Vados vs Sailor Moon

[Aparajita]

That's the thing. Whis and Vados themselves show you that "hax" or overwhelming miscellaneous abilities isn't all there is to be a godlike being and that they have to avoid dangerously overspecializing, and not avoiding physical attributes.

I don't know what your trying to say or whether you agree with my thoughts or not because I'm confused. but to sum up my thoughts, I just think its odd to say SM wins for having one or two things up her sleeve. Vados is faster, has BFR, reality warping etc.. even if she isnt immune to the time thing, just like with whis,a speed blitz bfr should do the trick, atleast for now since people still use these guys in fights when for all we know they probably arent using their full power. who knows. Also I know it sounds silly, but could'nt vados just continuosly vaporize SM until she like gives up or something or loses her mind? idk (Im talking about the god immortality)

Except... Sailor Pluto activate her time control here (skip to 44 seconds) the moment the Helicopter exploded. There's no assumption that Sailor Cosmos is... a thousand times better than Pluto is.

So there's literally nothing to assume her Time Control isn't instant.

 

[Mister_Death]

That's the thing. Whis and Vados themselves show you that "hax" or overwhelming miscellaneous abilities isn't all there is to be a godlike being and that they have to avoid dangerously overspecializing, and not avoiding physical attributes.

I don't know what your trying to say or whether you agree with my thoughts or not because I'm confused. but to sum up my thoughts, I just think its odd to say SM wins for having one or two things up her sleeve. Vados is faster, has BFR, reality warping etc.. even if she isnt immune to the time thing, just like with whis,a speed blitz bfr should do the trick, atleast for now since people still use these guys in fights when for all we know they probably arent using their full power. who knows. Also I know it sounds silly, but could'nt vados just continuosly vaporize SM until she like gives up or something or loses her mind? idk (Im talking about the god immortality)

Except... Sailor Pluto activate her time control here (skip to 44 seconds) the moment the Helicopter exploded. There's no assumption that Sailor Cosmos is... a thousand times better than Pluto is.
So there's literally nothing to assume her Time Control isn't instant.

Sounds like something out of character(I mean immediately ending the fight using time control), meanwhile vados and whis have a tendency of speedblitzing their opponents

 

[Dekoshu]

There's another thing. Vados' powers do not originate from transforming or wearing different attires.

 

[Aurasuke]

^ Are we using bloodlusted versions? If so then anything goes

 

[Naitez]

Bloodlusted is a pretty bad term to describe this since it implys that the character is fighting with the intelligence of a savage beast. No morals or holding back would be a better one.

 

[Dekoshu]

No conflicting morals or needlessly or irrationally holding back, and I agree with you, Natse.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

I'm confused. but to sum up my thoughts, I just think its odd to say SM wins for having one or two things up her sleeve. Vados is faster, has BFR, reality warping etc..

Vados doesnt have reality warping lol. She doesnt have basic transmutaion.

 

[Aurasuke]

^ Think Vados can pull out stuff from another dimension or something but that's about it. Either that or he has an inventory that stores items magically like a magic bag lol.

 

[Dekoshu]

Are you referring to Whis as he? Or Vados as she? Their voices, and relationship should be very clear. Whis is the brother of Vados, while Vados herself is the sister of Whis.

 

[Aurasuke]

^ Talking about Vados and how he just made a Stadium on that deserted planet as well as food stands and whatnot. But Whis can do similar stuff as well lol

Both of then are RPG characters as they have an inventory lol

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I'm confused. but to sum up my thoughts, I just think its odd to say SM wins for having one or two things up her sleeve. Vados is faster, has BFR, reality warping etc..

Vados doesnt have reality warping lol. She doesnt have basic transmutaion.

Vados doesnt have any reality warping that we know of but she does have matter manipulation/transmutation she recreated the atmosphere of a planet along with an arena now you could say she had the arena stored in her dimension but thats unlikely as as soon as she left whis place they went straight to the nameless planet and she couldnt have had it before because they planned the tournament on the spot.If she did have the materials to build the arena stored though it would still require some sort of matter manipulation to put them together.

 

[Aurasuke]

^ yeah but it wasn't actually the entire atomsphere, more like just a small region where the fightning was taking place.

Most likely she had them stored because if she could manipulate matter she could have just made Champa instant ramen instead of having earthlings do it lol.

As far as I've seen Vados's tier of reallity warping is more of convienience rather than god like. It's sort of like how harry potter can make things appear at his convience using spells, but can't really make his enemies dissapear lol.

I don't think Vados will get Sailor Moon's level of reality warping though, maybe the Super Dragon balls though could. Either way Dragon Ball is more about Martial Arts than magic lol.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

^ yeah but it wasn't actually the entire atomsphere, more like just a small region where the fightning was taking place.
Most likely she had them stored because if she could manipulate matter she could have just made Champa instant ramen instead of having earthlings do it lol.

As far as I've seen Vados's tier of reallity warping is more of convienience rather than god like. It's sort of like how harry potter can make things appear at his convience using spells, but can't really make his enemies dissapear lol.

I don't think Vados will get Sailor Moon's level of reality warping though, maybe the Super Dragon balls though could. Either way Dragon Ball is more about Martial Arts than magic lol.

Whether it was a small region or the entire atmosphere it doesnt matter it shows she has some form of matter manipulation did you also forget whis making paths dissappear and reappear when he was training goku and vegeta?Whis and vados clearly have matter manipulation.And no she didnt have have stored i already explained why above.Why would she create instant ramen?Before meeting the earthlings she didnt even know what instant ramen was.Everything whis and vados have done so far has been casual they havent even fought yet we know nothing about their full capabilities they could have high tier reality warping but we dont know yet.

 

[Aurasuke]

^ Well dragonball is a martial arts manga, high tier reality manipulation doesn't work martial arts very well.

I forgot about that but I suppose even the surpreme Kai has matter manipulation to some degree since he was able to make that large block of random metal.

But either way, he doesn't really have the feats needed to withstand Sailor Moon's level of manipulation yet.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

^ Well dragonball is a martial arts manga, high tier reality manipulation doesn't work martial arts very well.
I forgot about that but I suppose even the surpreme Kai has matter manipulation to some degree since he was able to make that large block of random metal.

But either way, he doesn't really have the feats needed to withstand Sailor Moon's level of manipulation yet.

Dragon ball is a series that has always been evolving it started out as a martial arts series then by z people had the power to blow up entire planets.Now in super we have beings like beerus and champa who can blow up the entire universe and whis and vados travelling universal lengths,turning back time,using matter manipulation,using dimensions,carrying planet sized objects at mftl speeds etc and they havent even fought yet i dont think its impossible that high tier reality warping will show up in dbs maybe not by whis or vados but by other people.

 

[Aurasuke]

^ If that happens I'm betting the dragon balls will play a large role lol.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

^ If that happens I'm betting the dragon balls will play a large role lol.

Maybe or by dragon god zarama who made said dragon balls that have no limits.

 

[Aurasuke]

^ Probably have limits, or everyone is just too stupid to use them properly lol. Most likely they have greater limits. Could be even tier 2-C if plot allows.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Vados doesnt have any reality warping that we know of but she does have matter manipulation/transmutation she recreated the atmosphere of a planet along with an arena now you could say she had the arena stored in her dimension but thats unlikely as as soon as she left whis place they went straight to the nameless planet and she couldnt have had it before because they planned the tournament on the spot.If she did have the materials to build the arena stored though it would still require some sort of matter manipulation to put them together.

Well of course she has very good matter manipulation, but not sure about transmutation. Like turning a human or object into gold statue for example. Hopefully Vados gets transmutation that's offensive and useful in combat. Like Silver Surfer (my personal favourite for examples)

 

[Aurasuke]

lol

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Vados doesnt have any reality warping that we know of but she does have matter manipulation/transmutation she recreated the atmosphere of a planet along with an arena now you could say she had the arena stored in her dimension but thats unlikely as as soon as she left whis place they went straight to the nameless planet and she couldnt have had it before because they planned the tournament on the spot.If she did have the materials to build the arena stored though it would still require some sort of matter manipulation to put them together.

Well of course she has very good matter manipulation, but not sure about transmutation. Like turning a human or object into gold statue for example. Hopefully Vados gets transmutation that's offensive and useful in combat. Like Silver Surfer (my personal favourite for examples)

Maybe she will who knows

 

[Aparajita]

Thread derailing, who wins this fight?

 

[Aurasuke]

For now Sailor Moon most likely if Vados is comparable to Whis and Beerus.

 

[Naitez]

Should be Sailor Moon due to hax but people here look like they're trying to wank Vados.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Should be Sailor Moon due to hax but people here look like they're trying to wank Vados.

most online forums are anti dragon ball, cut us some slack lol.

 

[Dekoshu]

Faisal is right, and it's discriminatory. Here's what I mean. If you bring up other series, they'll be like "OK". If you with a rational mind bring up Dragon Ball with good reasons, flame wars and full of swear words ensues.

 

[Shock97]

Should be Sailor Moon due to hax but people here look like they're trying to wank Vados.

most online forums are anti dragon ball, cut us some slack lol.

This sooooo much. I've never seen a series more controversial than the DB franchise. It's to the point where simply saying your a fan is almost a job by itself XD

 

[Mister_Death]

I don't know, I don't see any wank here involving Vados. Vados/Whis are completely capable of winning even with the little feats they've shown. It's not like the DB debaters are just gonna go like "oh SM wins nvmlol". As far as I've seen my point stands. Vados is Superior to SM sans two categories. If not for the Immortality, she would be speedblitzed. If not for time control, well, speedblitz does matter here. Whether instant or not, Vados is a speedfreak in her verse, and could probably blitz say Goku before he even had the chance to think about anything.


Is there concrete evidence to support SM could allow time control instantly?


Theres also the argument of whether that would truly work on Vados. But as of current showings, it looks like it would, if it allowed

 

[Dekoshu]

And don't forget Mister Death, unlike Sailor Moon, Vados has the sufficient physical strength to hurt or knock out even Champa and the others. In her world, unlike Sailor Moon's, they truly have the ability to hit physically hard enough to destroy whole worlds if they were to be allowed to use only hand-to-hand combat and physical attributes. No energy blasts or "hax". Just pure physical strikes. When do you see Sailor Moon hit so physically hard, even her greatest enemies are knocked out and lose their body parts? When you do see Sailor Moon physically lift anything so heavy and without using magic, her opponents are scared and shown that a Sailor Senshi can be superhumanly strong physically as well?

 

[Otakuzoid]

I'm voting for Sailor Moon via time manipulation, type 4 immortaliy, soul manipulation and reality warping.

Plz don't kill me.

 

[Dekoshu]

Let's get to the point. Sailor Moon is superior to Vados in more ways than one, but if forced to use only martial arts combat and is forced to genuinely physically hit her opponent, Sailor Moon is vastly lacking in actual physical strength. This means no time manipulation and the others. Vados possesses superior physical strength, and doesn't need to transform herself to get stronger regularly (she changes neither her attire nor her physical body to show her true power), but will find something about Sailor Moon being a massive problem very real.

 

[Mister_Death]

Let's get to the point. Sailor Moon is superior to Vados in more ways than one, but if forced to use only martial arts combat and is forced to genuinely physically hit her opponent, Sailor Moon is vastly lacking in actual physical strength. This means no time manipulation and the others. Vados possesses superior physical strength, and doesn't need to transform herself to get stronger regularly (she changes neither her attire nor her physical body to show her true power), but will find something about Sailor Moon being a massive problem very real.

you've got it wrong, Vados is superior in every single way except for SM having Immortality type 4 and a vague time ability(And the fact I find SM cuter tbh)

 

[P.Gyuri]

in Sailor Moon transformations are instantaneous. Also both of their profiles have MFTL+, is vados mftl+ that supperior to moon's mftl+?. btw, why would moon go for h2h when she is clearly not meant for it?

 

[Dekoshu]

Some fighters are proficient in all manners without exceptions, some need to massively more than make up what they lack, including actual physical strength. But for some fighters, like Vados and other beings, they wouldn't have any justifiable excuse or reason why they are not engaging in frequent close combat or in other areas, when clearly shown in it without complaints, unlike with Sailor Moon. OK. So in reality, Vados is superior to Sailor Moon in many attributes except in immortality, is that right Mister Death? Even if the transformation of Sailor Moon are instantaneous, they don't always guarantee victory.

 

[Otakuzoid]

Vados' page doesn't say anything about her being resistant to soul manipulation, matter manipulation or Usagi's ability to put her oponent to sleep for 1000 years.

 

[Naitez]

And besides, to force Sailor Moon to do physical combat, you'd have to basically take away her powers.

 

[Mister_Death]

Is SM Billions/Trillions+ FTL? Vados has shown Matter manipulation good enough for me to expect its reality warping, and meanwhile Vados can oneshot people who are casual universe busters( That 2-C Thing is going to be around for beerus eventually, its only a matter of time) . Nobody needs to force SM to do anything, As I've mentioned, even without feats, the little that Vados has shown, with presumably not even a fraction of her true power, can do all I've mentioned, and for a character with so little feats, powerscaling and assumptions is a must.


What I'm trying to say is that even without Vados using any real fraction of her power, she's shown to be vastly superior to Beerus(less than 100%) who is casual universe buster. Debating character's like Vados and whis, or even Beerus for that matter is honestly futile, as they've, in reality, shown little of their true power. Even goku is easier to debate because we pretty much know all he can do, and him being a universe buster is not concrete, if at all.

 

[Dekoshu]

And besides, to force Sailor Moon to do physical combat, you'd have to basically take away her powers.

That makes sense, and there are already opponents who happen to be genuinely immune to magic, time-based, and soul-based attacks, not just resistant to it. Also, there are opponents who will force their to do things they're not used it to do it, while they themselves have no excuse at all if they are able to do everything, and not just never do it, including physical and martial arts, as well as their superior speed, or even teleportation without machinery.

 

[Dekoshu]

And besides, to force Sailor Moon to do physical combat, you'd have to basically take away her powers.

That makes sense, and there are already opponents who happen to be genuinely immune to magic, time-based, and soul-based attacks, not just resistant to it. Also, there are individuals who will force their opponents to do things they're not used it to do it, by while they themselves have no excuse at all if they are able to do everything, and not just never do it, including physical and martial arts, as well as their superior speed, or even teleportation without machinery. In other words, there are people who can permanently disable certain abilities and it won't return to the enemies at an inconvenient moment.

But for almost ten days, we are almost going nowhere in this fight with Sailor Moon vs Vados on who should legitmately win without further fueling the flame. We don't have too much information for Vados like we do with Sailor Moon. They're both massively faster than light objectively, and can cause large-scale destruction and other area of effects.

 

[DontTalk]

Hmm... so does anyone disagree with postponing this thread until we have seen Vados fight properly? If not I would lock it.