls to keep hell going.

Also like I said the legacies do not have profiles here yet. And Dahlia and Inadu would not be accepted based on statements alone especially since it was made by people who do not connect with each other.

Legacies has profiles. They scale not only because of statements but also because of feats

 

[ByArrow]

Anyway enough derailing, let's just focus on the OP

this CRT is very badly made and incomplete. So I think the witch part of this CRT should be disregarded, and as I said before, the witch part will be irrelevant because of the revision that we are working on.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Don't CRT until you finish the whole series

I have multiple times lol aside legacies anyway.
Just decided to watch TVD once again in order to revise the profiles.

Bonnie needed prep time again. Yes, Cade scales to his hell dimension, Qet needed prep time for the other side.

Nothing suggested she does, she even boldly said I do not need celestial event, hence how she could trap kai without one. Read the OP, I already said Qet with celestial events is 5-B, since she clearly needs one for it. Oh btw, even though she claims she needs celestial events, she does not as seen by the end when she tricked everyone into thinking she needs celestial event to do the anchor swap spell.

It is worth noting that Cade created Hell with the power of his death and Cade needs souls to keep hell going.

He does not need souls to keep hell going, he just likes feeding on evil souls.

Legacies has profiles. They scale not only because of statements but also because of feats

I mean the Gods of legacies.

this CRT is very badly made and incomplete. So I think the witch part of this CRT should be disregarded, and as I said before, the witch part will be irrelevant because of the revision that we are working on.

Lol absolutely not, stop derailing. The witches stuff are the main part of the revisions. All that I want to address in this part is in the OP, after this one passes, I will make my next one. Now you can either agree or disagree and give reasons for disagreeing.
Incomplete?? Cause I decided to focus on one single and simple aspect. Anyway enough talks, take a stance or you can leave it be.

 

[ByArrow]

Nothing suggested she does, she even boldly said I do not need celestial event, hence how she could trap kai without one. Read the OP, I already said Qet with celestial events is 5-B, since she clearly needs one for it. Oh btw, even though she claims she needs celestial events, she does not as seen by the end when she tricked everyone into thinking she needs celestial event to do the anchor swap spell.

Bonnie still needed preparation. The prison world doesn't only need the power of the natural phenomenon. And Bonnie did not say that created the prison world without drawing power from the natural phenomenon. She made sure that Kai couldn't escape using any natural phenomenon. Two different things. IAlso, if she did it only with his own raw power, then it is an outlier since she never performed feats at this level and had difficulty performing lower feats. It was not enough for Qet to have the natural phenomenon power, she still needed to prep. So what you are suggesting does not reflect reality.

He does not need souls to keep hell going, he just likes feeding on evil souls.

Yes, my bad, I remembered wrong.

I mean the Gods of legacies.

Ken has a profile

Lol absolutely not, stop derailing. The witches stuff are the main part of the revisions. All that I want to address in this part is in the OP, after this one passes, I will make my next one. Now you can either agree or disagree and give reasons for disagreeing.
Incomplete?? Cause I decided to focus on one single and simple aspect. Anyway enough talks, take a stance or you can leave it be.

You are literally making suggestions with the wrong context and not reflecting reality. And the tier you suggest and the feat you use for your argument are at a different tier. And you say that dahlia and inadu's statements are invalid, but you provide no evidence to support your argument.

The only thing you're right about is Cade and Bonnie scaling to cade.

You say Rayna doesn't have a profile, but Rayna has a profile.

Rayna Cruz

Rayna Cruz is the main antagonist of the seventh season of Vampire Diaries. A Shamanic Huntress hailing around the 19th Century, the daughter of Vicente Cruz, who was a member of the Brotherhood of the Five, and was a fierce vampire huntress whose sole purpose was to eradicate and incarcerate...

vsbattles.fandom.com

The reason Rayna scales to original is that Klaus is afraid of her and in her last lives she became stronger than all vampire, including the originals.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Bonnie still needed preparation.

And when was this stated or shown?

The prison world doesn't only need the power of the natural phenomenon. And Bonnie did not say that created the prison world without drawing power from the natural phenomenon.

She quite.literally did though, there was no full moon and no natural phenomenon occurring, so please which one did she use?

She made sure that Kai couldn't escape using any natural phenomenon. Two different things. IAlso, if she did it only with his own raw power, then it is an outlier since she never performed feats at this level and had difficulty performing lower feats.

Creating a psychic dimension for enzo is what now?
Yes that's another alternate reality she created as a newbie with her scream.

It was not enough for Qet to have the natural phenomenon power, she still needed to prep

Where was this shown? We were never shown she made any preparations, what she did preparation for was the immortality spell all we got for the other side was "After that, I created the other side...." and besides I said in the OP based on statements she would need celestial events like full moon.

. So what you are suggesting does not reflect reality.

It quite literally does.

Yes, my bad, I remembered wrong.

Ken has a profile

Not connected to the TVD page, that should be handled.

You are literally making suggestions with the wrong context and not reflecting reality. And the tier you suggest and the feat you use for your argument are at a different tier. And you say that dahlia and inadu's statements are invalid, but you provide no evidence to support your argument.

The videos I linked in the OP are what again? Please open them. I can link more even.

The only thing you're right about is Cade and Bonnie scaling to cade.

I am right about everything in the OP though, and you have failed to prove why not.
Also if bonnie scales to cade, still makes her at least 5-B.

You say Rayna doesn't have a profile, but Rayna has a profile.

Rayna Cruz

Rayna Cruz is the main antagonist of the seventh season of Vampire Diaries. A Shamanic Huntress hailing around the 19th Century, the daughter of Vicente Cruz, who was a member of the Brotherhood of the Five, and was a fierce vampire huntress whose sole purpose was to eradicate and incarcerate...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Not connected to the TVD page, that should be added.

The reason Rayna scales to original is that Klaus is afraid of her and in her last lives she became stronger than any vampire, even the originals.

Afraid of her because....... drumroll She killed his best men at the footstep of a church years back. And he said it is stupid to bring her to a town full of vampires, not cause he is physically afraid of her. After he said all that, he literally went after her and killed her.
Also you claim she becanse stronger than the originals in her last life, I will like you to substantiate that claim. Not to mention, Bonnie struggled with damon. And that is a Damon who is not trying to kill her.

 

[Testarossa002]

Yeah, I don't think cruz is stronger than any original
Can get a few cheapshots in but that's about it

 

[ByArrow]

And when was this stated or shown?

In the video you linked, bonnie says she used the ascendant. and got help from the twins. These show that this is a preparation. Also, prison worlds are a 4-A structure, not 5-B. So this cannot be an argument for 5-B. Also she used her power It would also be contradictory for her to do it under her own power, because she is struggling to achieve something at a lower level than that.

She quite.literally did though, there was no full moon and no natural phenomenon occurring, so please which one did she use?

You know that witches can draw power from anything, right? Can you prove that she don't draw power from dead witches, or from burning forests, or from vampires or from anything? No. And the burden of proof is on you.

Creating a psychic dimension for enzo is what now?
Yes that's another alternate reality she created as a newbie with her scream.

Yes, she did, but we don't know the extent. It doesn't matter anyway. She scales to the cade.

Where was this shown? We were never shown she made any preparations, what she did preparation for was the immortality spell all we got for the other side was "After that, I created the other side...." and besides I said in the OP based on statements she would need celestial events like full moon.

And before Qet created the other side, she went to Amara and cut her throat and took out her heart. And she took Amara to another place

Then she gave Silas a second chance and when Silas refused, she created the other side.

And before she created the other side she was holding Amara's heart in her hand. So before she created the other side, she create immortality cure, she went to Amara, took her heart and took it to another place to use it as an anchor and she created the other side while holding her heart in his hand. She had clearly prepared before she created the other side.

It quite literally does.

The videos I linked in the OP are what again? Please open them. I can link more even.

1. Let me start with the woman who embodied revenge, Qetsiyah. She should be straight up at least 5-B during Celestial events like full moon why? because she created the otherside which is practically another dimension of its own which is at the very least as big as earth, which is a very low ball, as we can see the sky in the other side which suggest it is bigger than that Qetsiyah originally created the Other Side to trap Silas, be with him for an eternity, and separate him from Amara. In that sense, the Other Side was simply a dimension that divided supernaturals and humans in the afterlife. In that sense she will be at least 5-B because she could create the otherside.

The argument you use for Qet is not what you say it is and I have shown above that it is a preparation.

1. Created the Prison to trap Kai. Prison worlds are basically new earths created to trap supernatural creatures that are hard to put down or as punishment.

She did not do it alone and needed preparation. Also, prison worlds are a 4-A structure, not 5-B. So this cannot be an argument for 5-B. It would also be contradictory, as she later struggled to perform a feat at a lower level than that.

1. Bonnie creating her own Pyschic Dimension to keep enzo after his death

We don't know how big this dimension is. You could argue that it's 4-C because there seems to be a light source, but then it can't be used as an argument for 5-B. And that would probably be an outlier because 5-B is struggling with cade.

In that sense, she should also be 5-B in some of her keys.

Only the psychic key becomes 5-B.

Lastly, no witch in the Originals would scale to these 4, why? They have absolutely no feat near this level. The only reason they currently scale to them is that they are regarded as one of the most powerful witches that ever lived in the case of Dahlia and Inadu. But that is not enough for them to scale.

Yes, they have both feat and Statements. Why is it not enough? These statements come from credible people. And where are the scans, where are the statements? You have not proven that Qet is superior to Dahlia and Inadu. And Qet is scaling to dahlia. And qet's best feats were done by drawing power and preparation. So if you are against scaling, tell us what Qet is scaling to. Qet has no feats close to Dahlia except scaling.

I am right about everything in the OP though, and you have failed to prove why not.
Also if bonnie scales to cade, still makes her at least 5-B.

I didn't object to Bonnie being scaled up to Cade and becoming a 5-B. I only said that the other arguments were not valid.

Afraid of her because....... drumrollShe killed his best men at the footstep of a church years back. And he said it is stupid to bring her to a town full of vampires, not cause he is physically afraid of her. After he said all that, he literally went after her and killed her.

You think Klaus would let someone who killed his best men live? No, he wouldn't, but he didn't go and kill Rayna anyway. Do you think Klaus cares more about the vampires in his city than Stefan?
No, he doesn't, but when he heard that Rayna was coming back to town, he got scared and kicked Stefan, one of the people he cared about most, out of town. Why would he be scared to hear that someone weaker than him is coming to town? because she's gonna kill the vampires in town? Klaus doesn't care about them that much.

Klaus went to help Stefan after talking to Caroline. And for Caroline, Klaus is willing to die.

And Klaus caught Rayna off guard.

And I'm not saying that the difference in power is as high as the difference between a 100-year-old vampire and an original. Rayna was strong enough to scare Klaus and Klaus was the original hybrid and stronger than the other originals.

But I think “probably” would be a better rating.

Also you claim she becanse stronger than the originals in her last life, I will like you to substantiate that claim. Not to mention, Bonnie struggled with damon. And that is a Damon who is not trying to kill her.

She's power was enough to frighten the original hybrid. And the original hybrid is more powerful than the other originals. She was also able to kill some of the members of the Strix.
Bonnie didn't want to kill Damon either.

But I think “probably” would be a better rating.

 

[Alsotime]

Don't CRT until you finish the whole series

Not much vampire diaries lore gets retconned by the other series besides like peace so any CRT regarding it should still be fine, and some of their points stand, any scalable statements that could help here are made by people who absolutely have no interaction with Qetsiyah, Vincent saying Inadu is the most powerful witch of all time doesn’t matter because we don’t even know if he knows Qetsiyah existed.

I'm confused, the way this prep is done is via a meteor shower, needing blood from an almost extinct family of witches, and also requires time itself to do the spell no?

Well no, Qetsiyah channeled her own magic to make the other side, although I do agree prison worlds don’t necessarily scale to the other side, they are other complimentary material that planetary plus in scale dimensions are make able in tvd, and Qetsiyah at the verse less should scale above their prep with her talisman because it has magic comparable to a nexus vorti

And before Qet created the other side, she went to Amara and cut her throat and took out her heart. And she took Amara to another place

Then she gave Silas a second chance and when Silas refused, she created the other side.

And before she created the other side she was holding Amara's heart in her hand. So before she created the other side, she create immortality cure, she went to Amara, took her heart and took it to another place to use it as an anchor and she created the other side while holding her heart in his hand. She had clearly prepared before she created the other side.

the prep was purely for the anchoring spell iirc, she needed something that could help keep the dimension stable for thousands of years, if she didn’t have an anchor it wouldn’t have lasted as long but she still had the magical power to create it

 

[Alsotime]

Also Me, @Alsotime and @Danny33wise preparing a major revision of the witches' tiers and scaling chains.

Oh I meant to say this too, the argument definitely can still be made that Dahlia, Inadu, and Qet are all comparable but I think we’d have to find a common feat for all of them to scale to besides the other side creation at first, since it’s just difficult to say things like Inadu < Qet or vice versa without like a concrete scaling chain, and we were still in the midst of a disagreement when it came to that

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I haven't seen all episodes of The Vampire Diaries or The Originals. Me and my brother watched the series years ago when it came on TV but he got into it more (he's also the one that made some of the profiles) but he hasn't been on the wiki due to having other stuff to do and could never fix up the profiles himself. So I can't say much due to my crap memory, and I never watched or plan on watching Legacies so I can't provide points on scaling for that.

Regarding the feats, I guess there valid, if it requires preparation then that should be noted. I'm not really against the update.

 

[ByArrow]

Oh I meant to say this too, the argument definitely can still be made that Dahlia, Inadu, and Qet are all comparable but I think we’d have to find a common feat for all of them to scale to besides the other side creation at first, since it’s just difficult to say things like Inadu < Qet or vice versa without like a concrete scaling chain, and we were still in the midst of a disagreement when it came to that

Dahlia, Hope and Inadu have common feats. But Qet does not have any scalable feats in common with them.

 

[ByArrow]

Not much vampire diaries lore gets retconned by the other series besides like peace so any CRT regarding it should still be fine, and some of their points stand, any scalable statements that could help here are made by people who absolutely have no interaction with Qetsiyah, Vincent saying Inadu is the most powerful witch of all time doesn’t matter because we don’t even know if he knows Qetsiyah existed.

In the same way, we cannot say that he does not know. The witches of New Orleans knew the other side. And given his connection to ancestors and his experience with magic and the fact that he already knew the other side, he probably knew who created it.

the prep was purely for the anchoring spell iirc, she needed something that could help keep the dimension stable for thousands of years, if she didn’t have an anchor it wouldn’t have lasted as long but she still had the magical power to create it

She had to create the anchor to create the other side and she had to prepare for it, so this is a feat she could do with this preparation. And she had this power because she drew power from a natural phenomenon.

 

[PrinceofPein]

This will be my last reply to @ByArrow as so far he does not disagree, just nitpicking and even what he nitpicks are not even proper debunk to the argument.

In the video you linked, bonnie says she used the ascendant. and got help from the twins. These show that this is a preparation. Also, prison worlds are a 4-A structure, not 5-B. So this cannot be an argument for 5-B. Also she used her power It would also be contradictory for her to do it under her own power, because she is struggling to achieve something at a lower level than that.

Do you get what you are saying? Did the Ascendant produce the magic power? or did the 2 "3 years old" Toddlers produce the magic powers? Not to mention they are siphons and do not even have any magic powers of their own. So what does that imply? Yes Bonnie did and produced the magic needed. The ascendant is needed to create a key into and out the prison realms, and geminis are needed to say the spells. So at least make your arguments logical

You know that witches can draw power from anything, right? Can you prove that she don't draw power from dead witches, or from burning forests, or from vampires or from anything? No. And the burden of proof is on you.

Learn what burden of proof is before you make statements. You literally just asked me to prove a negative. ....... "Can you prove she don't draw power" You cannot ask me to prove that, they are called negatives for a reason. If you claim she drew power from things then prove she did. she was not shown or said to draw power from anything and even said she did it without a celestial event. so that is what I am going with not your own personal interpretation which is what is called headcanon btw

Yes, she did, but we don't know the extent. It doesn't matter anyway. She scales to the cade.

And before Qet created the other side, she went to Amara and cut her throat and took out her heart. And she took Amara to another place

Then she gave Silas a second chance and when Silas refused, she created the other side.

And before she created the other side she was holding Amara's heart in her hand. So before she created the other side, she create immortality cure, she went to Amara, took her heart and took it to another place to use it as an anchor and she created the other side while holding her heart in his hand. She had clearly prepared before she created the other side.

As they have replied you, what she needed prep time or was to create an anchor, and nothing here you said says anything about her preparing to create the otherside, just her tormenting silas

The argument you use for Qet is not what you say it is and I have shown above that it is a preparation.

no that is not preparation, "Holding amara's heart? to do what? To show Silas that she killed Amara

She did not do it alone and needed preparation. Also, prison worlds are a 4-A structure, not 5-B. So this cannot be an argument for 5-B. It would also be contradictory, as she later struggled to perform a feat at a lower level than that.

Already proved she did it alone unless you think toddlers who are siphons also provided magic powers, and what preparation exactly? she needed a piece or trinket that has no magic of its own. SO yes she used her own magic power.

We don't know how big this dimension is. You could argue that it's 4-C because there seems to be a light source, but then it can't be used as an argument for 5-B. And that would probably be an outlier because 5-B is struggling with cade.

I could care less, I am following the rules of the wiki, which is why there are "at least 5-B" cause unless we are certain, we do not take a hard stance. If you think they can be 4-C or 4-A, be my guest and create a CRT for it, the prove of those are not in my OP and I am focusing on that

Yes, they have both feat and Statements. Why is it not enough? These statements come from credible people. And where are the scans, where are the statements? You have not proven that Qet is superior to Dahlia and Inadu.

Pleasae provide those feats and statements, that are 5-B, I will wait for you and that will be the only thing I will be replying to.

And Qet is scaling to dahlia. And qet's best feats were done by drawing power and preparation. So if you are against scaling, tell us what Qet is scaling to. Qet has no feats close to Dahlia except scaling.

Unless Dahlia created some otherside, she does not scale. Anyway refer above again

I didn't object to Bonnie being scaled up to Cade and becoming a 5-B. I only said that the other arguments were not valid.

And you have failed repeatedly to disprove them by using toddlers and a trinket.

You think Klaus would let someone who killed his best men live? No, he wouldn't, but he didn't go and kill Rayna anyway.

Oh Actually seeing as he knows that Rayna cannot be killed, he must have seen her die or know about it. So yes Rayna would have died in New Orleans before

Do you think Klaus cares more about the vampires in his city than Stefan?
No, he doesn't, but when he heard that Rayna was coming back to town, he got scared and kicked Stefan, one of the people he cared about most, out of town. Why would he be scared to hear that someone weaker than him is coming to town? because she's gonna kill the vampires in town? Klaus doesn't care about them that much.

Klaus went to help Stefan after talking to Caroline. And for Caroline, Klaus is willing to die.

And Klaus caught Rayna off guard.

Shit, julius must be stronger than Klaus then? cause he literally overpowered Rayna. I wIll really like to see where that statement "stronger than originals" come from cause I am tired of your head canons

And I'm not saying that the difference in power is as high as the difference between a 100-year-old vampire and an original. Rayna was strong enough to scare Klaus and Klaus was the ori

She never scared klaus,

ginal hybrid and stronger than the other originals.

But I think “probably” would be a better rating.

She's power was enough to frighten the original hybrid. And the original hybrid is more powerful than the other originals. She was also able to kill some of the members of the Strix.

She never frightened Klaus, Klaus was annoyed cause you do not bring a supernatural vampire hunter to a town filled with vampires.


Let me quote the Conversation for you

Klaus: seen this before tell me you have not been careless enough to make an enemy of Rayna Cruz
Stefan: why do you think I'm here
Klaus: so you came here to hide to seek refuge in my town to enjoy the perks of my hospitality in the city where my family sleeps and all the while you luring a vicious hound with your scent Stefan:she can't find me in this bar
Klaus: well maybe not under this room but you are aware that she was born in NewOrleans terrorized the quarter for years thrust her blade through the heart ofsome of my best men on the steps of st. Anne's Church she will pursue you until your paranoia and despair far outweigh your desire to live here elsewhere or in Hell she will find you
Stefan: if you know how to outrun her tell me what to do Klaus
Klaus: I will tell you what you don't do you do not draw a huntress to a town full of vampires you do not drink my bourbon whilst lying to my face and you do not dare ask me favors ever again is that clear old friend

Which part of this conversation says Klaus is scared of her physically, he said his family sleeps in New Orleans oh he has a child here btw, and also lots of vampire friends and he said you do not bring Rayna Cruz to a city crawling with vampires

Bonnie didn't want to kill Damon either.

But I think “probably” would be a better rating.

No probably she is not strong enough and has no reason so, Rayna struggled with Damon before overpowering him, fought a few vampires none of which are close to originals in strength and then you claim that she is stronger than Originals? I am tired of your headcanons so I will stop replying you.

 

[PrinceofPein]

I haven't seen all episodes of The Vampire Diaries or The Originals. Me and my brother watched the series years ago when it came on TV but he got into it more (he's also the one that made some of the profiles) but he hasn't been on the wiki due to having other stuff to do and could never fix up the profiles himself. So I can't say much due to my crap memory, and I never watched or plan on watching Legacies so I can't provide points on scaling for that.

Regarding the feats, I guess there valid, if it requires preparation then that should be noted. I'm not really against the update.

Only one of them was shown to have said they needed a celestial event, and even then she was lying to stall time.

 

[ByArrow]

Do you get what you are saying? Did the Ascendant produce the magic power? or did the 2 "3 years old" Toddlers produce the magic powers? Not to mention they are siphons and do not even have any magic powers of their own. So what does that imply? Yes Bonnie did and produced the magic needed. The ascendant is needed to create a key into and out the prison realms, and geminis are needed to say the spells. So at least make your arguments logical

Ascendant is being used to channel the power of the celestial event to create a prison, not just to enter prison worlds. Also bonnie didn't say that she didn't draw power from a celestial event. She just said she was sure Kai couldn't use a eclipse to escape. And as I said, if she did it under her own power, it is an outlier because she then struggles to stop the hellfire.

Learn what burden of proof is before you make statements. You literally just asked me to prove a negative. ....... "Can you prove she don't draw power" You cannot ask me to prove that, they are called negatives for a reason. If you claim she drew power from things then prove she did. she was not shown or said to draw power from anything and even said she did it without a celestial event. so that is what I am going with not your own personal interpretation which is what is called headcanon btw

Bonnie didn't say she didn't draw power from a celestial event. Bonnie had said to Kai that there is no eclipse, which he could use to escape this time.

As they have replied you, what she needed prep time or was to create an anchor, and nothing here you said says anything about her preparing to create the otherside, just her tormenting silas

The anchor is already part of a spell she uses to create the other side. They are not two separate things. I am not against Qet being 5-B, she should only be 5-B with preparation, because she had to both draw power from the celestial event and prepare the Anchor in advance before creating the other side.

Already proved she did it alone unless you think toddlers who are siphons also provided magic powers, and what preparation exactly? she needed a piece or trinket that has no magic of its own. SO yes she used her own magic power.

We are not shown exactly how she did it and we are not told that she did it using her own power. You say she did it under her own power, but there is no proof. She did it by her own power. Why? because she made sure that kai could not use a eclipse for escape. How exactly does this prove it?
And as I said before, her doing it with her own power becomes an outlier because she finds it difficult to stop the fires of hell.

I could care less, I am following the rules of the wiki, which is why there are "at least 5-B" cause unless we are certain, we do not take a hard stance. If you think they can be 4-C or 4-A, be my guest and create a CRT for it, the prove of those are not in my OP and I am focusing on that

You use prison worlds as an argument for Bonnie to be 5-B. And you say that prison worlds are basically a earth. But this is wrong, prison worlds are basically not just earth but a dimension that contains celestial events. And that makes them at least 4-A and so you cannot use that as a 5-B argument for Bonnie.

Pleasae provide those feats and statements, that are 5-B, I will wait for you and that will be the only thing I will be replying to.

Unless Dahlia created some otherside, she does not scale. Anyway refer above again

Qet's 5-B feat does not scale to her normal stats as it is done through preparation and using celesitial event.

Yeah, Dahlia shouldn't scale to Qet. She should scale on top of her

As Nadia says, Qet could not find a way to keep her spells while creating immortality. But Dahlia did. She made herself immortal and managed to keep her magic.

And Dahlia's statements about being one of the most powerful witches in history came from more credible people than Qet's statements.

It was also confirmed by the writers that Dahlia was the most powerful thing in the universe up to that point.

And Qet doesn't even have a feat close to Dahlia without using a celestial event

I rewatched the episodes about Rayna. And I agree with you. She shouldn't scale.

 

[Testarossa002]

Okay
This is rather blatant

That child is certainly in danger and could be taken, and they’re never going to let that happen, so they’re going to stand up to someone who is the most powerful thing that we’ve ever seen in this universe.

Plus she 1 v all the Mikaelsons at once
I don't think any witch performed that well against the originals

 

[PrinceofPein]

It was also confirmed by the writers that Dahlia was the most powerful thing in the universe up to that point.

Again like I said, unless you can show her creating alternate realities like the others she is not scaling to them. Author statements can only be used as supporting feats and not the main one.

• Author statements will only be accepted when they clarify what has been shown or implied in the series itself, and will be rejected when they contradict what has been shown to the audience. Statements that technically do not contradict anything shown in the series will still be rejected if there is no evidence that they are accurate.

Since there is no evidence this is accurate i.e. no feat close to the witches from TVD, this will be disregarded and at most what she would be getting is possibly.

Only replied to that, since that's the only claim you have so far substantiated.

 

[Alsotime]

I said, if she did it under her own power, it is an outlier because she then struggles to stop the hellfire

I don’t see why that would be an outlier, Hellfire is stated to have insane amounts of mystical energy and was able to destroy hell, a dimension of unknown size, we can’t really claim it’s an anti feat

Qet's 5-B feat does not scale to her normal stats as it is done through preparation and using celesitial event.

Where was it stated she used a celestial event for the other side’s creation?

She had to create the anchor to create the other side and she had to prepare for it, so this is a feat she could do with this preparation.

The anchor helped keep the spell up, she could still cast the spell regardless of having an anchor or not it would’ve just wore.

Yeah, Dahlia shouldn't scale to Qet. She should scale on top of her

No she shouldn’t.

As Nadia says, Qet could not find a way to keep her spells while creating immortality. But Dahlia did. She made herself immortal and managed to keep her magic.

This is definitely ignoring the context of the two both wanted immortality in the first place.

Qetsiyah made immortality so that she and Silas could live life together forever after their marriage, like actively live and enjoy the sun with one another, sadly in the vampire diaries world unless your hope Mikaelson or a heretic you can’t be immortal EVERYDAY and use magic

Dahlia’s slumber spell makes it so that a witch sleeps for 100 years, then gets one year of immortality in which they can use magic, it’s not even considered true immortality in the setting, just like some kindve glitch

FREYA: The first thing you should know is that Dahlia is the most powerful witch I've ever seen. She craves more power still. Right now she is like me-- limited to one year of life in a century. But, she wants to be free of that restriction. To gain true immortality. And that is why she will come here--

The only time you could argue she even reaches true immortality is once she links herself to Klaus but you can’t use that as a point against Qetsiyah because before Qet made her spell there was no one on earth anyone could’ve linked too, and we know what happened after she made it.

Even then I’d also argue Dahlia isn’t comparably immortal, since she can still be killed it’s just difficult without knowing her past, unlike Qetsiyah’s immortals whose only counter was the literal cure that basically counters every main form of immortality we see in the series

It was also confirmed by the writers that Dahlia was the most powerful thing in the universe up to that point.

Michael Narducci wasn’t on season 5 of tvd for his opinion to really affect Qetsiyah, not to mention that the writers have tons of contradicting power statements like these, and he himself has a couple of statements that contradict canon and what the other writers have stated, like how the venom works, or stating that the harvest is something that didn’t effect the nine covens in NOLA, but effected ONE branch of French quarter witches despite the fact that its stated in the show that all the witches in the quarter would lose their magic entirely if it wasn’t done, I would take his statements alongside any other writers with a grain of salt.

And Qet doesn't even have a feat close to Dahlia without using a celestial event

Qet’s magical power itself is comparable to a celestial event.

MIKAEL: [laughs] Ah, yes. My wife, Esther, always did love to dress things up a bit. It's fancy witch-speak. A nexus vorti-- a rare occurrence. Something so infrequent, it's almost a miracle. Like, an astrological event.

Katherine: I am perfectly aware that tombstone isn't just a hunk of rock.

Bonnie: No kidding

.Katherine: And it got me thinking, all big spells require a source of power, a recurring element, like...a full moon, a comet. But that tombstone is filled with the blood of your ancient relative Ket-soo-yay or whatever

Bonnie: Qetsiyah.

Katherine: She was powerful enough to create the Other Side, so maybe if you have her blood, you don't need a full moon to drop the veil. Maybe you can do it whenever you want. The thing I can't figure out is, why do you wanna drop the veil at all?

Bonnie channeling it let her drop the veil, and renew all of her magical power, those are all feats Qet scale to, alongside her own like making the other side, the cure, etc

 

[ByArrow]

I will respond during the day

 

[ByArrow]

I don’t see why that would be an outlier, Hellfire is stated to have insane amounts of mystical energy and was able to destroy hell, a dimension of unknown size, we can’t really claim it’s an anti feat

We know the size of hell. It's as big as the earth. And the flames from hell can only destroy the mystic fall. And if Bonnie was a 4-A, she should have been able to stop it without difficulty, but she couldn't and she had to get help from the spirits of her ancestors.

Where was it stated she used a celestial event for the other side’s creation?

And again she needed a celestial event to cast the anchor spell. We saw it when she made bonnie the anchor. Even though she wore a talisman that empowered her, she couldn't cast the anchor spell without extra power, so she used three Doppelgänger bloods. The fact that she cannot cast the anchor spell with her own power suggests that she was channeling a celestial event in the first place.

The anchor helped keep the spell up, she could still cast the spell regardless of having an anchor or not it would’ve just wore.

Yet she could not do it by her own power, she used celestial event

This is definitely ignoring the context of the two both wanted immortality in the first place.

The context is not important enough to change anything.

Dahlia’s slumber spell makes it so that a witch sleeps for 100 years, then gets one year of immortality in which they can use magic, it’s not even considered true immortality in the setting, just like some kindve glitch

They worked in different ways, but in the end one did not allow the witch to retain them powers, while the other both allowed and strengthened them.

Michael Narducci wasn’t on season 5 of tvd for his opinion to really affect Qetsiyah, not to mention that the writers have tons of contradicting power statements like these, and he himself has a couple of statements that contradict canon and what the other writers have stated, like how the venom works, or stating that the harvest is something that didn’t effect the nine covens in NOLA, but effected ONE branch of French quarter witches despite the fact that its stated in the show that all the witches in the quarter would lose their magic entirely if it wasn’t done, I would take his statements alongside any other writers with a grain of salt.

Qetsiyah came into the story in season 4 and Michael Narducci was a writer for TVD that season. The fact that the author has previously made contradictory statements does not automatically invalidate his every word.

Qet’s magical power itself is comparable to a celestial event.

We can say the same for everyone else. Davina breaking Klaus' sire line bond was A nexus vorti. And Hope's birth was an A nexus vorti. And by definition, the creation of the Originals, the creation of the first original hybrid, Klaus' release from the curse, Dahlia's immortality spell, the firstborn mikaelson, the creation of the first heretic, Humans having magic, Killing off the Gemini Cover and thus breaking down the Prison worlds. etc. also count as a nexus vorti.

She also still needed a celestial event to cast the anchor spell, and since there was no celestial event, she had to use the Doppelgänger blood. And by the way, Qet was wearing a talisman at the time that made her stronger.

Bonnie channeling it let her drop the veil, and renew all of her magical power, those are all feats Qet scale to, alongside her own like making the other side, the cure, etc

This feat was not done with the power of Qet's blood alone. Bonnie had to use Expression and Expression Triangle alongside Qet's blood and her own power to accomplish this feat.