Valev Pilgrim vs. The World: Wiki's Strongest

[Moritzva]

Samael (Crossings):

Valev:

Kelpie Wins Anyways:

Speed unequal. In character for both. Battle takes place in Central park. Valev has the high ground. High 6-C used, and nothing above High 6-C allowed. Go nuts.

 

[Everything12]

Samael's first move is Info Analysis, sealing anything passive or thought based that would instant end the fight as well as seal his own Magic resistance if most of Valev's attacks are Magic based, lower his speed to Valev's level, then try and then use his Spears of Black Light to attack from a distance, using his precog to tell where Valev will be.

 

[Moritzva]

Info Analysis gets resisted, though Samael will soon learn- Valev has absolutely nothing to win instantly with in the first place.

Samael sealing the resistances also gets resisted, though obviously enough, deathhax still works and he's got nothing against that.

Now, when it gets interesting, is when Valev tosses Power Mimicry at Samael (The original user, while stronger, could nope resistances on Valev's level, so it'll likely work here.)

These copied powers, admittedly, are going to be far weaker than the original and won't help much in, say, resisting Death Hax. But the important part is when Valev asks:

"Guy, if you have all these ways to kill me instantly, why don't you do it?"

I see this being a more psychological battle, than anything. In essence, Valev would be exactly what Samael would enjoy - lacking in one-shot abilities, a brawler, and an incredibly competent foe who can struggle and fight more than most people Samael has ever faced. Incredibly resistant, a fair fighter, and a fun ************.

So, how would Samael first respond to such?

 

[Everything12]

Can his resistance get past abilities that get past resistance that ignore 7 layers of resisatnce bypassing? Plus if his natural resistance bypassing doesn't work he will likely use his resistance negation which also ignore 8 layers of resistance.

But Samael himself wouldn't back down at a psychological battle, because of his selfish nature as a Demon, and because hes heard it all before from other demons, it takes quite alot to even wipe the smirk off his face, and if the info analysis doesn't work, then he will try and get Valev to talk during the battle to reveal more about himself and his backstory and using it to target any psychological weak points, while using teleporting, martial arts, and his ranged light attacks and light forefields to fight him.

And he would answer the above question with "Would you use a nuclear bomb to take care of a annoying insect."

 

[Moritzva]

4-D. So, in between Death Hax and most of the rest of his abilities in potency. In verse terms:

In very simplified terms, Stage 1 Caelum is unquantifiably above that of typical magic, being the very essence that makes up The Consortium (a consistent space-time in which contains infinite different realms).

—

Now, once Valev has the opponent dedicated to a fair fight, they now have to figure out how to win. Valev could use the copied Crown, but that loop of infinite damage reflection would probably just irritate Samael into using deathhax, so that's obviously not a solution.

Valev would be more than willing to talk, and his Collective allies would provide analytical support, being sure to advise him on courses of actions. With his skill, he should be able to outbox simple light spears and forcefields- the use of clones, stat amp, and Destruction Magic among others, alongside a large AP advantage (2.33557+21 J, Large Island+ for Valev's calc. It appears Samael is scaling above Baseline, in which Valev is around 5x baseline).

So, in a fair, no-deathhax/reflection fight, what is Samael's plan to get around Valev's skill, versatility, and raw AP?

 

[Everything12]

He's not copying he Crown that has a 1-A layer of Resistance to power copying and absorpion, and Samael would likely after having been stuck in a staelmate for a large anount of time Samael is likely to bring out of his more haxed in respect for his opponents strength, he'll start using stuff like his EE Light attacks and Time Stop but that will be resisted if his resistance to them are 4-D, so he will probably after those stuff deon't work use his Death Hax in projectiles or activate his Crown of Wrath.

 

[Smashtwig]

Following to stalk

 

[Moritzva]

Ah. 1-A. I see. Alright, fair.

He must consciously activate revival, yes? So naturally, any time he's about to die, he'll toss it up?

(Additionally, The Crown of Wrath and Deathhax are the only things that can't be copied, yes? His Powernull stuff is fair game, albeit it won't be strong enough to knock out anything Samael has. And when he slows himself down, he literally becomes that speed/his reactions are that speed, but with the capability to amp back up on a dime?)

 

[Everything12]

Yes to all that. Well his Poison is also problematic to copy because of how it likes to eat away at it's user, and his most potent Poison is on the same level as his Death Hax.

 

[Smashtwig]

If I recall, Valev straight up just resists poison, or really any bodily effect. Best way to beat him is to just hit him really damn hard

 

[Everything12]

He never uses his most potent Poison on anyone but his siblings anyway, and the weaker poisons he will only use once at the start of the first phase of the fight and won't use anynore because he will se he resists.

 

[Moritzva]

So-

AP: Valev, by around a x4-x5 margin. So, if he gets hits in, he's killing really damn fast.

Speed: Samael, duh. Well, he slows himself down, but it's still impossible for Valev to have a speed advantage of Samael can just not be slower, kek. I doubt he'll abuse this, though.

Abilities: In a practical sense, Samael. Deathhax is a bitch, and so is 1-A reflection shenanigans. But in an actual, fair fight, Valev has various abilities with cloning, time manipulation, and some of Samael's own abilities to make it incredibly difficult to really scuff him, especially while he has a x4-5 AP advantage. Samael's intelligence-based Precog will help, though, even if Valev is unpredictable.

Intelligence/Personality: Samael is incredibly intelligent, more so than any individual Valev. But his overconfident screwery, wanting to play with the opponent, is absolutely damning here. Valev will constantly be at the receiving end of an information line from The Collective, who will be more than willing to help put a demonic jackass in his place. In terms of skill, they're probably equal enough, though in strategy, Samael is self-crippled.

How I see the battle going: Samael attempts to Info Analysis and Power Null, both of which fail. Valev power copies, and notes that his opponent has a crap ton of methods to obliterate him (based on seeing things too strong for Valev to copy), and questions why. Samael, likely going to his cocky origins and more confident in his ability to win, makes a snide comment.

The battle begins, and Samael's supicions are very quickly revealed true. While incredibly powerful and skilled as a brawler, Valev is a brawler, and fights a normal fight, with stabs and punches. This definitely fits into the type of thing Samael enjoys, from what I've heard, so he definitely won't resort to the big guns anytime soon. Samael will find that actually landing a hit on Valev is incredibly damn difficult, especially one to do meaningful damage.

Samael's precog will doubtlessly help, but Valev's self-invented tactics and unknown magics/abilities will allow him to bypass it at points, being too unpredictable to properly predict with analysis alone.

Now, it comes down to: Can Valev bypass Revival, Deathhax, or the Crown? And the answer is... Yea, no. He can't. Or at least... not in a typical sense.

Valev will, be it with Yvonne's abilities or Eowyn's, learn of his Revival- or more importantly, how it has to be activated before death. Now, throughout the entire battle, Valev will not once use his time manipulation. Simply because, it's his trump card.

The moment he finds the perfect situation, before that revival spell goes up, he uses his copied abilities to weaken Samael's Time Manipulation Resistance and fires a Time Stop. Samael's resistance is very high, but given how many of Valev's abilities are limited in power only by how much mana is put into them, and that he'll have a weakened Samael null powered by his own abilities, this is likely to work.

Not for long, of course. I doubt a time stop would last more than 3 seconds before Samael's resistance frees him, or the mana cost to seal it becomes too much. But those seconds is all that matters. No, the tiniest blip, tiniest millisecond, enough for Valev to take his abilities and slay Samael, ripping the soul from his body, before he could ever activate a Revival. And with Samael's resistance sealing + very potent time manipulation in conjunction with amps and Yvonne's space-time alternate timeline screwery, I think he might just be able to do it. Not for long, but any amount of time, is time enough.

In conclusion, Valev pulls an ORW move and takes advantage of the tiny weaknesses of an unimaginably overwhelming foe. Samael's overconfidence, his tendency to mess with the opponent, and his revival needing to be activated, all working towards a final, finishing blow with a secret trump card.

Did I miss anything?

 

[Everything12]

Samael himself less resists Time Stop and Slow and is just completely uneffected by existing outside it and acting without it, even soneone who has time stop on his level can't stop Samael without using the Crown of Sloth, plus as soon as time is stopped he normally returns to infinite speed to as he says "show off his own brand of time stop" and then proceeds to deal a lethal attack, normally to the heart.

 

[Moritzva]

Ironically, existing out of time is a thing Valevs have learned to counter, as written in the TIC Blog: they'd slap the concept onto the opponent, and do it anyways.

His conceptual screwery is monstrously weaker here, naturally, but what matters is that it's there. And even if not perfect, a second is all that matters: becauss once Samael is truly trapped in stopped time, he doesn't have the 'time' to boost his speed back up again. While Samael's conceptual lacking would usually save him, Valev has a band-aid for that issue, albeit temporary.

Combining Samael's copied sealing, a side of conceptual application (has been used to affect people completely outside of the standard concept of time, with extremely high resistances to such, in it's peak), and a ton of mana, and I imagine the results would be... 1, 2 seconds? Before Samael innately shrugs it off and overwhelms it.

 

[Everything12]

The resistance of Angels and Demons is less they are uneffected by stuff after a few seconds and more the stuff doesn't work on them period, so Conceptual Manipulation that isn't higher dimensional or have higher then 7 layer of resistance bypassing just will not even effect him for a second.

 

[Moritzva]

It's higher dimensional, yes. Though Samael's a tough dude, so even then, he'll probably get rid of it quickly.

But, it's good to know that even in canon, they'll start to break out in 1-2 seconds. That fits what I sorta imagined would happen, and TIC has similar moments when it comes to trying to break the resistance of someone much stronger than onesself.

Just, before we move on, do all the facts as we've presented them seem to be correct?

 

[Everything12]

At what stage of the fight would he use his Time Stop? Also Samael can still act as a Soul, though I don't know if that important.

 

[Moritzva]

Normally he'd spam it, but after leading with Mimicry/timeline precog, he'd figure out about Revival and his other stuff, and abstain from any and all time-based abilities (so Samael has no clue he has them) until he is absolutely sure he can get a clean kill.

After all, Samael (while holding back) is considerably less of a threat, and Samael has no reason to think of Valev as a threat if Valev seemingly has no abilities that can put him down (due to relying on stabs and stuff). Which is, admittedly, true! Samael would be right in predicting that Valev doesn't have any secret conceptual 5-D mind control hax, and given Samael's intelligence, he'd deduce that yes, Valev mostly relies on stabbing people, based on how all his magics focus around it.

He just won't be prepared for when Valev takes out the big gun of 'stabbing people', time stop.

So, he'd only use any time abilities, at all, at the very moment he's confident he can get a kill.

 

[Everything12]

What will happen after the Soul rip?

 

[Moritzva]

Death. Soulless death, before he can use his rezz. The Collective claims the soul as one of Valev or something, best case scenario.

(His Soul Manipulation is very strong, but is only used against those dying/incredibly weakened and cut up. Given Valev's massive AP advantage and Kiri shredding, he can get Samael there in short order. Though normally he'd regen or revive, he'd lack a soul and doesn't have the time to revive.)

 

[Everything12]

Samael is likely to keep his awareness and power when his soul is absorbed, based off previous cases where he was 'deafeated' by being placed in the cycle of reincarnation or by having someone taking in his soul into thenself to either seal it or try and take his power, and he'll likely do he same thing he did then, activate Wrath to prevent any higher powers from interfering, and then do what all self-respecting demon would do, enjoy the buffet layed out before him, and proceed to either take over Valev or free himself and appear in a more demonic form after he's had his fill.

 

[Moritzva]

Worth noting that, once Time Stop ends and The Collective owns Samael's soul, there really isn't a whole lot else to say. Valev may be weak to deathhax and similar shenanigans, but The Collective is a different beast.

Though if The Collective + Valev's alternate timeline precog and power copying tells him that absorbing the soul would be a hassel, they'll favor destroying it.

 

[Everything12]

alternate timeline stuff doesn't really work on Samael based off his nature as a avatar of a 1-A entity who exists beyond the timelines, and he generally unrestricts his speed and activates Wrath the instant the Soul taking succeeds to prevent any high power like the Collective getting between him and his meal.

 

[Moritzva]

I don't see that happening. Once The Collective gets involved, it's just about over and infinite speed won't help. Soul either gets absorbed, or if The Valev deems it too hard, just simple destruction.

But, does Valev get to the point of soul nuking? I think so.

 

[Everything12]

While I would argue Samael isn't going to underestimate based soley on him seeming to just stab people, considering his experience with people who seemingly just punch or swing a sword having one hidden super hax ability, Valev higher dimesnional hax and resistance stopping Samael's stuff and his experience in haxless battles means I guess he does put Samael down before he pulls out Wrath or Death Hax. Even the fact that his Soul is filled with the Posion on the level of his Death Hax probably won't help, so I guess Valev wins.

 

[Moritzva]

5-D conceptual poison in the soul would hurt, but The Collective is a strong fellow in comparison to Valev himself.

Well, in this case... One vote left.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Valev FRA

 

[Moritzva]

Seems safe to add.

 

[Smashtwig]

Gave this a light read, from what I know, for some reason Valev's conceptual death resist doesn't work...? And he only won because it's in character and Sam decided to be a cocky bastard?

 

[Moritzva]

5-D beats 4-D, so nah, no death screwery from Valev will help.

But more or less.